#1: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:51 pm ---- Bought myself an absolute stunner of a 180 with full Pug history and one owner and now tarting up for the season - starting with the front suspension. Will keep track of it on here detailing what and when I do it and any issues etc that I may befall. Previously a Citroen mechanic, now reliving my past career, but after day one - I am in a lot of pain.. good times. Right - here goes with the first day;
The token before shots - not too interesting, but has to be done to appreciate the work when done;
All parts for the job now sourced from main dealer - every nut, every bolt from roll bar to pinch bolt. Also scored some Super Pro bushes for wishbones and ARB.
Also got some lovely lemforder wishbones - arguably the best short of going all out on group a stuff. First job was to remove the OEM bushes and replace with the poly jobs (using the 0.5deg camber offset);
Then came to removing any surface corrosion on the subframe and testing enamel - all came out fine once dried;
Then did a bit of a clean up - enameled the gearbox outer all ready for stripping out the components for next time;
So far so good. Any comments or suggestions - please feel free to post.
Heres to the upcoming season Last edited by SinfulDesignCom on Sun May 13, 2012 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
#2: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:08 pm ---- good job...
so what's your plan then?
#3: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:14 pm ---- Cheers Seabook - plan is to put all my knowledge of previous GTi into this puppy. My standard GTi was my first 206 so was a learning curve - now I know what I am doing I am doing it all again!! But on a lower mileage and newer car.
Idea is to track it this season and get everything set up properly with intention of racing next year. Probably go stock hatch as been there before and don't want a 2.5k peugeot to become a black hole for my wallet - as much as I love it
#4: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:01 pm ---- Nice. Did you change only outter side bushes of brand new wishbone for just 0.5 camber setting ?
#5: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:03 pm ---- Are you actually planning on tracking is this season? Will have to work quick to get it done for then goodluck with it though but I guess 180s already have a lot of the parts already there will be interesting to see how it comes out
#6: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:42 pm ----
Schumi wrote:
Nice. Did you change only outter side bushes of brand new wishbone for just 0.5 camber setting ?
Nice. Did you change only outter side bushes of brand new wishbone for just 0.5 camber setting ?
Yes - they do either standard replacement or the offset. You can choose how to position the offset bushes depending on the intended use. If you look at the way in which it works - the rear kicks the bottom of the strut out - thus affecting the camber.
You can counteract this with adjustable top plates as well, but I want to get a small amount of "pre-adjustment" as well as the top-plates I will be using. Hope that makes some sense.
And yes... have got a lot to do - but car is not being relied on as transport, i can work on it whenever. Everyone hope for some decent weather soon Last edited by SinfulDesignCom on Sun May 20, 2012 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
#8: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Icetto, Location: Cape TownPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:16 am ---- Goodluck with the project.
I will be keeping an eye on this project
#9: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project **UPDATED 20th MAY** Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:26 pm ---- Been a good weekend so managed to get a fair bit done - although I am dangerous high on chemical fumes, courtesy of oil resistant enamel, waxoyl underseal, primer and hammerite sealer. Still - the weekend started out by foolishly removing the inner arch, after which my OCD kicked in noticing a few areas of surface rust.. hmmm, I wonder what's behind your arch liners viewers
This is what I started with - surface corrosion highlighted in red;
The worst area was that shown on the right - shown below in more detail. Is only surface rust, nothing to write home about;
Note to self, when removing lower arm bolts, remove driveshaft first so bolt does not total driveshaft boot - DOH!
Then got preparing and painting. Everything below the mid point is undersealed and this was still tip top so required no work. The worst part - shown above - got rubbed down completely, primed, painted and then waxoyl'ed to prevent the same happening. Same treatment for the other parts, but without underseal. Difficult to do this wihtout your loaf buried in the arch - especially the top strut mount area; hence the aforementioned high feeling.
With everything done and dried, I then fitted the new enameled wishbone complete with poly bush using new bolts, nuts and washers and threadlock to 104ft/lb torque... and without ait tools this equates to feet on 1/2in bar and pushing against your other 206 parked next to the 180. Then had a bit of a clean and here is finished result... Long weekend but dead chuffed with result. As soon as AST top mounts turn up, its time to build the strut.. good times
Last edited by SinfulDesignCom on Sun May 20, 2012 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
#10: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:41 pm ---- Nice job. Keep us updated.
