#1: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: kernel, Location: EarthPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:58 am ---- Hi
I've read in some places that when you get a code through diagnostics machine, you can only erase these codes 50 times.
If you do more than this, ECU dies! Is that true?
I also read it depends on the ECU, but not sure which ones are affected or not.
Regards
#2: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: VorTechS, Location: Gloucestershire, UKPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:59 am ---- Apparently this is true, yes. (that you can't clear the codes after 50, sorry didn't read the ECU dies bit....) Last edited by VorTechS on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total
#3: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Seabook, Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:47 am ---- the ecu won't die....
it only means you will never be able to clear the code again
#4: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Rob2859, Location: HalifaxPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:21 am ---- It might be possible to de-solder the ROM memory chip and put another one on. Mine must be knocking on the door by now.
#5: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:40 pm ---- It won't die but if it get's into limp mode that's it because you can't wipe the code that flaged it.
#6: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:44 pm ---- Only thing that can be done is to reflash the ECU so the ROM is cleared.
#7: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: DeeTurbo, Location: BedfordshirePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:02 pm ---- Now, I know the ECU won't die but is the rest true, can you only clear codes fifty times?
I thought there is room for fifty stored parameters of occurred errors but surely you should still be able to clear a code as many times as you like?
The reason why I'm so interested in this is because my memory on my ECU has reached its maximum 50 and I get a "communication error" when trying to clear the fault I'm having with the MAF with PP. I first thought it just my cheap clone device playing up but after reading the above I'm worried that I won't be able to get my car sorted without getting another ECU or as said of replacing ROM. I need to give my old ELM327 ago to see if that clears the code and see what else happens with that.
I could really do with finding out about this.
#8: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: DeeTurbo, Location: BedfordshirePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:04 pm ----
LeeThr wrote:
Only thing that can be done is to reflash the ECU so the ROM is cleared.
Will that work?
#9: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: kernel, Location: EarthPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:15 pm ----
Seabook wrote:
the ecu won't die....
it only means you will never be able to clear the code again
but do you know if this is for the same code or different codes? I mean for example if I cleared the same error 40 times and another one 10 times, it counts as 50 clear-codes or just 2 clear-codes? I fear it's the first thing...
Rob2859 wrote:
It might be possible to de-solder the ROM memory chip and put another one on. Mine must be knocking on the door by now.
Some way to count how many clear-codes have been done?
V9977 wrote:
It won't die but if it get's into limp mode that's it because you can't wipe the code that flaged it.
PSA Anyway I think the car can clear itself the code when some warm-ups cycles have been done. Could this avoid getting new ECU?
#10: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:26 pm ----
kernel wrote:
Seabook wrote:
the ecu won't die....
it only means you will never be able to clear the code again
but do you know if this is for the same code or different codes? I mean for example if I cleared the same error 40 times and another one 10 times, it counts as 50 clear-codes or just 2 clear-codes? I fear it's the first thing...
Rob2859 wrote:
It might be possible to de-solder the ROM memory chip and put another one on. Mine must be knocking on the door by now.
Some way to count how many clear-codes have been done?
V9977 wrote:
It won't die but if it get's into limp mode that's it because you can't wipe the code that flaged it.
PSA Anyway I think the car can clear itself the code when some warm-ups cycles have been done. Could this avoid getting new ECU?
'History' in PP2000 has 50 slots. Once it says 'the history is full' that's it. No more wipey-wipey.
Each slot is for one erase opperation wether you've erased 1 code or 12 in one go.
Better to get a different 2nd hand ECU/BSI+key rather than re-flash imo.
Don't know about self-clearing and limp mode if history is full.
You might be right with a bit of luck.
#11: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: kernel, Location: EarthPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:49 pm ----
V9977 wrote:
kernel wrote:
Seabook wrote:
the ecu won't die....
it only means you will never be able to clear the code again
but do you know if this is for the same code or different codes? I mean for example if I cleared the same error 40 times and another one 10 times, it counts as 50 clear-codes or just 2 clear-codes? I fear it's the first thing...
Rob2859 wrote:
It might be possible to de-solder the ROM memory chip and put another one on. Mine must be knocking on the door by now.
Some way to count how many clear-codes have been done?
V9977 wrote:
It won't die but if it get's into limp mode that's it because you can't wipe the code that flaged it.
PSA Anyway I think the car can clear itself the code when some warm-ups cycles have been done. Could this avoid getting new ECU?
'History' in PP2000 has 50 slots. Once it says 'the history is full' that's it. No more wipey-wipey.
Each slot is for one erase opperation wether you've erased 1 code or 12 in one go.
Better to get a different 2nd hand ECU/BSI+key rather than re-flash imo.
Don't know about self-clearing and limp mode if history is full.
You might be right with a bit of luck.
thanks for that
so, what a sh*t. Do you know if this is for any 206 ECU (included gti180) ?
#12: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:01 pm ---- I think so.
Might be wrong though.
About self-clearing, I think it will depend on the code as some won't clear themselves.
