#1: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:49 am ---- Hello all,
I lowered my car around 6 months ago, I bought KYB ultra St shocks with eibach sport line 50mm drop, I find it pretty rough on the roads, my question is if I go for springs with 35mm drop will I see the difference on the road? Is 15mm going to make my car any smoother or isn't it enough ? I don't really want to go back to OEM because it makes my car look like a monster truck + so much body roll.
I'd go for 20mm-30mm springs but I don't think they make them, can't find any, lowest I could find was 35mm
Thanks
#2: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:32 pm ---- Sounds like s***ty shocks might be half the problem. You've got decent springs with an unheard of shock. How much is the rear lowered?
#3: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:37 pm ---- KYB are average for dampers.
Gabriel would be a better choice for a damper ( wonder how many people on here have actually heard of them? )
#4: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:47 pm ---- Really? Not heard of kayaba Kyb? I haven't lowered the rear. The shocks cost me £160 I think and springs £95. If 35mm will feel the same I'd rather put it back standard, but I'd like to know if replacing 50mm to 35mm will make a difference in road driving.
The sport line eibach springs did in fact drop my car 2.5inchs which is actually more than 50mm, no idea what went wrong, I might of had the wrong springs to begin with.
#5: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:05 pm ---- anyone able to advise me on the above? anyone that does alot in suspension work? Also is it true that GTI are 10mm lower than standard 206? what if I replace my 50mm eibach with GTI springs? will they fit my xsi? 10mm is better than nothing. if its true & fits xsi shocks has anyone got part number for the gti springs
thanks
#6: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Lecktorious, Location: ScotlandPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:28 am ---- Eibach springs normally have a few different lowering sizes. Sounds like you may have bought the wrong springs.
#7: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:54 am ---- 10mm won't be noticeable, 35mm would be better. Why isnt the rear lowered? That won't help
#8: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:08 am ---- Rear is fine like it is. Regarding the front springs will 15mm do all that much of a different on the road? If not I'd rather just go back standard
#9: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:59 am ---- It isn't strictly about the drop. Though as you go lower the springs need to be quite stiff to avoid bottoming out and hitting the bump stops but a higher ride height allows slightly softer springs. You also need to consider what profile tyres you have.
You must consider that springs, shocks, tyre profile, anti-roll bar and car weight all work together to give overall ride quality and body control. Put your combination on a 5 series diesel BMW and I suspect it would feel very soft.
You really do need to take some advice from specialists on what works with what. A 50mm drop is quite a lot so it will need to be stiff to avoid bottoming out. 35mm is less and leaves more room for a softer spring / shock combination. Perhaps add a slightly taller profile tyre and you will get what you are looking for. To control body roll you ought to be looking for stiffer anti-roll bars rather than just doing that via springs.
#10: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:28 am ---- How do you know how hard/soft a spring is without purchasing it, I can find info on Max axle load, is this what I go for? Heavier it is the harder?
#11: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:45 am ---- Every retailer should be able to get the spring rate for you. It used to be given in pounds (lbs) / inch. In other words the amount of weight needed to compress the spring one inch.
Remember though that dampers (please don't call them shock absorbers because to be technically correct the springs are the shock absorbers) must be matched to the spring rate.
If your dampers are to stiff for your springs you can suffer from the dampers preventing spring compression or rebound (a very harsh ride) and over repeated bumps the suspension will run out of stroke.
The opposite of this is where springs are to stiff for the dampers and then you get a pogo effect because the damper can't stop the spring bouncing.
It maybe that you have both good quality springs and dampers but that they are mismatched to each other or your car.
Finally do remember that roll in long sweeping bends will rely almost as much on your anti roll bar as your springs.
#12: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:53 am ---- PS. Having lowered your car have you done anything about correcting steering geometry. I bet your front toe and camber are now quite a long way out and you will get severe front tyre wear and possibly less ultimate grip than in a standard car.
#13: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 pm ---- I'll have to look up for the spring / damper rate, when you say front toe and camber you mean have I got the car tracked since lowering? If so yea I've done that.
When I first replaced my dampers and lowered springs, I've got to say the drive was nice, perfect tbh, but now it keeps bottoming out and very bumpy, maybe because they've settled? So if I'm bottoming out this means my dampers are to soft for the springs?
I might buy eibach pro kit 30mm drop and replace my eibach sport line 50mm drop, I just hope I haven't destroyed my dampers.
#14: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:02 pm ---- Now we seem to be getting somewhere - why didn't you tell the whole story to start with. It could be that your new dampers have failed. Also are you certain that you don't have a broken spring - the top coil can break and that is quite difficult to see. A shorter spring is effectively a stiffer spring and also puts the car closer to the bump stops.
#15: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:09 am ---- Springs looks to be complete, if its my dampers I'm in trouble, warranty won't cover faults caused my lowered springs, I was hoping this was because of the suspension settling and not faulty, I cut my bump stops in half, steering is a lot easier to turn and it actually absorbs little bumps but car is all over the road now :s , but still bottoms out sometimes over speed bumps depending on speed. I'm pretty sure before cutting bump stops my car was sitting on top of them, how do I test dampers without taking them off? Don't wanna buy new springs and find out my dampers are shot and I don't wanna buy new dampers and use old springs just to kill the dampers again 3 months down the line and I really don't wanna have to purchase dampers and springs again. Think my option is to go buy cheap OEM dampers and springs
#16: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:43 pm ---- You can try the bounce test. Push down hard on the wing and let go quickly and the car should bounce back up past normal ride height and then settle down. If it bounces more than that the dampers are knackered. The problem you may have is that some lowering springs are so stiff you can't push the car down to get a decent bounce for a good test. Having two people press on the wing may help but stiff springs can make it hard to really test the dampers.
The only other way is to take it apart. Really bad dampers have almost no resistance when moved by hand but partially failed ones really need a side by side test against new dampers.
It sounds like you may have knackered the dampers by regularly bottoming them out after cutting the bump stops.
#17: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:21 pm ---- I might as well buy coilovers, will be a lot cheaper for me
#18: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:38 pm ---- Probably a few people willing to buy your springs.
#19: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:33 pm ---- Anyway, thanks Kandlbarrett for the advice once again on suspension components. KYB have offered to send out replacements and pick my old dampers at the same time, you reckon if I run the eibach pro kit 30mm the same thing will happen eventually?
#20: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:51 am ---- That is a bit difficult to know. It depends on why they failed was it due to poor manufacture or because they were coming to the end of their stroke before the car was on the bump stops. If it was due to the dampers coming to the end of their stroke then yes they will fail again - as will any other damper that does this.
I haven't actually looked at the bump stop arrangement on a 206 but it might be worth removing the springs refitting dampers only and then lower the car slowly back onto the ground and see which is bottoming first - damper or bump stop.
If it is the damper then you still have the option of fitting new or second hand bump stops and either leaving them standard or removing a bit at a time but not so much that the damper gets to the end of its stroke.
#21: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: Achillez, Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:14 am ---- I understand, so to be totally honest I could have the incorrect bump stop on my car, I won't have time to remove the components until next week, but I could add extra bump stop now and cable tie it to see if this will help. Of course I could be way to late now as I might of killed my dampers
#22: Re: 206 front springs advice Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:11 pm ---- Yes I think you understand now and I imagine it is way to late for your dampers but it might not be it might just be the damper bottoming before hitting the bump stop. You need to get the dampers off, seperated from the springs and see if they appear to be working OK. You also need to make sure the dampers aren't bottoming before the car hits the bump stop.
If you can get enough weight into or on the front of the car you might be able to check the bottoming issue without taking anything apart.
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