#11: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:16 pm ---- do you plan to use AST top mount with standard suspension (non-coilover)?
my experience is it will not fit.
and even if you make it fit to the topmount, the lower spring seat will rub against the inner arch
#12: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:10 pm ----
Seabook wrote:
do you plan to use AST top mount with standard suspension (non-coilover)?
my experience is it will not fit.
and even if you make it fit to the topmount, the lower spring seat will rub against the inner arch
Odd that you should say that because my first question to them was concerning the spring seat... Now that you have mentioned it unprompted I feel compelled to enquire further.
Your experience? So you have tried this combo of non-coilover with AST mount?
I will report back on my findings. Any knowledge of other adjustable plates? Only other company I know of is compbrake and they only do non-adjustables...
#13: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:26 am ----
SinfulDesignCom wrote:
Seabook wrote:
do you plan to use AST top mount with standard suspension (non-coilover)?
my experience is it will not fit.
and even if you make it fit to the topmount, the lower spring seat will rub against the inner arch
Odd that you should say that because my first question to them was concerning the spring seat... Now that you have mentioned it unprompted I feel compelled to enquire further.
Your experience? So you have tried this combo of non-coilover with AST mount?
I will report back on my findings. Any knowledge of other adjustable plates? Only other company I know of is compbrake and they only do non-adjustables...
yes. i am 100% sure it is not going to work as i tried before. Who did you speak to? Did you speak to kurtis from AST or other online dealer? As i spook to kurtis before and he said he can only guarantee the topmount would fit onto AST coilover. (In fact i highly doubt the topmount is useful for other brands of coilover)
In fact with the un-modified AST top mount you can't even fit the standard strut onto it. I have to machines out a collar to get it to sit properly.
But then after i fit that onto my car, the strut was sitting closer to the inner side of the car so the lower spring seat rub against the inner arch linner. Plus the car will seat higher than before.
My advances it forget about the top mount plate on stadnard strut (as your plan is to build for stock hatch class so you can use coilovers). Instead, get the -2 degree front pivot from peugeot sport.
#14: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:55 am ---- Sound advice Seabook - many thanks. And you had once again read my mind. I got a high resolution image of the AST mount and I can see straight away that it isn't going to work. I already have the rear lower bushes on the wishbone that give me a sniff of offset, so combined with the front pivot, I should be quite nicely set up. Just means the caster will stay put, which is no biggie.
Regarding the pivot - these are what I found from Peugeot Sport. Are these what you are speaking of??
#16: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:21 am ---- That's the entire hub for 180 euros? Plus bearings etc of course. Again - have you used these yourself - I assume that they are geared to work with standard centric setup?
The plates above from Special Tuning (below) would give the same by the looks, but we are again back to the question of clearance. Being made for the S1600 works which had wider stuff as standard it would be a case of trial and error. But I'm an impatient b**tard and don't like it when things do not work
Cheers for your help Seabook - much appreciated.
#17: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:39 am ----
SinfulDesignCom wrote:
That's the entire hub for 180 euros? Plus bearings etc of course. Again - have you used these yourself - I assume that they are geared to work with standard centric setup?
The plates above from Special Tuning (below) would give the same by the looks, but we are again back to the question of clearance. Being made for the S1600 works which had wider stuff as standard it would be a case of trial and error. But I'm an impatient b**tard and don't like it when things do not work
Cheers for your help Seabook - much appreciated.
yes. 180+VAT+ postage. per side.
stuff from peugeot sport are pretty cheap.
and no i didn't use that. I use the AST top mount with sportline 2 coilovers
#18: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:33 pm ---- You can redrill OEM topmount holes for camber. You dont need that parts from Special Tuning in that picture. Or you can use -2 degree Peugeot Sport complete Whell Hub. Or you can make your adjustable plate like me. But you need coilover.
#19: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:42 pm ---- I take it i will probably be one of the very few to get the ATS top mounts to fit then?
Pretty simple bit of machining is all that is needed
I take it i will probably be one of the very few to get the ATS top mounts to fit then?
Pretty simple bit of machining is all that is needed
yours is coilover so that doesn't count
Still needs modification as the cup at the top would smash the screws to bits and they wouldnt have any top mount bearings either
#22: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: simpsonrc, Location: coventryPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:59 pm ---- i have ast top mounts with coilovers, and peugeot sport front hubs.
Seabook how much camber are you running?
#23: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:31 am ----
Addaz wrote:
Seabook wrote:
Addaz wrote:
I take it i will probably be one of the very few to get the ATS top mounts to fit then?
Pretty simple bit of machining is all that is needed
yours is coilover so that doesn't count
Still needs modification as the cup at the top would smash the screws to bits and they wouldnt have any top mount bearings either
the bearing must have lost during the years then
#24: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:34 am ----
simpsonrc wrote:
i have ast top mounts with coilovers, and peugeot sport front hubs.
