#1: wishbone needs replacing? Author: karimali831, Location: EnglandPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:59 am ---- After having my tyres replaced and bolted on I noticed the front wheel can tilt left and right, could it be anything else apart for the wishbone that needs replacing and is it expensive to change? Probably explains why the ESP flashes on the dash all the time when having fast starts, was hoping it was because of the no tread on my old tyres, fix 1 problem just to find the next, gutted!
#2: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: Big_Rich180, Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 am ----
karimali831 wrote:
After having my tyres replaced and bolted on I noticed the front wheel can tilt left and right, could it be anything else apart for the wishbone that needs replacing and is it expensive to change? Probably explains why the ESP flashes on the dash all the time when having fast starts, was hoping it was because of the no tread on my old tyres, fix 1 problem just to find the next, gutted!
Welcome to Peugeot ownership.
#3: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: Mikey2uk, Location: StevenagePosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:23 am ---- Could be wheel bearing that needs changing
#4: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: dj71, Location: durham ukPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:37 am ---- i just got 2 wishbones from dcp at £34 each
#5: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:54 am ----
dj71 wrote:
i just got 2 wishbones from dcp at £34 each
Had mine replaced under Peugeot 3 year manufactures warranty back in 2005 & there still on the car now.
Buy cheap = buy twice
#6: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: Seabook, Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:49 am ----
MrBSI wrote:
dj71 wrote:
i just got 2 wishbones from dcp at £34 each
Had mine replaced under Peugeot 3 year manufactures warranty back in 2005 & there still on the car now.
Buy cheap = buy twice
buy twice is already very generous.
Adam replace the wishbone 3 or 6 times within a yr
#7: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: gaffa786, Location: 2 Places at oncePosted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:47 pm ---- if the wishbone needs replacing you will be able to tell while driving the car. this happened to me and the car was stupidly dangerous to drive. when you break it would turn one way and when you accelerate it will turn the other way. bit scary as you don't know if your going to die while going left or right
if the wishbone needs replacing you will be able to tell while driving the car. this happened to me and the car was stupidly dangerous to drive. when you break it would turn one way and when you accelerate it will turn the other way. bit scary as you don't know if your going to die while going left or right
I could only tell when having a quick start, it wasn't nothing as major as yours but replaced mine today anyway and tracking done also, now has better handling and distinguish the flashing ESP
It only takes a slight imperfection in the cast to weaken the structural integrity by a long way. One of these goes at speed and you are fubarred... Go for OEM or lemforder - sure they are more expensive, but at least you won't shat yourself every time you hit a pot hole...
#10: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kenny16m, Location: LlantrisantPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:57 pm ---- Im changing these things 4/5 times a year, any idea what i can do, ive had oem parts one set lasted me 2 years now my other set, only lasted me 3 months, now just doing cheap as cant keep on with this, are there anyother things that can cause these things to go?
#11: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: Seabook, Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:59 pm ---- how low is your car?
#12: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kenny16m, Location: LlantrisantPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:07 pm ---- Normal, car totally standard
#13: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: Seabook, Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:14 pm ---- unless you keeping hitting kerb and pothole at speed otherwise i can't see why that happen?
mine was fine for the past 4-5 yrs
#14: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:15 pm ---- Something doesn't sound right here. When you say they are not lasting - I assume you are talking about the ball joint? Surely they cannot be breaking? Otherwise it can only be the bushes and the simple answer to that is to fit poly bushes. Failing that I would check the front subframe for defects, but I really can't see that being the case unless the car has been in the mother of all prangs...
#15: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kenny16m, Location: LlantrisantPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:20 pm ---- Its the ball joints at fall all the time, every one i change the actuall bushes are fine,
Its always the ball joints that start to knock,
The front sub seams to be fine, had the car 6 years, only had problems the last say 18 months
#16: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:04 pm ---- Wow 3/4 times a year!! I thought I was bad and I've had 2 sets in 4years
#17: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:03 pm ---- This is one of the very worst things about the 206 - tha damn ball joints. I am very worried that having just spent ages bushing my bones (how wrong does that sound) that the ball joints will fail after a few miles.
But I have used lemforder stuff without any problems... so I am hoping for the best. Failing all else - go all out and get some rose jointed arms
#18: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: unstabletable, Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:02 pm ---- Not only that, its a hell of a job. I'd spend the extra and buy OEMs and see if they last - I did a LOT of reading about middle/low quality ones, and I didn't fancy doing the job again anytime soon - so I went for £120 set from Peugeot.
#19: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kenny16m, Location: LlantrisantPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:41 pm ---- Ive done 2 sets from pug, both oems one set lasted about 18 months the last set last about 3, problem is, is that it is messing up my tyres on the inside egdes, tracking is fine, but every time get that done they say ball joints a Fubbered and they show me, im just gutted,
Any one point me in the right direction for the most robust
#20: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:04 pm ---- Lemforder... dont let the fact that Euro Car Parts import them put you off. They have nothing to do with it.
PLUS... think about main dealer. When have Peugeot made wishbones? They will be off the same production line as those at a parts dealer. Save the really sh*t ones - they are all the same.
