#1: Resolved: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:52 am ---- Hi all,
I have just had my headgasket replaced as per (http://www.206info.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=40386.html)
The work was carried out by a Peugeot dealer and everything seemed hunky dory on Day 1. However today the car has lost alot of power. I have to keep my foot on the floor to get the car upto 70mph.
Its a 1.4LX Auto. When I push the pedal to the floor it doesnt kick down any more and there is hardly any reaction on the rev counter or speed. The car seems ok on the lower end acceleration but the top end is non-existant. As soon as I get past 60mph it slows down dramatically.
In addition the engine is "ticking" constantly through all rev ranges.
Just wondered if anyone had any immediate thoughts? I like to go armed with knowledge when I take it in Would really appreciate any ideas Last edited by deanparkr on Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
#2: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: Andrew, Location: Black Country Ay IPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:59 am ---- Ticking is normally tappets that need adjusting, and the first thing to my mind is whether or not they skimmed the head before putting the new gasket on as it might have warped slightly
#3: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:08 pm ---- Especially as they've had the head gasket off then it sounds as if the timing belt hasn't been installed correctly so your valve timing is slightly off. This would cause your tapping and running out of breath at certain rpm range. The tapping is the sound of the valve being slammed shut by the compression in the cylinder
I would take it back and explain all your symptoms and get them to recheck the valve to crank timing. It's a common complaint and caused by the tech not checking their work properly. It's quite a quick job to check it and they should have done it before giving it back to you. Don't leave it as it can burn a hole in the valves if exhaust gas is blowing past them
#4: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:26 pm ---- Thanks Deckchair5 that seems to make alot of sense.
I guess they didnt do good enough quality assurance on the timing. I'll heed your advice about not driving long distance.
More time that has to be spent out of work to get things resolved! Sad times
#5: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:28 pm ---- Update on this: The garage identified an intermittent fault stored to do with the airtake. They cleaned the air in-take sensor and that has restored my full engine power
Except.. it still isnt running quite right. It seems to be shaking slightly on idle. I can visibly see the rev counter moving up and down. Occasionally when pulling away the revs drop briefly below the normal idle speed before accelerating.
With the air intake ruled out, what other things could cause this? I plan to clean the ICV housing tomorrow. Is there anyting else I can DIY?
#6: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:27 pm ---- Has the valve timing been checked?
#7: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:29 pm ---- TU head gasket at a main dealer = Apprentice gets the job
#8: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:16 pm ----
MrBSI wrote:
TU head gasket at a main dealer = Apprentice gets the job
Darnit! Although I do have some confidence in this dealer, in the past they have been excellent. This particular dealer is actually very small franchise and not like some of the bigger mainstream ones.
As for valve timing. I did mention that I suspected timing (of course it was actually 206info!) but they came back with air intake. So I presumed they ruled that out. Of course it might not have been checked at all I guess.
Looks there isnt really anything for me to do DIY so its going to have to go back. Sad times as it always takes alot of time
I'll put some presure on an answer about timing.
Thanks for your input wise people!
#9: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:56 pm ---- Is this now fixed? What was cause?
#10: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:19 am ---- Well.. its been back to the garage a couple of times now. I have picked up the car now from the garage just now after they checked the valve timing and it seemed fine at the garage and an initial test drive. But have gotten home and now it is ticking again :/
Garage are wanting to replace the MAP sensor next, but I dont want to be in a situation of paying for things based on guess work.
Ugh. Cars
#11: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:10 am ---- To help better describe it, here are some videos of the ticking noise i'm referring to. I didn't have it before the HG replacement. Is it something to be concerned about?
#12: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:47 pm ---- Does it still hesitate and do the revs still drop. You have not ruled out the air intake (MAF) sensor you have only cleaned it; that doesn't mean it is working correctly.
Now the ticking noise. There are a few possible root causes for the noise:-
It sounds like very badly adjusted valve clearances - being set with excess clearance. However I am surprised by your post above as it seems that the noise isn't always there but comes and goes. If the valves clearances were automatically adjusted I could understand it not always being there but this engine doesn't have automatic adjustment so if it is just adjustment it should be there all the time.
I guess there is a chance that poor handling of the head when removed has bent a valve and that valve sometimes sticks and doesn't fully close or is slow to close causing symptoms similar to excess clearance. I would be surprised if an apprentice or mechanic admitted to that!
There is also a chance that when setting the valve timing the garage got it wrong the first time. Turned the engine over and valve met piston bending a valve. I would be surprised if an apprentice or mechanic admitted to that!
The last two above are unlikely but possible.
Finally, any mechanic worth his salt will tell you that noise is wrong. Do not accept them telling you there is nothing wrong. If it is more than valve adjustment you will probably struggle to prove that it is their poor workmanship - you didn't have a video showing what your engine sounded like before you had the work done. Last edited by kandlbarrett on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
#13: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:21 pm ---- Thanks for your thoughts kandlbarrett. That is most helpful.