Seabook how much camber are you running?
about -1.5 degree road camber@stock height
#25: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:36 pm ---- Right - update for today being that having spoken to Compbrake, their "non-adjustable" top mount by default fit at -1.0 of camber - so that thrown in with the -0.5 I already have from the rear bush on the wishbone suits me fine.
There is no point in getting the Pug Sport hubs as they would offer no real performance upgrade from stock, so 200 squid on the Compbrake top mounts which have super-duper aerospace rocket-ship grade mega-alloy and decent bearings make sense. And I have it on good authority from the manufacturer that they fit stock setup just fine.
Bilsteins and eibach's turned up today so I'm itching to get moving.
With all this lot in hand, it just leaves me the top spring plate... I am sure that OEM will suffice, but has anyone used or know of any aftermarket? Inevitably they will be better bearings than OEM and probably cheaper..
Compbrake have quoted me a 6 week turnaround for the top mounts!
Surely there must be more than two companies supplying decent suspension components...?
#27: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:23 pm ---- not really....
But you can always ask the chinese suppliers like D2/ Ksport see if they got any in stock...
#28: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:25 pm ---- Well its been an interesting week for the car. Managed to re-boot driveshaft, but then noticed hub bearings were shot to sh*t, so had to do those as well... The top mount situation fell on its face. Compbrake found a set, sent them out and what do you know??
S'right. Well out. Plus one set had play in the bearings! So, I told them to go swivel... like what I did there Hub.. swivel... nevermind.
Still, bilsteins and eibachs turned up - got some new bearings and top mounts from local Peugeot main stealer and put everything back together with a nice clean hub with new bearings. It would appear top mounts are going to be too much of a pain. Nice weather here and I want to drive. Will take time locating a correct set and fit later in Summer...
Of course, none of this would have been possible without the assistance of my counterpart. Thinking of finding him a little 4-point kitty harness and take him with me next time at Brands.
Then with everything on the strut I put all back in place. Word of warning - do a visual check of Bilstein shocks BEFORE fitting. Part numbers were wrong. Ended up fitting drivers side to passenger side. But didn't realise until I bolted it in... So.. back out, back in with correct shock and viola!
Only ARB to do (oh, and other side!).. and then its brakes, fluid changes and done.
#29: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:35 pm ---- compbrake is just a joke then......
are those normal bilstein or grp N insert?
looking good, you might have a chance to challenge Edward's 206 lol
#30: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:48 pm ---- Well compbrake have very helpful staff, but if you let a top mount go out the door with a couple of mm of play.. well. They are B6 Bilsteins.. and stamped the wrong way round!
Oh - it will complete - don't worry about that! One pay day to another, these bits will get done. Throttle bodies are very tempting, but only when she can handle and stop
#33: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:58 pm ---- It had just occured to me that I had not logged the interior work I had done before I started this thread. Over the chilly month of March, I completely stripped the rear of the car, gave it a damn good clean, scored some deep pile automotive carpet and layed out the rear. Then I got some Sabelt harnesses and secured them using the standard mounting points by use of a split anchor at the back. Works perfectly, is 100% safe and 100% road legal and will be fine at scrutineering.
Then - as it was a good day and I had a bit of time to spare, after belting 10 bales of sh*t out of the the intermediate bearing bracket, the drivers side driveshaft came free allowing me to strip the arch and get cleaning. There wasn't much in the way of wear at all before I started;
Then a sanding sheet later, some primer and a lick of sealing paint;
Now just leaves me to repair the outer boot on the 'shart and will probably replace the hub bearings this side too - even if they haven't gone as 40k odd will have inevitably taken their mark on them. Plus, new siny bearings have got to be good for transfer of drivetrain to wheel power output...
Finally, have just built up the strut ready for putting back together, hopefully this weekend if I can break of my plans withe the Queen. No hanging about here!! Let's get this thing done
#34: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:22 pm ---- Love the harnesses mate, similar to what I've gone for but haven't got round to doing the carpeting yet but I've got 9 days off work coming up unfortunately my car booked in at a garage for work 3 days into it so going to make the most of it.
Did you use pray on glue to hold the carpet down?
#35: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:53 pm ---- Cheers Spike... Didn't use spray glue - most sprays won't be nearly strong enough. I used some industrial stuff that you slap on both surfaces and bond. I am fortunate to have a company on my doorstep who kit out conversions for disability vehicles, ambulances etc, so they have all the right gear from carpet to glue. You need the right carpet as well otherwise the glue will soak thru it, make it rock hard and will discolour it.