#21: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: gazza82, Location: South BucksPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:55 pm ---- carparts4less.co.uk are actually ECP .. but internet only ... and about 20% savings ...
or you could try mister-auto.co.uk ... they do good branded parts too like febi Bilstein, TRW, Lemforder, Delphi ... not so sure about Moog or Bolk parts!
#22: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kenny16m, Location: LlantrisantPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:19 pm ---- thanks guys ill have a goood look now
#23: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kenny16m, Location: LlantrisantPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:31 pm ---- mister-auto.co.uk have the cheapest Lemforder ones at £62 i guess lemforder are the best then?!?!?
#24: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: gazza82, Location: South BucksPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:47 am ---- Best are the ones that last longest ...
#25: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:23 pm ---- Good quality after part manufacturers are Delphi and Quinton Hazel (QH)
I have just bought a pair of QH for my daughters 206 cost £28ea (40% discount to me) + VAT . Fairly easy to do and took about 2hr30 from opening the garage door to car test driven, all tools put away and finished washing my hands. Never done it before and learnt a few trick along the way and think I could take 30 - 45 mins off that for a pair now.
1) It is harder than the Haynes manual says.
2) Fitting spring clamps helps but isn't the total solution as you still need to raise the wheel more than spring clamps achieve to align the new arm. A little bit "heath Robinson" but i put a jack under the anti-roll bar drop link and jacked under that. Raising the suspension in this way allows the front bolt to clear the drive shaft and the two pivot bolts bushes to be relatively easily aligned for fitting the bolts.
3) Forget about the silly lever method to pop the ball joint from the hub. Just disc cut the arm in half near the ball joint. All the tension is gone and so easy to remove. may be easier if you have an assistant but i found it impossible doing this on my own.
4) When refitting the arm push it almost home and fit the ball joint before fitting the pivot bolts. Fitting pivot bolts first puts a lot of tension in the arm - one slip (well maybe not the first but definitely the second) trying to line up the ball joint and the rubber boot around the joint gets split and life of wishbone instantly reduced to a few months.
5) BEFORE FITTING - carefully remove the top clip holding the rubber boot on the ball joint and put in more grease - the manufacturers are really cheap on this!
Note: I would be VERY surprised if you could polybush this setup as there is quite a lot of flex in the bushes (not ball joint) that MUST happen for the bottom arm to pivot.
FINAL NOTE - PREMATURE FAILURE: There should be a small metal heat shield that fits onto the ball joint and prevents the heat from the brakes radiating onto the ball jointand rubber cover. If that heat shield is missing it could be the cause of your premature failures. Last edited by kandlbarrett on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
#26: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:50 pm ---- "Just disc cut the arm in half near the ball joint. "
Yup - cuz we've all got an angle grinder kicking around...
Er... and whilst I think point 4 is a good observation, I have to interject into your polybush statement. If you have uprated suspension, this flex requirement is reduced and therefore standard bushes will actually cause more of a problem and put undue pressure on the rest of the setup. This is true of any car. So - poly bush not such a good idea for standard car, but more of a requirement for uprated. Feel free to couterclaim, but I think you will have a lot of opposition here
Sorry - not wanted to stir, but you cant have people fitting uprated suspension on standard bushes. I have always done the bushes before anything - same goes for engine. More power - more flex. You loose performance. This is no different for suspension.
And those SOAB heat shields only work their way loose and rattle after a few miles...
#27: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:13 pm ---- I fully understand your statement about polybushes but the front suspension arms on a 206 don't pivot in the normal manner. The pivot bolts, if you can call them that, are fitted vertically rather than horizontally. It is the flex in the bush that allows the arm to pivot not a rotating action on the axis of the bolt.
I have checked and am corrected - poly bush kits exist - but my above statement is correct; the pivot of the arm is not achieved in the conventional manner on a 206. The OPs car is on standard suspension and not lowered. In that case I would be concerned that the poly bushes would be over worked and not last any longer than the original part. On stiffened suspension yes a good option but on standard suspension I wouldn't rush to do it.
I also note that the wear part in this case is the ball joint so, back to original reason for this post, I suspect one of four things: -
1) The fitter is damaging the ball joint rubber cover when they fit them - easily done.
2) Cheap, poor quality imported parts - the internet has allowed the market in cheap parts to thrive - people eventually learn that quality comes at a price.
3) Lack of grease from new under the rubber cover - easily rectified when fitting.
4) Heat shield is missing and heat is destroying the rubber cover. Grease escapes, dirt gets in and trashed in a few months. Buy a new one.
Finally, I do thank you for correcting me on poly bushes and these cars. I have been away from mechanics for nearly 25 years (it was my trade) and clearly compounds have moved on. 25 years ago I would be surprised to find a rubber bush survive this design for more than 10,000 miles let alone a poly.
#28: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:40 pm ---- I agree completely, the vertical design is a poor one, but the choice of French suspension components all over! And the bushes don't last that long and I think for manufacturers to state that poly bushes last longer would be foolish, but that said, most who fit them are likely to renew their suspension every 20-30k anyway, so I doubt it is of concern.