The idle and rev dropping happens alot less now, the garage are indeed ordering a new MAP sensor. When I bring the car in for that i'll push alot more for an answer on the ticking.
I have already demonstrated the ticking noise to someone at the garage who admitted it didn't sound right. However, on my last visit I picked the car up at closing time and wasn't able to speak to someone in the know.
I should be heading back in a few days. I'll talk to them about valve clearances and see what they say. I'll be most annoyed if they brush it off, noting that I raised it immediately afterwards, the same day that the engine was ticking and have email correspondence to that effect.
Perhaps I should have just stuck with an oil leak with the old head gasket instead! The saga continues!
#14: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:15 pm ---- I have thought about it a little more and the could be cam belt tensioner bearing. I don't think it is the tensioner but the sound isn't especially clear on the video and neither can i move my head around the engine to get a better idea of where it is coming from.
It isn't always guareantee it but with the engine on idle you can remove the oil filler cap and listen for the sound being louder; if it is significantly so then that re-inforces my thought that it is something in the valve train.
The best mechanic at the dealership should have enough experience with these engines to have a very good idea wht it is in a few minutes.
#15: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: PoppyChild, Location: LancsPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:06 am ---- My car makes that noise too (also 1.4LX auto) I'd not had it long before getting a new head gasket so just presumed it was normal I've also noticed no kickdown but because I'd not gone near the motorway til a while after having it done I didn't even link the 2 til I just read that.
I'll mention it now when it goes for it's new PS pump.
Glad I found this place, I managed to install my own radio properly a couple of days ago too thanks to posts here (yay me haha)
#16: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:31 pm ----
PoppyChild wrote:
My car makes that noise too (also 1.4LX auto) I'd not had it long before getting a new head gasket so just presumed it was normal I've also noticed no kickdown but because I'd not gone near the motorway til a while after having it done I didn't even link the 2 til I just read that.
I'll mention it now when it goes for it's new PS pump.
Glad I found this place, I managed to install my own radio properly a couple of days ago too thanks to posts here (yay me haha)
This place is awesome when it comes to 206 and cars in general. I have learnt tons over the years on this forum.
Let us know how you get on :). I've got mine booked for next week.
#17: Re: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: Renks26, Location: CheshirePosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:28 pm ---- I'm having exactly the same problem!!
I posted up a new thread incase the title for the noise problem caught anyone's eye.
#18: Re: Resolved: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:04 am ---- Well thanks for all the help everyone! The issue is now resolved and as per earlier advice, adjusting the valve clearances has solved the tapping noise.
In addition replacing the MAP sensor appears to have solved the acceleration problem as well.
With a oil service to round it off the 206 is back to normality.
So for anyone experiencing tapping like in the video shown previously these are the things that got me going :).
Thanks for everyone pointing out what I needed to get done, very helpful
#19: Re: Resolved: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: Fifer, Location: FifePosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:09 pm ---- I thought these had auto adjusters for the valves guess that's something else I have learned. Are all 206 on manual valve clearances or do some have auto adjusters?
#20: Re: Resolved: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: SteveTDCi, Location: StamfordPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:38 pm ---- Glad you got it sorted, but £205 to change the disc's and pads and a further £37 to fit a map sensor.... Ouch
#21: Re: Resolved: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:02 pm ---- deanparkr: nice to have it running and sounding right. Don't worry about people suggesting pads and discs at £205 is expensive. It is only expensive if you could do the work yourself and then you could have saved £130 - £140. If you could do it yourself you could have saved all the labour charges and paid less for the components.
The oil and filter change is a 10,000 mile task and should have been done when they did the head gasket, if they did it again then it was unnecessary though I do note that they have charged you for a filter but have not charged for oil! They may argue that there was still some water in the engine from the head failure so they needed to change the oil again. It is unlikely but now it's done you can't prove it.
Doesn't that evening class now start to look affordable when you could have done this yourself and saved £250 on this bill alone?
Doing the head gasket would probably take more than an evening class can give but this basic service is easy, even the pads and discs, once you have the basic skills and some confidence.
fifer: I don't know about the 16V engines but the !.4 8V is old fashioned feeler gauges and set the gap.
#22: Re: Resolved: Lack of power after headgasket repair Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:46 pm ---- Yeah its great to have it running normally. The oil change was done as I was approaching the annual change and just thought might as well do it at the same time.
I'm happy with the pricing, after all I couldnt do it myself and would much prefer the expertise of a garage, espcially with things like brakes.
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Would really appreciate any ideas 
I've also noticed no kickdown but because I'd not gone near the motorway til a while after having it done I didn't even link the 2 til I just read that. 