I'd suggest finding someone similar local to you - failing that, the resellers of this stuff would happily do you mail order on all the right gear from my neck of the woods (Select Products, Ashford - 01233 623236). If you contact them, say Matt from Sinful Design sent you and I said you would get a good deal
#36: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:30 am ---- Nice one Matt when I kitted out my old works van with racking and that rubber mat I used spray glue and I didn't last long so used unibond in a tin god that stuff sticks. Thanks for the heads up on the carpet to as daft as it sounds I was going to try a carpet shop ect I just want to get the colour to match the rest of the interior carpet in the back as I'm not stripping that out. And I see shat you mean about get thick stuff not like audio carpet.
#37: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:58 am ---- Yes mate - there is a million dollar industry in this stuff. Select Products get most of their stuff from the states where you get the stuff like pimp my ride. They make glues and carpet SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of "pimping" cars. So you at least know you are getting the right stuff.
Let me know if I can help with anything brother and I will do what I can....
#38: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:33 pm ---- I've been to a few carpet shops around buy me today after work and they don't have what I want so I may need you to hook me up with some lol how much a sqmtr do they charge?
#39: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:16 pm ---- Not sure off the top of my head, but they do different grades depending on what you are kitting out - so if it is going to be footwells you will need some very hard wearing stuff, but for the job I did where the purpose was just to make the car look pretty and muffle a bit of centre-section burble, you can go for something a little less.
Are you doing the same job as I have in the 180?
#40: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm ---- Yes Matt, I'm wanting to carpet the back for some time now just haven't see or heard of any one who has done it before so didn't realy know what to do or what it involves. I basically need the same stuff you have. I would also like to take off the side carpets in the boot go a bit further up the sides then refit them so you can't see any unsightly trimming.
#41: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:15 pm ---- Right - next update is here as I had a nice day for it. Today consisted of two operations; an aircon-ectomy and an airbag-ectomy. I HATE airbags and given that I have harnesses and bucket seats, there is even less reason for them, so I dug out the control unit and got shot of it...
I then took some tools to the air con components, having decompressed and drained. Handy that I had the drivers side arch in bits so I could trace the pipework back to the bulkhead and remove. Two 10mm nuts, pipes out and replace a blank plate!
Look at all the space!!!!
I then finished up the seal and waxoyl on the drivers arch, had a clean and put all back together
Then just before putting the strut assembly back, I noticed the cotton reel engine mount thinking that being the next job it would make sense to replace it now, given that the driveshaft needs to come out to do the job.. So I stopped there with the suspension and removed the engine mount and bracket. Will need to score a poly job after the weekend and then put everything back.
#42: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:08 pm ---- Did you take the air con pump off also?
#43: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:14 pm ----
spike_202 wrote:
Did you take the air con pump off also?
Oh yeah - forgot that bit....
Got me a non-air con model belt and re-routed the new belt. Can do photos if required, but i just followed the diagram for the povery model and it straight forward enough..
#44: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:21 pm ---- Hay Matt nar Its ok i was just thinking if yoke left it on lol, Im having a even shorter belt as I'm having my pas converted to an electric system due to my inlet project.
#45: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:26 am ---- Arent you going to strip it a little more mate?
Good start though
#46: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:04 pm ----
Addaz wrote:
Arent you going to strip it a little more mate?
Good start though
stock hatch class require full interior present
#47: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:38 pm ---- I personally think it looks better with the rear carpeted
#48: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:01 pm ---- I have gone too far to be stock hatch... I recalled the last meet I attended when some total f**kwit put 40psi into his tyres because.. and I quote "it was a dry day". Needless to say, he went into my friends AX GT. Not saying i'm not still tempted to get back into the game, but the question in my head was how I would feel should someone do something similar to this. I have got too attached to the bloody thing...
#49: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:03 pm ---- Anyone know of any other manufacturer of adjustable drop links other than Whiteline? Not too bad at £130, but I am sure some of that is just for the name...
#50: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Andy_, Location: Isle of ManPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:56 am ---- This is coming along nicely
#51: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:06 am ----
Andy_ wrote:
This is coming along nicely
Cheers Andy... if time and money weren't such a problem...
#52: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:04 pm ---- Just a question on your harness Matt, is there any specific reason you went for the V shape at the rear of the car? Or would a single strap still be ok for road use? Regarding m.o.t ect
Also were does the side clips atatch to on the standard sub frame?
