#1: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:07 am ---- Just purchased a 206 gti 140 bhp V reg and I have a concern regarding the idle.
I was driving in london last night and on standstill the idle sometimes dropped to just below 800rpm, felt like it may cut out, however it didn't.
I don't know if this makes any difference to what it could be... but when I put the A/C on, straight away it went back to normal 900/1000rpm
Any help would be much appreciated
Cheers.
#2: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:14 am ---- Clean the stepper motor and airway.
#3: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: DanT, Location: Torbay, EnglandPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:25 am ---- As mentioned idle stepper motor would benefit from a clean, i'd be inclined to remove the whole throttle body myself and give it a good going over but you might find thats not necessary.
#4: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:41 am ---- How about cleaning the idle control valve, would that be necessary
#5: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:26 am ---- Idle control valve
Idle stepper motor
Same thing different name.
#6: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:37 pm ---- Isnt that the normal idle range? Is on my gti anyway, unless your engine is struggling to tick over?
#7: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Timon2210, Location: PalestinePosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:30 pm ---- Take a look at this,might give you a better explaning on what to do
#8: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:31 am ---- I don't think the idle is meant to be at just below 800rpm pal, engine struggles to stay on when it happens. However put the A/C on and it's fine again
#9: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:32 am ---- Cheers Timon will use that one. Pictures always help
#10: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:33 am ---- Used both the guides, couldn't find the map sensor on my engine however. Will update on results of the new year clean
#11: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:56 am ---- Can't help with picture of your map sensor location as I only have access to 1.4 8V at the moment.
#12: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:54 pm ---- Can you not explain it?
#13: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:16 pm ---- I could if I had a quick look at the car first and I am still at work. It's a long time since I have worked on a 1.6 and the MAP sensor may be in a different place than the 1.4 I will have access to.
Hopefully someone here will explain where the 1.6 MAP sensor is located.
#14: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:57 pm ---- I haven't got a 1.6, got a gti pal
#15: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:47 pm ---- Sorry, but either way it will be different to a 1.4 8V.
#16: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:55 am ---- On a gti it's under the throttle body.
#17: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:03 am ---- Just below it yea?
Clean it with the carb cleaner ok?
#18: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: LORDPSK, Location: CAERNARFONPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:43 am ---- Whats the alternator output with the engine running
#19: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:16 am ---- How do you find that out?
#20: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:19 am ----
kandlbarrett wrote:
Sorry, but either way it will be different to a 1.4 8V.
1.4 and 1.6 have the throttle body components in very similar places.
the GTi is a 2.0l EW engine and has the inlet on the front of the engine.
#21: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:56 am ---- I probably missed out the word probably from my statement. I wouldn't want to offer bad advice especially if someone couldn't recognise an ICV (stepper motor) when they saw one.
#22: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:01 am ---- I can recognise an ICV pal, just never heard it being referred to as a stepper motor before.
#23: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:52 pm ---- Thats odd. It was Sunday when I explained they were the same thing.
Wednesday and you are still asking where it is.
If you can recognise one that's a long time looking for it.
None of my posts have meant to be rude and it is a shame that you seem to have taken it that way.
Alternator output with engine running can be checked by putting a voltmeter across the battery whilst the engine is running. Cheap enough to buy on line or from Maplins.
#24: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:01 pm ---- I've done it all now pal so I'm not looking for it as I found the first day after I posted this.. and I'm don't think your rude. I've actually been told that a stepper motor and ICV are different things by a lot of people
#25: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:19 pm ---- ICV to be technically correct is actually an IACV = Idle Air Control Valve. It controls air flow only. The steeper motor is part of the ICV. How idle is controlled:-
The steeper motor moves a plunger into different positions to very precisely regulate the amount of air getting to the engine. The MAP and MAF in combination send signals to the ecu of the amount of air flowing and the ecu controls the amount of fuel supplied to match the air.
The clever bit is that the ecu is also monitoring rpm and sending signals to the stepper motor to open or close to keep idle rpm constant.
When you put a load on the engine, in your case switch on AC, the engine needs more air and fuel for the same rpm.
The fact that your rpm rose to 900 with ac on is probably because the plunger was no longer in a position where the dirt (carbon / oil build up) was making the plunger stick.
If there are no fault codes poor idle is usually ICV dirty. The fact that your idle returned when the AC was on reinforced the diagnosis.
#26: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:11 pm ---- Yea cheers mate! Thing is I've cleaned the whole throttle body, ICV/stepper motor, map sensor and its still doing it. There's no fault codes on the ECU either.
I serviced it this afternoon so we'll see if its still doing it after. Could it be the alternator?
#27: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:12 pm ---- Also why would I want to check the alternator output?
#28: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:17 pm ----
Jordy6969 wrote:
Also why would I want to check the alternator output?
Because the engine ecu is smart enough to raise the engine idle speed if needed when the battery voltage is low.
#29: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:29 pm ---- So how would that help me in any way to sort out this problem?
#30: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:48 pm ---- MrBSI the problem is car almost stalling that is corrected if AC is on ie. load on engine. That makes me think it isn't due to battery voltage low but perhaps worth a check.
I an still inclined to think idle control circuit and stepper motor sticking or defective.
Your knowledge and spotting the fuse board (ops another thread) is amazing and input always welcome. By the way how did you spot that. Surely not just from the Siemens sticker.
#31: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:33 pm ---- So you definitely would change the ICV. Would that be in any way affected by the AC being turned on/ off though?
#32: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:32 am ---- As previously described the AC puts an additional load on the engine so revs will drop lower and stepper motor will try to correct for that.
I could not say 100% that it will be stepper motor but am quite inclined to think so. Will your local scrappy let you try a second hand one and if it fixes it you pay if it doesn't you give it back?
I haven't re-read the whole thread but what checks have you done on MAP sensor or code reading?
Are you sure that the mounting area and hole that the stepper fit into are spotlessly clean.
#33: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:24 pm ---- Before I bought the car I checked the ECU for fault codes and it was all clear! I have cleaned the whole throttle body with the specified carb cleaner. I will have to ask the scrappy but I'm not sure if they will. Might have to just risk it, can't be too expensive from there!
What are the checks you can do regarding the map sensor?
Cheers for the help pal
#34: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:52 am ---- I don't think there are many checks you can do of the MAP sensor unless someone here can give output voltages or you can connect the car to PP and get readings from that. It may be worth removing the MAP sensor and spraying with carb cleaner. It is delicate so no scrapping or scrubing please.
When cleaning the throttle body did you remove the ICV (stepper motor) and clean that and the location it fits into. When the ICV is removed also spray carb cleaner into the hole that the ICV mounts into.
#35: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:03 am ----
kandlbarrett wrote:
I don't think there are many checks you can do of the MAP sensor unless someone here can give output voltages
To check the supply voltage disconnect MAP sensor with engine off. Switch on ignition and put a multimeter across terminals 2 and 3.The correct reading should be 5V
To check the operation, leave MAP sensor connected, switch on ignition and put a multimeter across terminals 1 and 2. the reading should be 4.4V
Start engine and leave at idle, check again across terminals 1 and 2. Correct reading is 1.3V
Rev engine in sharp bursts while checking voltage across terminals 1 and 2. It should read 4.4V briefly.
And some people don't think this site has enough technical information.
#36: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:18 am ---- Macca: thank you; that is useful information.
#37: Re: Idle concern 206 gti Author: Jordy6969, Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:18 pm ---- Can you let me know where these 3 terminals are because I am unsure
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