#1: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:03 am ---- Hi guys,
Recently my car started overheating when driving for prolonged hours. Summer over here is HELL, and temperature hovers around 48 C.
I have gone through the list of typical things to go wrong. So please don't tell me water pump or fan. Everything is in top conditions (according to me and even the dealer).
I even have gone crazy and re-installed the small air dam or bumper deflector that was missing from my car in order to improve the aerodynamics and bring the car to its original (factory) condition. However, it is still overheating, and I presume that this is as good as the cooling system can get.
I've noticed that most of the cars surviving this heat have two (or more) fans like the Japanese for instance. I have also noticed that the dual speed fan on my car is working overtime alot and the air flow is not as good as that of the Japanese ones.
I also read that installing an EXTRA fan is the most beneficial modification for the cooling system.
So any ideas? approval? suggestions? Another fan or something else?
Anything would help...
Regards,
#2: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:21 am ---- Hi Mo,
We have scorching heat in the summer here too.
I have a 1.4i 2001 and it's fantastic temperature wise.
Even with 52 C (!) ambient it never overheats or goes above 92 C
on the gauge, even when stuck in traffic.
What peak readings are you getting?
My advice:
1) Replace the thermostat. Absolute must for a car this age.
2) Drain (flush) all the old coolant and use a garden hose to
thoroughly wash the radiator and engine coolant ways with
pressurised water until it runs clean.
Do not use radiator flush additive or soap.
3) Make absolutely sure there is no air trapped in the system by bleeding
the two relevant bleeding points.
4) Don't bother with second fan, I have one fan and it works superbly.
If you've already done all of the above, there might be another issue
involved, causing the overheating.
Let us know how you get on as this subject is obviously of interest to me.
#3: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: Mr_Cellexe, Location: HertfordshirePosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:23 am ---- if, after the above, you still have problems, look for a product called 'Water Wetter'. heard good things about this under track usage.
#4: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:28 am ---- Hi V9977,
Thanks for keeping up. In heavy stop-and-go traffic it is between 90 and 100, and very rarely goes over 100 but just a bit.
My biggest problem is highway cruising. I know this car isn't designed for high speed and hence I keep it down to only 100 km/h and yet the temp. reads 110 and keeps creeping up. So it's like sitting on a time bomb I feel that I only have an hour before needing to stop the car <<and switch of the A/C in the middle of this heat :S>> and let it cool.
If you are sure of what you are saying then definitely something is wrong with the car but the dealer assures me that its fine. I can go and argue with him.
I have flushed the coolant (was pretty clean)
replaced gasket (there is no sign of white stuff under either caps)
fixed all the leaks
checked the fan (working on 2 speeds)
checked the oil
replaced the water pump (but that was last year)
if you insist that its the car.. then my next guess would be replacing the water pump again .. before replacing the whole radiator (could be blocked from the inside)...
Tell me what you think ... and Thanks again
#5: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:03 am ---- You are definately over-heating.
Mine sits on 80 C for 90% of the time and only creeps up to 92 C peak
when stationary in traffic. If anything temperature should be lower at high
speeds due to increased air-flow through the radiator fins.
When air con is switched-on the fan is forced-on full time, and you should
get even better cooling.
1) Thermostat must be replaced for sure.
2) Are you certain the system bled from air 100%?
#6: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:14 am ---- Before proceeding with the troubleshooting lets compare apples with apples. You are saying the ambient temp. is around 52 C. However, if you log on to MSN wheather for eg it says that todays highest temp for Athens, Greece was 30 while Dubai is 44.
It's not that I don't believe you. It's just that I want you to consider the temp. difference. So whatever you are reading (for ambient temp) add aprox. 14 C to it. That is how hot this region is.
Now .. given that fact .. do you still believe that something is wrong with the cooling system? and not the ambient temp?
and YES I have bled the system so many times that I broke the bolt and needed replacing it.
also for trouble shooting I've REMOVED the thermostat .. so now the circuit is always open fully.
So what do you say?
#7: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:36 am ---- I never said temp here is 52 C today but believe me
I have driven for hours in 50+ C ambient with the exact figures
mentioned.
Anything over 96 C on the gauge and I guarantee you are over-heating.
If you have indeed removed the thermostat there is no excusse for the
temp to be getting that high. Something must be up. Is there a chance
of the ECU over-fueling. How does the engine run otherwise?
Also, is there a chance that the temp sensor for the gauge is faulty?
This could be checked by allowing the temp to get to 100-105 C
then stoping the car on the side of the road and extremely carefuly with a cloth undoing
the coolant bottle cap slowly and the water should be seen slightly boiling with tiny bubbles
emerging from the bottom of the bottle!
Regarding the cap, it is infact a pressure release
valve which lets air escape above 15 psi, this should be replaced too as
the standard mode of failure is stuck closed.
#8: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:01 pm ---- Oooh .. regarding the pressure cap .. I htink you are spot-on.
Everytime I fix a leak somewhere, it appears somewhere else. I'll start with it. and let you know how it goes ..
Thanks a lot
#9: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: Nimminz, Location: Durham, NE England, UKPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:48 pm ---- Are you using coolant and not just plain water?
I'm guessing you are. My bets would be on the pressure cap
#10: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:40 pm ---- why would i use tap water if i am desperately trying to solve overhaeting??
#11: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:01 pm ---- guys ... I've just replaced the cap .. but its still overheating .. and now i have a leak from the radiator itself.
Just like I said; every time I fix a leak somehwere another one emerges from somewhere else. What could the problem be? Head gasket ??