Just a question on your harness Matt, is there any specific reason you went for the V shape at the rear of the car? Or would a single strap still be ok for road use? Regarding m.o.t ect
Also were does the side clips atatch to on the standard sub frame?
Thanks rich
You cannot use a single strap at the back unless you weld in your own mounts. I am using the existing anchor points for the rear seat belts which are perfect for the split rear harness. If it was a single point it would have to pull to the left or to the right using one of the existing mounts which would fail both MOT and scruntineering. PLUS.. and more importantly, should the worst happen, the force holding you in would be biased towards the side that your strap is fitted and cause potential injury. I bought mine direct from Sabelt outlet. You need some different eye bolts as the thread on those supplied is wrong for Peugeot. I forget which, but they can be got from Tweeks...
#54: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:28 am ----
SinfulDesignCom wrote:
Anyone know of any other manufacturer of adjustable drop links other than Whiteline? Not too bad at £130, but I am sure some of that is just for the name...
thread rod+rose joint is the answer
just get the measure from the old drop link then here we go
Anyone know of any other manufacturer of adjustable drop links other than Whiteline? Not too bad at £130, but I am sure some of that is just for the name...
thread rod+rose joint is the answer
just get the measure from the old drop link then here we go
sometimes the simpliest of ideas are staring you right in the face...
Cheers seabook
#56: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: simpsonrc, Location: coventryPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:05 pm ---- I made my own rose jointed drop links like seabook said. I’ve got some pictures if you want.
I made my own rose jointed drop links like seabook said. I’ve got some pictures if you want.
Sure thing... would be good. I have got a bearings compnay on my doorstep here in Ashford, so I may pay them a visit tomorrow. Need to find some end threaded rods rather than a full threaded rod. The rose joints dont seem to be a problem.
Sure as hell not paying £130 anymore.. Sorry whiteline
I thought I had some of the separate components but I can’t find them
#59: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:26 am ---- thats exactly the stuff....
thank you - am sure this will help searches in the future too
#60: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:10 am ---- Would these come under group N linkages?
#62: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:39 am ---- Looks like I'll have to use the company you did Matt. The carpet arrived and it's not a good match more of a stoney gray...it's going back lol.
#63: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:20 pm ---- Bit of a bastid.... bit like my son of a b***h intermediate bearing that went pete tong this afternoon.. grrrr
#64: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:20 am ---- Hay Matt just a quickie...
On ordering the reccomendid carpet they said it's 1.2m wide and 1.9m long just measuring up and at widest point is a tad over 1.2 (were the curvy plastic is) so did you do use 2strips or do you a a bit if exposed floor??
I supose you have to take into account that there is bumps/ups/downs in the floor also so will reduce the width a tad.
Rich
#65: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:09 am ---- Rich,
I separated it at the point it becomes the underneath of the rear seats. That bit is a nightmare to do and it is far easier if you separate like this. I think from memory, I did the rear-most part first to the point that it just starts to move down into the well of the rear seats when I could see it becoming a problem, cut a straight edge and did the next as another piece. Note that the parts towards the side - near to where the speakers sit, you will need to cut and move a little. This is the only down-side to using proper matting. You could use the stretch stuff, but as I said in my earlier post, this matting is not good and will only soak through the glue.
Best of luck bud
#66: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:20 am ---- Nice one Matt they quoted me £38 for the carpet witch I thought was a tad extreme as I only paid £18 for 2m wide x 4m long....shame it was in the wrong colour what is it exactly a charcoal grey?
Thanks for the help mate
#67: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:15 pm ---- I used charcoal grey - I am of course assuming that Peugeot used the same for all models/years... I have not really put the two side by side, but they are pretty damn close and the area I have carpeted, you wouldn't really see the new and old in the same light anyway.. and I am quite picky as you will have seen from my suspension so far!
#68: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:07 am ---- Hay Matt did you sort your abs probably out? Mine isn't the relucter ring and can't find any outher faults it may be it's a weird one
#69: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:02 pm ---- Sorry for delay updating guys... Had a major issue with the diff, but all sorted now. Long story short is that the front end is done apart from the drop links! Just waiting for some high tensile stuff to fit. So the updates since my last post are as follows;
1. Finished re-con and painting calipers and fitted up with Black Diamond Predator
2. Then did the rear de-wiper thing. Scored some proper PVC (non perishable) seals to fit in hole. Bit of araldite and job done. ***NOTE*** I had to buy pack of 10 grommets so if anyone wants one for their own de-wiper, they are ideal - just drop me a PM
3. Got local engineering firm to thread up some 304 grade 16mm stainless for my rose joints. Couple of days later - some very high quality and fully adjustable drop links!!
