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 Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:52 pm |
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Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Penzance
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I posted on this topic a while ago. The car always starts but if its first thing in the morning or a cold engine, the engine runs lumpy for the first few seconds, kicks out a little smoke and then settles to a steady smooth idle. My query is how reliant is the HDi engine on its glow plugs? Some say these engines will start without them, but as it is continually cold at the moment are the glow plugs meant to improve the start. Does the ecu determine whether the glow plugs kick in on a cold start? Some details on how this works would be interesting! Thanks!
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:18 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 1197
Trade Rating: +3
Location: Plymouth
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The car starting fine tells me the glow plugs are fine. The lumpy bit afterwards is the ECU sorting out what revs the car needs to settle it into the smooth idle u talk about. All is normal. Does the same with mine
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| No longer a 206 owner
Astra H sxi. 1.7Cdti | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:29 am |
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Joined: Sep 05, 2010
Posts: 461
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Somerset
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| apjs87 wrote: |
| The lumpy bit afterwards is the ECU sorting out what revs the car needs to settle it into the smooth idle u talk about. All is normal. Does the same with mine |
My 1.4hdi starts almost instantly in temps currently -5 degrees with absolutely no lumpiness or misfire.........It definately is not normal to have an initial misfire/lumpiness on startup.
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| 1.4 hdi, 206, Year..2003, 100,000 miles
Mercedes, ML270CDI, 2002, 200,000 miles
BMW K1200RS | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 am |
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Joined: Sep 05, 2010
Posts: 461
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Somerset
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HDI (and similar CDI, etc) engines dont need glowplugs to actually start, the g'plugs are fitted mainly to comply with emission controls by reducing the amount of smoke on startup, which contributes towards a lower Co2 rating (which is why my 1.4hdi is only £30 per year road tax)......
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| 1.4 hdi, 206, Year..2003, 100,000 miles
Mercedes, ML270CDI, 2002, 200,000 miles
BMW K1200RS | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:07 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 1197
Trade Rating: +3
Location: Plymouth
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| panason1c wrote: |
| apjs87 wrote: |
| The lumpy bit afterwards is the ECU sorting out what revs the car needs to settle it into the smooth idle u talk about. All is normal. Does the same with mine |
My 1.4hdi starts almost instantly in temps currently -5 degrees with absolutely no lumpiness or misfire.........It definately is not normal to have an initial misfire/lumpiness on startup. |
If it's anything like mine which I think it is, there is no misfire, just a slight drop in revs then back to normal. Is that not what is meant by lumpiness?
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| No longer a 206 owner
Astra H sxi. 1.7Cdti | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:13 am |
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Joined: Sep 05, 2010
Posts: 461
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Somerset
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| apjs87 wrote: |
| a slight drop in revs then back to normal. Is that not what is meant by lumpiness? |
No............'lumpiness' is... 'uneven running'
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| 1.4 hdi, 206, Year..2003, 100,000 miles
Mercedes, ML270CDI, 2002, 200,000 miles
BMW K1200RS | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:43 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 1176
Trade Rating: +1
Location: borders, near carlisle.
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my sisters does this... it will start but once started it's very clatery and lumpy for 5-10 secs. no matter how cold. 
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:16 am |
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Joined: Nov 28, 2010
Posts: 322
Trade Rating: 0
Location: south wales
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it sounds the same as faulty heater plugs, could it just be that one cylinder has slightly lower compression than the other, but once warm it sorts it self out, i think you would have to do a few test to fing out what this is
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| Mark
03 206 1.4 hdi 3 door 187k
02 transit 100 280 196k
04 renault Laguna 80k
09 transit 115 300 43k. | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:21 am |
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Joined: Dec 16, 2010
Posts: 1533
Trade Rating: +10
Location: UK
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what colour is the smoke that comes out on startup?
if its grey/blue it could be that you have a leaky valve letting oil drip into the combustion chamber when the car is left to rest. when its started, it fires up quickly because the plugs are working fine, but then runs roughly for a few seconds because its burning the oil off in one of the cyliners. had this on a 1.9 Skoda once. car ran for years like it though.
if your start it and let the idle smooth out, then stop it and start it again does it run rough the second time? if not it could be because the oil has burnt off 
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| Please Dont take any of my posts as written fact. They are simply my opinion and although to the best of my knowledge true, the information within them may well be incorrect.
Any work you undertake as a result of my posts is done so at your own risk  | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:32 am |
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Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Penzance
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Have had injector readings checked and it has been suggested that one injector is being compensated for, so may go down that route. Still suspect glowplugs are problematic. Once car has been started, all subsequent re-starts are smooth. Had thought of air leak on fuel lines, but car still started after being left for 5 days.
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:33 am |
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Joined: Nov 28, 2010
Posts: 322
Trade Rating: 0
Location: south wales
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air leak mainly causes it to take a while to start but then run fine, it does sound glow plugs, again an injector would do it on every start i would of thought
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| Mark
03 206 1.4 hdi 3 door 187k
02 transit 100 280 196k
04 renault Laguna 80k
09 transit 115 300 43k. | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:07 pm |
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Joined: Sep 23, 2010
Posts: 84
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Paignton Devon
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Very doubtful its the glow plugs, I also run a petrol car and the 1.4 hdi is my first ever diesel so I often forget to check the glow plug light and take the key straight through to start up. Even at sub zero temperatures it starts immediately and runs smoothly from start.
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| 206 1.4hdi & 1.8 Astra Elegance | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:26 pm |
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Joined: Nov 28, 2010
Posts: 322
Trade Rating: 0
Location: south wales
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| continentalgt wrote: |
| Very doubtful its the glow plugs, I also run a petrol car and the 1.4 hdi is my first ever diesel so I often forget to check the glow plug light and take the key straight through to start up. Even at sub zero temperatures it starts immediately and runs smoothly from start. |
yeah the one i got is the same, if you look fo rit when its really cold you'll just see the light for half a second, i dont think they need much to start them, but if one dont work surely it would make a difference????
many people on here have said that the hdi's dont need heater plugs, but i'm thinking thats fine if they all work or none of them work, but if only one is not working could it make i difference, ?????
any one think the same.
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| Mark
03 206 1.4 hdi 3 door 187k
02 transit 100 280 196k
04 renault Laguna 80k
09 transit 115 300 43k. | |
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:00 pm |
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Joined: Sep 23, 2010
Posts: 84
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Paignton Devon
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| mjsroofing wrote: |
| continentalgt wrote: |
| Very doubtful its the glow plugs, I also run a petrol car and the 1.4 hdi is my first ever diesel so I often forget to check the glow plug light and take the key straight through to start up. Even at sub zero temperatures it starts immediately and runs smoothly from start. |
yeah the one i got is the same, if you look fo rit when its really cold you'll just see the light for half a second, i dont think they need much to start them, but if one dont work surely it would make a difference????
many people on here have said that the hdi's dont need heater plugs, but i'm thinking thats fine if they all work or none of them work, but if only one is not working could it make i difference, ?????
any one think the same. |
I guess it might depend on how long the glow plugs stay on, I assume maybe incorrectly that they turn off as soon as the engine fires up.
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:02 pm |
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Joined: Nov 28, 2010
Posts: 322
Trade Rating: 0
Location: south wales
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i know on the older diesel cars they stay on with the relay, wether engine running or not
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| Mark
03 206 1.4 hdi 3 door 187k
02 transit 100 280 196k
04 renault Laguna 80k
09 transit 115 300 43k. | |
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