Still, 50 is quite a lot in practice.
#13: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:10 pm ----
V9977 wrote:
I think so.
Might be wrong though.
About self-clearing, I think it will depend on the code as some won't clear themselves.
Still, 50 is quite a lot in practice.
Wouldn't take that much with the idiots who just try to ignore these problems instead of getting them fixed.
#14: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:17 pm ---- I think a running fault will clear itself when sorted, but a faulty sensor will flag up an error which needs clearing in the ECU. If PP wont clear the fault, then your ELM certainly wont.
I cant really understand why there is a limit TBH.
#15: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:39 pm ---- Try to understand why on the twin turbo 2.2 diesel models full throttle for more than 24 hours in total (1 minute here and there) will whack the ECU into limp/half power mode to 'conserve' the engine
New one please
#16: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:59 pm ----
Addaz wrote:
Try to understand why on the twin turbo 2.2 diesel models full throttle for more than 24 hours in total (1 minute here and there) will whack the ECU into limp/half power mode to 'conserve' the engine
New one please
Care to give the explanation?
#17: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:00 pm ----
Addaz wrote:
Try to understand why on the twin turbo 2.2 diesel models full throttle for more than 24 hours in total (1 minute here and there) will whack the ECU into limp/half power mode to 'conserve' the engine
New one please
TBF it would be pretty hard to hit full throttle for 24 hours. Even on a motorway, you won't have your foot down to the carpet unless you're doing well over the speed limit. I can't even think of the last time I hit full throttle in my 1.4 and that's fairly gutless in comparison.
#18: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:03 pm ---- He means 24 hours total not continiously.
But yes, I've never had to FOT any car not even for testing.
#19: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:15 pm ----
V9977 wrote:
He means 24 hours total not continiously.
But yes, I've never had to FOT any car not even for testing.
I know that
When you think if you accelerate hard from traffic lights, you're only at full throttle for a second until you change gear. And if you do hit 24 hours at full throttle, I think it's probably a good thing the the engine protects itself.
#20: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:43 pm ----
macca1411 wrote:
V9977 wrote:
He means 24 hours total not continiously.
But yes, I've never had to FOT any car not even for testing.
I know that
When you think if you accelerate hard from traffic lights, you're only at full throttle for a second until you change gear. And if you do hit 24 hours at full throttle, I think it's probably a good thing the the engine protects itself.
Dont think about now, but think the seconds soon add up in the miles you do. Good idea, bad way of going about it with the ECU
#21: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: kernel, Location: EarthPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:08 pm ----
Steve206 wrote:
I think a running fault will clear itself when sorted, but a faulty sensor will flag up an error which needs clearing in the ECU. If PP wont clear the fault, then your ELM certainly wont.
I cant really understand why there is a limit TBH.
memory issue I guess...
still, it's a pity not being able to know how many resets have been done...
#22: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:37 pm ---- it all sounds like its programmed to cause problems for the tuning fans amongst us or the boy racers at least.......tuning fans would know how to get round this where boy racers ...well////wouldnt but it still sucks,afterall once you pay your cash the cars yours to do with as you wish...its actualy getting to the point these days where even if you paid cash its more like leasing the damned things..as if youve just borrowed the car for a few years...all these special tools and gadgets only go to reinforce the fact...its your hard earned cash so you should have total free reign to do exactly as you choose but the b*****d* dont like that these days...give em an overall and they think there hitler..sad.
#23: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:10 pm ---- These ECU's use EEPROM chips which have a limited number of guaranteed read/write cycles.
For safety and reliability as well as legal reasons they decided to allow 50 write opperations.
Later systems might use more up to date components but still limmit the opperations allowed
and some actually lock-up after the max number allowed.
For pugs, it's easy to check how many are logged-on by going to 'History' in PP2000 and seeing how many entries
are stored.
#24: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: kernel, Location: EarthPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:51 am ----
V9977 wrote:
These ECU's use EEPROM chips which have a limited number of guaranteed read/write cycles.
For safety and reliability as well as legal reasons they decided to allow 50 write opperations.
Later systems might use more up to date components but still limmit the opperations allowed
and some actually lock-up after the max number allowed.
For pugs, it's easy to check how many are logged-on by going to 'History' in PP2000 and seeing how many entries
are stored.
Thanks
You can see history even if the codes have been cleared using Elm327 ?
#25: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:09 am ---- Yeah, they just show as blanks with no dates.
#26: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:00 pm ---- Have a bit of info on this
Its a bit of b******s tbh, the 50 is right for PP2000 in some aspects. For when you clear a fault code(s), or 'session' in other terms, it is stored on the PC for others to view (eg warrenty department) and for when the 50 boundry is full it just wont record the sessions anymore in the ECU, i dont know if they can be cleared, but frankly i dont ideally care
But even if the 50 is reached you can still continue to clear fault codes time and time again, there is no limit.
Side note, did you know after fourty driving sessions (car temperature rises above 22C) the fault codes will try to clear themselves.