4. Delayed fitting the driver side stuff back together while I got the two lower rear bushes for engine support. The smaller one on the stabiliser arm is a right git to remove and re-fit. Be warned...
5. Everything (less ARB) back together and officially lowered! All stuff re-con'd or replaced and the lower 6-groove Black Diamond Discs and stainless hoses all over =)
Only the ARB to complete from set up. Wheels should arrive mid next week, so really looking forward to that one. Already got stuff on route for rear - just need word back from my mate who will be helping me with axle.
Good times =)
#70: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:38 pm ---- Nice updates Matt those drop links look sweet, did you do your engine mounts? As I'm sorting a group buy on some grpN BBM mounts from pug1off if you want post on the thread and we can get more discount.
Been a good weekend so managed to get a fair bit done - although I am dangerous high on chemical fumes, courtesy of oil resistant enamel, waxoyl underseal, primer and hammerite sealer. Still - the weekend started out by foolishly removing the inner arch, after which my OCD kicked in noticing a few areas of surface rust.. hmmm, I wonder what's behind your arch liners viewers
This is what I started with - surface corrosion highlighted in red;
The worst area was that shown on the right - shown below in more detail. Is only surface rust, nothing to write home about;
Note to self, when removing lower arm bolts, remove driveshaft first so bolt does not total driveshaft boot - DOH!
Then got preparing and painting. Everything below the mid point is undersealed and this was still tip top so required no work. The worst part - shown above - got rubbed down completely, primed, painted and then waxoyl'ed to prevent the same happening. Same treatment for the other parts, but without underseal. Difficult to do this wihtout your loaf buried in the arch - especially the top strut mount area; hence the aforementioned high feeling.
With everything done and dried, I then fitted the new enameled wishbone complete with poly bush using new bolts, nuts and washers and threadlock to 104ft/lb torque... and without ait tools this equates to feet on 1/2in bar and pushing against your other 206 parked next to the 180. Then had a bit of a clean and here is finished result... Long weekend but dead chuffed with result. As soon as AST top mounts turn up, its time to build the strut.. good times
my old 2004 gti 180
#72: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:08 am ---- comming along nicely
loving the drop links, what arb are you getting is it the h&r 23mm, were the hoses exact off of ebay by any chance, they look very similar to the ones i got, i will be watching the rear axel overhaul as ill be doing mine soon so images will help
#73: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:07 pm ---- Thanks Usher... For the purpose of 1mm gain, I am sticking with the standard ARB. The adjustable drops will be good enough to stiffen. All brakes stuff is Black Diamond including hoses. I used them when I used to track my Citroens...
Rear stuff will be good. As you have GTi you will not have stablisier arms, but having both GTi and the 180, I can tell you those little arms make the world of difference. And do yourself a favour, go with the billet ally bushes. The way the setup is designed, even uprated bushes will still allow a degree of the dreaded rear steer and this will be exactly when you dont need it - at high speeds. I have these on my GTi 138 and hell they are good. Keep watching and I will show here
Shell - your wing is upsetting! Glad I got to mine when I did!!!
#74: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:03 pm ---- thought the 180 used 21mm arb on the front ?, im looking at one off an sw which is 22mm as i cant have the springs too stiff with using it daily, as for the rear i have considdered the 180 axel, would it be ok to run it for some months without the arms as i couldnt afford to get it fitted then a new exhaust made up, and would the alloy bushes be too stiff for a daily ride
or can you add the arms to the gti axel on service box they look almost identical
do you have any pictures of the front camber by the way
#75: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:31 pm ---- I have a 180 axle in bits the only differnce is that the 180 had holes drilled into the axle cast for the mounting of the rear sway bars I think it would be a pain to get it all lined up right or it could do more bad than good. Can you get them separate? As I'd like to refurb the axle and have it fitted to mine in time.
#76: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:21 pm ---- you was the person i was thinnking of nabbing them off lol i saw you got one on here and only wanted the tb's
i been on ebay and they seam a fair price off the sw but the 180 ones are near 400
thought the 180 used 21mm arb on the front ?, im looking at one off an sw which is 22mm as i cant have the springs too stiff with using it daily, as for the rear i have considdered the 180 axel, would it be ok to run it for some months without the arms as i couldnt afford to get it fitted then a new exhaust made up, and would the alloy bushes be too stiff for a daily ride
or can you add the arms to the gti axel on service box they look almost identical
do you have any pictures of the front camber by the way
The 180 front ARB is 22mm, and for springs if you get good progressive rate jobbies they will be fine for every day. The whole harder ride thing about lowered cars should only apply to those who drop by silly amounts. Dropping by up to 30-40mm should be fine with decent springs. The cheaper springs are like standard springs with the top coil cut off!!