I've checked for signs of white creamy stuff on both caps (engine oil and coolant) but nothing is there. How can I tell if its the gasket?
#12: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:12 pm ---- Hmm...
You've done a lot so far.
If your cooling system is overheating this could be causing
the pressure to rise abnormaly and poping a leak every time.
What about the cabin heater, did you have it on max when
replacing fluid and bleeding?
Was the temp gauge behaviour identical before you replaced water pump?
Could the water pump be faulty or not fitted right?
Is the thin rubber pipe running from the radiator to the coolant bottle unblocked?
What temp did it peak at this time and what ambient today Mo?
#13: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: Geoff, Location: Evesham, WorcestershirePosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:18 pm ---- Its probably the radiator - does it have any cold patches? They do seem to have a short life expectancy, I've known a few now that have failed.
#14: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: Nimminz, Location: Durham, NE England, UKPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:23 pm ----
MohdEqbal wrote:
why would i use tap water if i am desperately trying to solve overhaeting??
Just checking
#15: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:11 am ----
V9977 wrote:
Hmm...
You've done a lot so far.
If your cooling system is overheating this could be causing
the pressure to rise abnormaly and poping a leak every time.
What about the cabin heater, did you have it on max when
replacing fluid and bleeding?
Was the temp gauge behaviour identical before you replaced water pump?
Could the water pump be faulty or not fitted right?
Is the thin rubber pipe running from the radiator to the coolant bottle unblocked?
What temp did it peak at this time and what ambient today Mo?
mmm..Yes I did put it on MAX and bleed thoroughly. I have Peugeot documentations and followed it to the letter.
also checked the temp sensor (just like you told me) and its working fine .. yes same behavior before and after.
I have recently replaced and checked those pipes so I think they should be alright.
my guess is either the water pump .. or the head gasket
#16: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:13 am ---- yesterday it was around 47 and temp gauge went up alllllllll the way
Had to <<stop>> and take a break
#17: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:36 am ----
MohdEqbal wrote:
yesterday it was around 47
Ouch. Give this man a drink I'm telling ya.
Heat like this often causes people to colapse
or go to the hospital over here.
Anyway you've got to sort it out really. Radiator is
up next I recon. Gasket shouldn't cause all this trouble
unless it's so gone that you're loosing loads of coolant
in which case there would be other symptoms as well surely.
#18: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:58 am ---- Defintetly not the waterpump, your engine would have blown by now. I would say that it was just the outside air temp. Does the fan come on when you reach 90?
#19: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:58 am ----
Steve206 wrote:
Defintetly not the waterpump, your engine would have blown by now. I would say that it was just the outside air temp. Does the fan come on when you reach 90?
I have used the pug in ambient temperatures of 50+ C and it
never overheated or went above 92 C on the gauge (see earlier
posts). He is definately overheating.
I think his fan is working and a lot of things have been covered already.
#20: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:12 am ---- Updates...
Replacing the cap did help the overpressure in the coolant system. Remember, I was coolant system parts kept failing one after the other. The last thing was a very minor leak in the rad. and as soon as I replaced the cap the leak is gone.
Now the bad news is .. I am still loosing coolant :S
and as you would all suggest .. I think it's the head gasket .. simply explains everything .. on highway speeds rpm is high and pressure escapes from combustion chambers to coolant .. heating it up and causing it to over pressurize and blow up parts of the cooling system.
and at other times coolant leaks into cyl. and thats why I'm loosing coolant.
There is no trace of white smoke in the exhaust though (could it be the amb. heat?) ... please tell me if my analysis is correct !!
#21: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:14 am ----
Steve206 wrote:
Defintetly not the waterpump, your engine would have blown by now. I would say that it was just the outside air temp. Does the fan come on when you reach 90?
when I run the engine and open the cap .. I can see water rushing in from the upper tube .. pull the throttle cable and you can see more flow.
I think the pump is fine
and the fan is fine also
#22: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:31 am ---- If you are refering to the small diameter tube
which connects from the radiator to the coolant
bottle, there shouldn't be water rushing through
that tube I don't think!
It is for back pressure (air) and vacum creation
to get rid of minor air in the system normaly.
I think you should look into this as there could be a
problem with the radiator. On the other hand, gasket
could well be causing trouble but surely you would see
other symptoms like dribling water drops from the
exhaust or whitish gases.
Maybe ask your pug mechanic to do a pressure test of
the cooling circuit which would point-out if there is coolant
loss from somewhere or the gasket?
#23: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: jacknife, Location: North ShieldsPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:01 pm ---- If you had a head gasket failure, you would know about it very quick, the system is design to run at pressure (15psi or 1 bar) to which water does not boil till 121C, which if your getting temps around 92-100, and you keep getting leaks then something is blocked, and the rad is the first place I would be looking. unless the water ways of the engine are blocked, and I dont know how to test for either, just seems odd.
#24: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: MohdEqbal, Location: United Arab EmiratesPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:07 pm ---- Guys .. after such a long time it turns out to be the radiator .. I opened (in an attempt to recondition it) and found horrible amount of gunk (goo of rust) blocking almost half of the radiator .. so effectively it had to work twice as much to cool the engine .. this explains the over heating..
also water pump was working overtime due to blockage .. and that explains the sudden random leaks here and there..
now I have a brand new (pattern part) replacement which is working like a charm
thanks to you all ..
#25: Re: How to increase the cooling system's effieciency ?? Author: jacknife, Location: North ShieldsPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:06 pm ---- Nice one, had to be one of them, Rads the easy one to fix.
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and bring the car to its original (factory) condition. However, it is still overheating, and I presume that this is as good as the cooling system can get.