As you do
#27: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: anton1989, Location: west midlandsPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:13 pm ----
Addaz wrote:
Have a bit of info on this
Its a bit of b******s tbh, the 50 is right for PP2000 in some aspects. For when you clear a fault code(s), or 'session' in other terms, it is stored on the PC for others to view (eg warrenty department) and for when the 50 boundry is full it just wont record the sessions anymore in the ECU, i dont know if they can be cleared, but frankly i dont ideally care
But even if the 50 is reached you can still continue to clear fault codes time and time again, there is no limit.
Side note, did you know after fourty driving sessions (car temperature rises above 22C) the fault codes will try to clear themselves.
As you do
some good info there
seemed abit stupid. with all the problems most 206s get the 50 limit would surely have been reached within no time at all
#28: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:18 pm ----
Addaz wrote:
Have a bit of info on this
Its a bit of b******s tbh, the 50 is right for PP2000 in some aspects. For when you clear a fault code(s), or 'session' in other terms, it is stored on the PC for others to view (eg warrenty department) and for when the 50 boundry is full it just wont record the sessions anymore in the ECU, i dont know if they can be cleared, but frankly i dont ideally care
But even if the 50 is reached you can still continue to clear fault codes time and time again, there is no limit.
Side note, did you know after fourty driving sessions (car temperature rises above 22C) the fault codes will try to clear themselves.
As you do
Will it let you clear the MIL though? I have found that with some faults they clear themselves after 3-4 runs.
#29: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:32 pm ---- In the 7 years I've had my 206 the diagnostic warning lamp has come on once & that was when the exhaust had a leak.
#30: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:34 pm ----
Addaz wrote:
Have a bit of info on this
Its a bit of b******s tbh, the 50 is right for PP2000 in some aspects. For when you clear a fault code(s), or 'session' in other terms, it is stored on the PC for others to view (eg warrenty department) and for when the 50 boundry is full it just wont record the sessions anymore in the ECU, i dont know if they can be cleared, but frankly i dont ideally care
But even if the 50 is reached you can still continue to clear fault codes time and time again, there is no limit.
Side note, did you know after fourty driving sessions (car temperature rises above 22C) the fault codes will try to clear themselves.
As you do
Wait.
Sessions is different entirely and IS stored on the PC and company account.
History is stored in the ECU itself and I have indeed come accross Peugeot and Citroen ECU that will NOT allow wiping of codes due to it being full. You just get "History is full" message and that's it.
I believe it's to do with the fact that EEPROMs will only work reliably for a given number of write opperations before they risk being corrupt during the process.
Also, what about reseting the auto-adaptation?
Just disconnect battery or...?
#31: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: kernel, Location: EarthPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:19 pm ----
V9977 wrote:
I believe it's to do with the fact that EEPROMs will only work reliably for a given number of write opperations before they risk being corrupt during the process.
I just read on Wiki that EEPROM can be used for a lot lot read/write cyles (up to 1 million I read)
#32: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:36 pm ----
kernel wrote:
V9977 wrote:
I believe it's to do with the fact that EEPROMs will only work reliably for a given number of write opperations before they risk being corrupt during the process.
I just read on Wiki that EEPROM can be used for a lot lot read/write cyles (up to 1 million I read)
Nope.
Depends on age and design of the component.
They have been around for ages and ages, the earlier ones could do 10 to 50 cycles with
special conditions in place.
Modern ones can do millions read/write but even then, 'wear-evening' is employed by the systems using it.
#33: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:52 pm ----
V9977 wrote:
Addaz wrote:
Have a bit of info on this
Its a bit of b******s tbh, the 50 is right for PP2000 in some aspects. For when you clear a fault code(s), or 'session' in other terms, it is stored on the PC for others to view (eg warrenty department) and for when the 50 boundry is full it just wont record the sessions anymore in the ECU, i dont know if they can be cleared, but frankly i dont ideally care
But even if the 50 is reached you can still continue to clear fault codes time and time again, there is no limit.
Side note, did you know after fourty driving sessions (car temperature rises above 22C) the fault codes will try to clear themselves.
As you do
Wait.
Sessions is different entirely and IS stored on the PC and company account.
History is stored in the ECU itself and I have indeed come accross Peugeot and Citroen ECU that will NOT allow wiping of codes due to it being full. You just get "History is full" message and that's it.
I believe it's to do with the fact that EEPROMs will only work reliably for a given number of write opperations before they risk being corrupt during the process.
Also, what about reseting the auto-adaptation?
Just disconnect battery or...?
I called it a session just to make it easier to understand, but you are correct a session is stored on the PC for the tech or whoever to send it off or re-track back into it
I will have to confirm on how but as said by my mentor (master tech) you can clear for ever and a day. If he doesnt know im off to PSA england HQ and i will pose the question to them
#34: Re: Maximum 50 code-clears for ECU Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:49 am ---- Could you please ask him/them about reseting the auto-adaptation of the engine ECU?
Just dis-connect battery or do it with PP2000 command?
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