I dont think the arms for the 180 axle would fit the 138 chassis. Other that this, the axle is almost the same. Lotus took the car on to make these changes and the first things they set about doing was getting rid of this rear steer. If you google you will find that Peugeot had a massive recall in place about 10 years ago because of this. The ally bushes do make for a firmer ride, but I cover 18k a year and use them. Its like anything else - you get used to it, but its not the sort of thing that will put you in the waiting room of a chiropractor if thats what you are worried about!
The front camber is only 0.5 deg - cannot really be seen. I can try to take a shot levelling it up with the rears.. But need to wait til wheels arrive - hopefully tomorrow - and I can get laser alignment. It badly needs it!!
#78: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:44 pm ---- Sorry spike - you had covered most of my post! I would replace the GTi axle bushes with ally first to save a lot of ag. Mine can outhandle most things with these alone and feels really stable... granted I have dropped frony 40mm and has Billy's all round... Last edited by SinfulDesignCom on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
#79: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:55 pm ---- That would be sweet Matt, I've tried to look for a replacement sway bar but to no avail,could you point me in any direction? I know they bolt onto the Tube then spand out to the hubs like in this pic,
#80: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:58 pm ---- there is one 180gti axle on egay, 300 delivered
#81: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:52 pm ---- Sway bars are all integral to the axle. So yes - get a 180 axle - it will bolt right on with sway bars and all... Will be better than just standard 138 axle with uprated bushes but a little more work as you will inevitably have 180 rear discs and probably best to follow up with the fronts as the bias will be right out....
#82: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:12 pm ---- Rear discs are the same size across the 206 range, I also already have 307/180 front brakes with sport pad/disc combo.
I do have a 180 axle but didn't come with the sway/lateral bars or (what ever people call it now)so I split it so I could use the thicker torsion bars in my axle. I no the bearings are good in my axle as I had them replaced when they fitted my axle 2years ago.
Just wanderd if the sway/lateral bar could be an oem fitment as it literately clamps on the tube using U clamps and bolts on the hubs.
#83: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:30 pm ---- Only one way to find out. Someone here must have tried this before surely???
Would take a butchers but have got a client banging on about some website updates.... *sigh*
#84: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:08 am ---- Lol matt, good to hear your bizzy at work, we haven't got much on ATM,so making use of the standard finishing times.
Iirc that lad who did that White 'time atack' car did somthing with it I'm not sure if that was a 180 tho.
#85: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:14 am ---- if your refering to white noise it was a 138 with 180 inlet and big turbo
might look into the ally bushes, the only reason i as about how harsh the ride is with things is that its not fair on the kids if its too harsh after all they in the back lol
i got some 22mm tb's to fit with the axel so should tighten things up on the back, up front i have sport dampers and eibach springs so should be good enough, might uprate the arb not sure as yet
the camber on the front of mine is almost + thats why im after some pics im planning on re-drilling the top mounts but unsure as yet
whats next for yours or is it straight on with the axel
Rear discs are the same size across the 206 range, I also already have 307/180 front brakes with sport pad/disc combo.
I do have a 180 axle but didn't come with the sway/lateral bars or (what ever people call it now)so I split it so I could use the thicker torsion bars in my axle. I no the bearings are good in my axle as I had them replaced when they fitted my axle 2years ago.
Just wanderd if the sway/lateral bar could be an oem fitment as it literately clamps on the tube using U clamps and bolts on the hubs.
depends on what rear beam have you got...(the main tube)
there are at least 3 different types of main tube and only 1 of them can fit the lateral bar
#87: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:26 pm ---- LOL - knew Seabook would have something to say on the topic!!
Usher - you planning on tracking your puppy? Otherwise you will hardly notice the benefit of camber adjustment. But it would appear that a DIY job in the top mounts is the best way to go given my experience of late!
Finally... kids... modded cars... we need to get some perspective on priorities!!! Only joking bud...