And the ball joints.. well.. anything that could potentially save them is a bonus! Inevitably, the ball joints go long before the bushes have too much play. Therefore new wishbones are on the scene long before the bushes give any grief!!
I think someone should market a 206 wishbone with changable ball joints (sorry Seabook - that was your idea first!), but speaking for this site alone, they would make a killing...
#29: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:08 am ---- If you think front suspension on the 206 is poor go to alfaowner.com and start reading the threads on creaking, clonking short lived suspension on the 147 / 156 / GT section. Then you will know what short lived suspension is and that design is a thoroughbred (read fragile?) true double wishbone arrangement. Even the antiroll bar bushes can be rattling in 20k and you have to lower the subframe to change those!
Like people here those on alfaowner (I have 3 Alfas at the moment) are learning that cheap imports mean do it twice. Most ebayers seems to start from the point that if you can buy parts cheap then the expensive parts sellers are just ripping you off. That is not the case - the cheap imports are just that; cheap low quality built to a price.
When it comes to after market suspension parts buy QH, Delphi or TRW and you won't go far wrong and will save money over the main dealer prices.
Becuase I am now once again repairing cars to boost my income I am lucky and get trade discount so I get the listed brands -40% and that almost matches the cheap fleabay parts.
The other issues with cheap suspension components is obviously safety but also your front tyres are often almost knackered before you realise the new parts have failed again. Add the price of your tyres and re-tracking to the price of your cheap parts and they aren't so cheap anymore.
#30: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:24 am ---- Genuine Peugeot wishbones fitted to my 206 under Peugeot manufacturers warranty back in 2005 & there still on the car now some 7 years / 70k miles later.
Genuine Peugeot wishbones are around £120 each, id happly pay that for replacements if / when needed.
Over the years i've seen that 95% of pattern parts are just not worth bothering with as there a waste of both time & money.
Doing the job right the first time saves money in the long run.
#31: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:27 am ---- "Genuine Peugeot wishbones fitted to my 206 under Peugeot manufacturers warranty back in 2005 & there still on the car now some 7 years / 70k miles later."
You lucky bast.....
#32: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:29 am ----
SinfulDesignCom wrote:
You lucky bast.....
Drop links where replaced at the same time & there still perfectly fine as well
3) Forget about the silly lever method to pop the ball joint from the hub. Just disc cut the arm in half near the ball joint. All the tension is gone and so easy to remove. may be easier if you have an assistant but i found it impossible doing this on my own.
It isn't impossible but an absolute pain, easily the hardest part of the job as you need four hands (especially when refitting), for anyone doing this job I'd certainly have a second pair of hands for it.
kandlbarrett wrote:
5) BEFORE FITTING - carefully remove the top clip holding the rubber boot on the ball joint and put in more grease - the manufacturers are really cheap on this!
I'd also recommend doing this - get some good multipurpose grease and add to what the manufacturer dolloped on it. It could mean the difference between premature wear and not.
Let us know how you get on.
#34: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:32 pm ---- Refitted on my own with just two hands.
Put the arm into the subframe most but not quite all the way.
Locate the balljoint pin in the hub - as the arm isn't fully home in the hub you won't be fighting the spring effect that the rubbers cause.
Fit but don't tighten the pinch bolt.
Carefully jack under the antiroll bar drop link as that will raise the suspension and allow final alignment of the bushes in the subframe and with only small rather than copius cursing. This jacking also allows the front subframe / wishbone bolt to slide past the drive shaft.
Time will tell if jacking the drop link has shortened the life of those link ball joints.
#35: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:11 pm ---- The above method will work fine on stock bushes - try doing that with uprated bushes without swearing..
But good tips all the same. I'm still a fan of the lever method. Job can be a guaranteed 30 minutes every time... Last edited by SinfulDesignCom on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
#36: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: unstabletable, Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:14 pm ---- ...rather than the 3 hours and about 1/2 a stone of sweat it took me!
#37: Re: wishbone needs replacing? Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:47 am ---- QH arms had moly (horrible but good black grease) inside the rubbers. So not sure if a general purpose grease is as good for the components as a moly would be.
I took off both clips and completely removed the boot to lube mine. I am not sure I would recommend that to everyone though as the bottom clip is quite sharp and feels like it could easily pierce the boot when you put it back.
It did allow me to get lots of grease on the joint and right into the actual area of where the wear would occur. I would do that again myself but anyone else trying it needs to be aware of the risk.
I would also be tempted to grind (file for those without a grinder) the first 5-8mm of the bolts into a slight taper. I found getting the bolts in isn't too much of a problem it is getting the last bit of the bush to line up with the hole in the bottom of the subframe that is hard so the bolt doesn't come out the bottom but just comes up against the subframe. I am not advocating driving the bolt through and wrecking the thread but once partly in you can often apply downward pressure on a ratchet and turning the bolt at the same time it will pull itself through on it's own thread. I didn't do that but think it would help. Just make sure you coat the exposed part with coppa slip or paint as you have removed any anti rust coat on the ground part of the thread.
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