#1: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: daykes1, Location: Ledbury, HerefordshirePosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:51 am ---- Ive got a 1.6 16v xsi - recently lowered by 35mm which sits fine when there's nobody sat in the back. However, when it has it looks awful & feels very bumpy.
It has got brand new standard OE KYB (oil filled) shocks which i dont think are quite up to the job of dealing with the weight. I've read that gas shocks seem to be the way to go & wondered if anyone could advise which ones?
Does a 'shortened damper' mean it will sit lower? Or just less room to compress? Dont want to spend a fortune. Has anybody tried the apex?
APEX-7069100 (or eurocar parts number: ECP Part #: 975735071)
Would changing the torsion bars from 19.5mm to 20mm make enough difference to make it worthwhile?
#2: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: frenchfrog40, Location: MaidstonePosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:39 am ---- in my xsi iv lowered it 60mm - 70mm using Pi springs and shocks, they are cheap and work a treat.
#3: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: frenchfrog40, Location: MaidstonePosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:44 am ---- actually i just read your post again, if you dont want it bumpy then dont get them lol. they are quite stiff
#4: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:59 am ---- Shortened dampers just means the piston rod is shorter, so when under the same load the piston is not compressed as much (so more room to the bump stops)
As far as I know you can't get shortened rear shocks for a 206, just uprated ones, not unless they are expensive or custom jobs anyway.
I can't quite work out what the issue is just by reading your post, obviously sitting in the car would be better to understand. What are you trying to achieve by lowering it? As getting cheaper 'sport' shocks like spax, apex etc will just make the ride stiffer. The more you spend the more that has generally been invested in development trying to get the maximum performance characteristics whilst maintaining a comfortable - ish ride.
Lowering it by any amount on standard dampers will always make it worse (even if it isn't really noticeable) as they will have been designed for that specific ride height.
Any sort of aftermarket gas shocks will probably improve the situation but it's difficult to say without knowing exactly what you want out of it.
Thicker torsion bars are the same as stiffer springs, so the ride will be even more bumpy.
But in general any sort of lowering / aftermarket suspension components will make the ride more uncomfortable than standard.
#5: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:07 pm ---- Re read it a bit about it sitting lower, was only think about ride quality before
Shocks will not affect ride height (at least not more than a couple of mm when stationary)
Only torsion bar adjustment will alter the height
#6: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: daykes1, Location: Ledbury, HerefordshirePosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:21 pm ---- Ok, apologies if it sounds a little confusing.
Basically I want to reduce the rear suspension travel as it 'sags' & 'bounces' when Ive got people in the back.
#7: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Achillez, Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:40 pm ---- I replaced the front shocks and rear with Kyb, I hated them, never again. I kept the front on but replaced the rear to my old OEM oil shocks, so much better.
#8: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: daykes1, Location: Ledbury, HerefordshirePosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:46 am ---- Achillez: Yeah I think the rears definitely need replacing but feel they are going to need to be tougher than OEM. From what Ive read/heard gas shocks seem to be the only way forward.
Harry: The torsion bars confuse me. But I can say is that they have been adjusted by 1 notch which seems to = 35-40mm. It sits a tiny bit lower than the front which had 35mm lowering springs put on.
My aim is to try & keep the car sitting level with or without people in it.
#9: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:33 am ---- The torsion bars are basically springs, but act under torsion force instead of compression
The notch thing isn't advised as it exposes the axle pins to moisture. Best way is to just remove both bars and adjust the height the arm sits at - but that's another discussion.
It's ok I see what you mean now, you have two choices really. You will never stop the suspension travel distance with shock absorbers - that will only be achieved with thicker torsion bars. But stiffer shocks will absorb the force from the torsion bars more effectively stopping the bouncing effect and instead converting it into a much harsher ride (so bumpy, as appose to bouncy).
In regards to the cars ride height it will always reduce with weight. The only way to stop that is with thicker torsion bars. You may find stiff shocks help but that's most likely a coincidence, that's not what they are designed to do.
In my opinion replacing torsion bars for anything but trying to gain absolute maximum suspension performance is a waste of time.
Hope that helps.
#10: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: daykes1, Location: Ledbury, HerefordshirePosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:56 am ---- Thanks Harry that makes things a lot clearer. So shocks & gti torsion bars! With my car being a 1.6 quicksilver Im told by peugeot that my torsion bars are the 19.5mm (same as xsi) & gti 180's are 20mm. Does 5mm of extra steel really make much difference?
With regards to the adjusting of the torsion bars my mechanic does not understand how anyone can adjust them by anything less than 1 notch stages. I showed him this thread
I would like it done properly so if anyone is willing I'll pay!
#11: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:59 am ---- Not too sure on the quicksilver, I thought it was just a trim level
5mm would make hell of a difference but yes 0.5mm increments are noticeable, really doesn't need much material to make a difference. Even dedicated race cars tend to only run 23mm ones.
Short and sweet answer: Ditch the mechanic, after years of having the same conversations with mechanics I've given up explaining it. Had one tell me it was impossible to do it other than the notch method.. (well he didn't know what it was called but that's what it was). The seem to think they know best so isn't worth the hassle.
Where are you located?
#12: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:51 am ---- Can we have some pictures of this 35mm? Reason I ask is because the bumpstops come into play before the dampers run out of travel.
#13: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: daykes1, Location: Ledbury, HerefordshirePosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:10 am ---- Harry - Ok git 180 torsion bars it is &I shall start investigating! Yeah I think your right & just need to find someone who can do it the proper way! I live in Ledbury, Herefordshire.
Edward: I shall get some on here after Ive worked out how to upload pictures!
#14: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:16 am ---- Yes if you are going to replace the bars 180 or aftermarket ones are the only worthwhile upgrade.
I don't know anyone specific down that way most are in midlands /northants or down south.
Depending on how far you want to travel I could recommend a few (bearing in mind a local garage may charge more than what would just cover the petrol and do a crap job).
It's one of those things that's worth getting it done by someone who understands, can be done in a couple of hours tops if nothing is overly seized.
#15: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: daykes1, Location: Ledbury, HerefordshirePosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:34 am ---- Yeah I totally agree. I do want it done properly as I really don't want to be rear complete rear axles. Distance isn't a major issue as I feel the benefit will out weight the cost. Are you thinking of fellow 206 enthusiasts?
#16: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:16 am ---- There were a couple but I don't think they do it anymore
The only ones that do for reasonable sort of prices and know what they are doing that I can think of is Kris B (london) and pug1off (northants)
There a couple of guys in nuneaton that do an excellent job, but they just do it on the side really I don't if they have the time at the moment
I would guess places like constella would do it as they work a lot with french cars but can't guarantee for sure
If I can get hold of a unit later this year I would happily sort it, but I only try to do it on a gravel driveway as little amount of times as I can really
#17: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: daykes1, Location: Ledbury, HerefordshirePosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:11 am ---- Cheers Harry, I shall try & get hold of pug1off (northants) as hes a little closer than London. When do you reckon you'll have the unit, if you get it?
Having done car work on a gravel driveway before I COMPLETELY understand why you do as little as you can on it!
#18: Re: Rear shocks - trying to prevent car 'sitting down' Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:36 pm ---- It would be getting on near to winter time so don't want to make any promises!
I spent a week fully stripping and under sealing the whole shell had pains for a week after worst about mine is it's not even nice gravel it's sharp horrible stuff....
Pug1off are good, prices are pretty reasonable seeing as it's a reputable company and you know they will do a good job of it.
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but yes 0.5mm increments are noticeable, really doesn't need much material to make a difference. Even dedicated race cars tend to only run 23mm ones. 