#88: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:46 pm ---- as far as i know the shape of the main tube is different (circular shape and slight triangle shape), not to mention the radius of the end stud too ( 2 size).
trailing arm (ignore drum and disc brake at this moment) have 2 type too (one for lateral arm and one don't, but i remember some model might have the trailing arm with the pre-drilled hole for the lateral arm; of course excluding the SW and 180gti)
Gti and most 1.6 16v definitely has slight triangle shape main tube. so there is no way you can fit the lateral arm to it. s1082.photobucket.com/...=027-9.jpg gti
#89: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:40 pm ---- Your first link requires password dude..!!
But good info...
#90: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:03 am ---- Yer I have the round tube and it just looks like that middle plate bolts on with U brackets
LOL - knew Seabook would have something to say on the topic!!
Usher - you planning on tracking your puppy? Otherwise you will hardly notice the benefit of camber adjustment. But it would appear that a DIY job in the top mounts is the best way to go given my experience of late!
Finally... kids... modded cars... we need to get some perspective on priorities!!! Only joking bud...
thats what people keep telling me lol, the kids love the car so i can compain as yet
reason for my front camber is that it understeers too easy and the wheels almost look vertical, wonder how much camber 15mm over on the top mounts would end up in camber deg, i did loosen the top mount bolts and try moving the wheel and it didnt look to be far too much so might just jump in as i can always switch back
i take the car on the track once a year atm but onece i get a better paid job ill be doing it as often as poss, main thing at the mo is getting it right as its hit 70k miles and things are starting to need replacing so thought i may as well do it properly like you have etc start at one end
#93: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:37 pm ---- You can work it out - all in the maths... You want to go easy as you will soon dip the other way and get understeer - particularly if you are stiffening up the rear end....
So when do the kids leave home???
#94: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:35 am ---- lol there only 1and2 got the 22mm pug sport bars to go in as yet. you think i should leave the camberuntil after fitting the bars
#95: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:01 pm ---- are you talking 22mm rear torsion bars or the fornt ARB? The rear will make no difference to when you do the camber, but I would experiment with the front before going any further. I would argue that camber would be the last change to the geometry - and if required. Adjustable drop links for one will reduce your understeer by up'ing the load on the ARB... They are very underrated as a mod...
#96: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:03 am ---- yea i ment the TB's the front arb will be added after if i feel it needs to be stiffer up front, how much did it cost to make your drop links as i might be interested in the future
#97: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:40 am ---- To supply and machine in 304 grde stainless, it came to £45, and that was to take M10 and 1.25 pitch rose joints.
#103: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:53 pm ---- do I get commission as you are using my thread
#104: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:05 am ---- Righto... the front is completed!! Just finished with the new drop links and ARB... Popped the new spacer kit on and I am ready for the wheels. So, here are the final pictures... A BIG THANKS to Seabook, Spike, Simpson and all who helped with resources so far. Really appreciate it fellas...
Here's to the next stage... rear axle re-con, bushes, rear brakes and 'zorst. Third and final stage will be the engine stuff - see how much is left in the kitty after stage 2 first
#105: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: Seabook, Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:17 pm ---- Those yellow anti-roll bar looks good!
I am surprise you can get some work done during this weekend
it was pouring down here and i just manage to do some work between the rain interval lol
#106: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: shell-vt, Location: durhamPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:19 pm ---- looks great this build
Mr Seabook - yes - it did absolutely wee it down all day, but I didn't care. Had a job to do, and dammit, it was going to get done!!
Will prolly catch a cold now - but these are the labours of love we suffer at the hands of working on our beloved vehicles...
#108: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:08 pm ---- The droplinks look epic Matt top job
#109: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:26 pm ---- Cheers matey... been a long time coming...
Bit of a British Rail moment
#110: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:06 pm ---- looking good all finished up front, you beat me to painting the front arb lol on a side note why yellow? would have expected red
just cleaned up my front arch and found some light surface rust so think ill have to crack out the underseal for that, shame it doesnt come in orange lol
#111: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:47 pm ---- LOL - yellow because I already have red calipers and wishbones - need to balance out the yellow of the Bilsteins!!
#112: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:30 am ---- lol what Will be blue to balance the logo
#114: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:59 am ---- was it just car paint you used?? or hammerite
#115: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:34 pm ---- The red is some stuff I got from a firm specialising in uber stone resistant stuff - the rest is indeed hammerrite. Word of advice... be prepared to do a lot of touching up if you paint before fitting!! LOL
#116: Re: SINFUL DESIGN GTi 180 Track Project Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:21 am ---- ill be careful lol i kinda need to use car paint and laquer on mine as i want it colour coded as with the torsion bars so will be fun fitting them after painting, still looking at finding a 180 axel for mine, think it will save time if i recon that then swop it over
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