#16: Re: Diagnostics generic error code P0221 help? Author: mtempsch, Location: Gothenburg, SwedenPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:39 am ----
very_452001 wrote:
Ok I do the test including the new parameter you just mentioned. I was advised by member RichardEke above to check TPS while engine not running.
With the new parameter you mentioned do you want me to the run the test with the engine on or off?
Any other parameters apart pushing the gas pedal you want me to include in the test?
I'm definitely no expert on OBD, so you might want to wait for more input - but I'd imagine it be possible to do this with the engine not running.
I'd look for the actual values for the 'end positions' i.e. pedal fully up and fully down, as well as look for 'smooth movement' of the values as the pedal is slowly moved up and down, i.e. no jerking, plateaus, sudden jumps etc.
#17: Re: Diagnostics generic error code P0221 help? Author: RichardEke, Location: DoncasterPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:30 am ---- Hi there,
I've done it with the key in the ignition position, the 3rd position i think, the one where the fuel pump primes and the next half turn will start the car. Hope that makes sense.
You want to look for what Mtempsch said, value changes as you move your foot amd doesn't drop suddenly.
If your tool can draw a graph that might make it easier for you to see but by no means essential.
If all fails, do it with the car running but only go upto 3k or so.
Ok I do the test including the new parameter you just mentioned. I was advised by member RichardEke above to check TPS while engine not running.
With the new parameter you mentioned do you want me to the run the test with the engine on or off?
Any other parameters apart pushing the gas pedal you want me to include in the test?
I'm definitely no expert on OBD, so you might want to wait for more input - but I'd imagine it be possible to do this with the engine not running.
I'd look for the actual values for the 'end positions' i.e. pedal fully up and fully down, as well as look for 'smooth movement' of the values as the pedal is slowly moved up and down, i.e. no jerking, plateaus, sudden jumps etc.
update:
I did the diagnostic test again and the results are as follows:
TP is constant 9.8% when foot is off gas pedal
TP is at its highest 82.7% when I put my foot down on the gas pedal.
no sudden/jerky percentage changes when I control the gas pedal with my foot.
What conclusion can we come to from these results?
What conclusion can we come to from these results?
Looks like the pedal sensor and its wiring to the computer is OK, as it appears to read the values correctly - but I'm no expert and not sure exactly what the min/max values should be...
What conclusion can we come to from these results?
Looks like the pedal sensor and its wiring to the computer is OK, as it appears to read the values correctly - but I'm no expert and not sure exactly what the min/max values should be...
you mean APP sensor is ok?
So that leaves out the remaining possibility which is the TPS sensor at fault? Shall I buy a TPS sensor?
#21: Re: Diagnostics generic error code P0221 help? Author: mtempsch, Location: Gothenburg, SwedenPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:26 am ----
very_452001 wrote:
you mean APP sensor is ok?
So that leaves out the remaining possibility which is the TPS sensor at fault? Shall I buy a TPS sensor?
Sorry, looking back through the thread, it looks like you were reading the TPS values (and I got turned around somewhere...). If that's the case then I'd say the _TPS_ and associated wiring looks OK.
If you were reading the APP values then I'd say the APP and wiring is OK.
If you haven't checked the values for both sensors, check the one you haven't (if your reader allows it) - same test with pedal positions/movement.
It's also possible that it might be an intermittent break in wiring, connector or in a sensor, that might be more likely to show with engine running/car moving and actually read OK while static... those are the fun ones to find
A visual inspection of the involved wiring and connectors (unplug, check contact elements, replug, would be on my list before buying replacement parts...
#22: Re: Diagnostics generic error code P0221 help? Author: very_452001, Location: BirminghamPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:17 am ----
mtempsch wrote:
very_452001 wrote:
you mean APP sensor is ok?
So that leaves out the remaining possibility which is the TPS sensor at fault? Shall I buy a TPS sensor?
Sorry, looking back through the thread, it looks like you were reading the TPS values (and I got turned around somewhere...). If that's the case then I'd say the _TPS_ and associated wiring looks OK.
If you were reading the APP values then I'd say the APP and wiring is OK.
If you haven't checked the values for both sensors, check the one you haven't (if your reader allows it) - same test with pedal positions/movement.
It's also possible that it might be an intermittent break in wiring, connector or in a sensor, that might be more likely to show with engine running/car moving and actually read OK while static... those are the fun ones to find
A visual inspection of the involved wiring and connectors (unplug, check contact elements, replug, would be on my list before buying replacement parts...
I was reading the TP values. Is TP and TPS the same thing? I dont thing my diagnostic reads APP values but i will check to make sure.
Also is TPS and APP sensors dependent on each other meaning if 1 of them fails then the other wont work cause it rely on each other?
Yes it is a intermittent problem that I have and that problem is engine cuts off straight away after starting and i can get rid of this by revving the engine at the same time of starting the car.
So shall i pop open the hood and check connections to throttle or open the driver door and check connections behind the gas pedal?
#23: Re: Diagnostics generic error code P0221 help? Author: mtempsch, Location: Gothenburg, SwedenPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:53 am ----
very_452001 wrote:
I was reading the TP values. Is TP and TPS the same thing? I dont thing my diagnostic reads APP values but i will check to make sure.
Also is TPS and APP sensors dependent on each other meaning if 1 of them fails then the other wont work cause it rely on each other?
Yes it is a intermittent problem that I have and that problem is engine cuts off straight away after starting and i can get rid of this by revving the engine at the same time of starting the car.
So shall i pop open the hood and check connections to throttle or open the driver door and check connections behind the gas pedal?
Well, the throttle should follow the instructions given the system by the pedal.I think the base issue is that the engine management system doesn't like it when the pedal says one thing and the throttle something else... Who to believe, what to do?
Inspecting might reveal something. Or not. If it's intermittent then it's pretty much a guess which sensor to start with - unless you can tap in to collected knowledge as to which one is more likely to crap out...
Don't know if you could have your reader collect TPS data to a log while the engine runs - that might reveal if the fault is on the throttle side or not.
#24: Re: Diagnostics generic error code P0221 help? Author: very_452001, Location: BirminghamPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:31 am ----
mtempsch wrote:
very_452001 wrote:
I was reading the TP values. Is TP and TPS the same thing? I dont thing my diagnostic reads APP values but i will check to make sure.
Also is TPS and APP sensors dependent on each other meaning if 1 of them fails then the other wont work cause it rely on each other?
Yes it is a intermittent problem that I have and that problem is engine cuts off straight away after starting and i can get rid of this by revving the engine at the same time of starting the car.
So shall i pop open the hood and check connections to throttle or open the driver door and check connections behind the gas pedal?
Well, the throttle should follow the instructions given the system by the pedal.I think the base issue is that the engine management system doesn't like it when the pedal says one thing and the throttle something else... Who to believe, what to do?
Inspecting might reveal something. Or not. If it's intermittent then it's pretty much a guess which sensor to start with - unless you can tap in to collected knowledge as to which one is more likely to crap out...
Don't know if you could have your reader collect TPS data to a log while the engine runs - that might reveal if the fault is on the throttle side or not.
TP on my code reader is the same as TPS right? Ok i do the test again with the engine running and keep you guys updated.
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