#1: Both Electric Windows Failed Author: john949, Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:19 am ---- 2006 1.4 Look
Both front windows suddenly stopped working. Checked fuses 9 & 12 and replaced the switch (7 pin type with one touch) Still nothing. I'm down to a broken wire somewhere or a failed relay in the BSI. Anybody got any other suggestions?
Does anybody know where the widow relay is in the BSI so I can check the coil continuity etc. I read that you can get the back off the BSI but you're then faced with the back of a PCB.
I have to say that fixing this is a lot harder than I would have expected. The only wiring diagram that I can find is called 'typical electric windows' and bears little relation to my car ( no rear electric windows and all the wire numbers are different).
Thanks
#2: Re: Both Electric Windows Failed Author: mtempsch, Location: Gothenburg, SwedenPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:32 pm ---- To the best of my knowledge the BSI isn't involved other than supplying the power to the switch (and through that to the motors).
Power and ground gets fed into the switch unit, then the switches connect them to the two wires that goes to the motor in the door, changing the polarity around depending on if the windows goes up or down.
Checking that you've got +12 in the plug to the switch is the 1st and obvious, but also check that the ground wire actually connects to ground.
#3: Re: Both Electric Windows Failed Author: john949, Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:18 am ---- According to the wiring diagram there is a relay in the BSI that provides the power to the switch. Although the vagueness of the diagram makes understanding how and when it is energised guesswork. Maybe the thin wire on the switch earths the coil to turn the power on, but if it is permanently on then what's the point of it?
As you can tell I'm pretty frustrated by the lack of information available for this car compared to many others that I have worked on. For example the wiring diagram gives contact numbers on the switch but the switch itself isn't marked, thus it's really not that easy to tell which pins are the power and ground to the switch! Throw in the extra complexity of one touch on the driver's window and......
I'm beginning to think that the best plan would be to wire my own power supply to the switch rather than risk destroying the BSI. Or maybe eBaying another BSI and destroying that to find out where how the wretched windows are wired.
#4: Re: Both Electric Windows Failed Author: mtempsch, Location: Gothenburg, SwedenPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:12 am ----
john949 wrote:
According to the wiring diagram there is a relay in the BSI that provides the power to the switch. Although the vagueness of the diagram makes understanding how and when it is energised guesswork. Maybe the thin wire on the switch earths the coil to turn the power on, but if it is permanently on then what's the point of it?
As you can tell I'm pretty frustrated by the lack of information available for this car compared to many others that I have worked on. For example the wiring diagram gives contact numbers on the switch but the switch itself isn't marked, thus it's really not that easy to tell which pins are the power and ground to the switch! Throw in the extra complexity of one touch on the driver's window and......
I'm beginning to think that the best plan would be to wire my own power supply to the switch rather than risk destroying the BSI. Or maybe eBaying another BSI and destroying that to find out where how the wretched windows are wired.
My take on the diagram is that the relay should provide power to the switch, pulling from fuse 12, with the key in accessory and ignition position[s]
Control to the relay comes from the ignition switch assembly The diodes prevents 'back-feeding' the ignition from the accessory and the other way around.
The oneshot function for the drivers window shouldn't confuse anything as it's AFAIK fully contained within the switch.
OK, just had a look out in the car to verify:
Ground is on a yellow green wire in a corner In the same row, next to it is an unused position (all other positions used). Then, next position again in the same row there's a beige/skin coloured wire that gets +12V with the key in the accessory and ignition positions.
Hope that helps. BTW, ground wire had permanent continuity to ground (I measured to the barrel of the cig lighter socket)
Can't really make sense of the wire positions in the plug logically, compared to the diagram which had me expecting the +12 on one of the corners and ground 'one in' and in the other row, compared to +12.
(based on a layout scheme like:
1A 2A 3A 4A
1B 2B 3B 4B
but clearly that's not it, and either the Peugeot engineers use some weird scheme, or the diagram is incorrect)
#5: Re: Both Electric Windows Failed Author: john949, Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:30 pm ---- Thanks for trying but this is just getting silly. I do have a green/yellow wire, but it's in the middle next to the unused position. The one in the corner next to the unused position is brown and I think this is the power in. I then have three grays and an orange which are the outputs to the window motors? plus a thin white wire, which I think is something to do with controlling the relay or maybe some kind of current sense to tell when the window is fully up or fully down.
#6: Re: Both Electric Windows Failed Author: john949, Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:31 pm ---- Finally got it sorted. The Multiplex wiring diagrams on this site say that the windows are on Fuse 12 - not so on my car. I was about to give up and wire the window switch direct to the cigar lighter power feed, but this wasn't working either. The same diagrams say the cigar lighter is on Fuse 22. Guess what happened when I replaced fuse 22. So when they say 'typical' wiring, you need to be aware that your car might be very different.
As I ended up with a spare switch I took it apart to confirm the wiring and try to find out how it works. The passenger window is just a couple of of changeover switches (just like the diagram!). One touch uses two small relays in the same configuration as the changeover switches. The relays are controlled by a custom chip connected to the two-stage switches. The thin wire is still a bit of a mystery. It uses a transistor to pull an input to the chip low when the voltage on the wire goes high, but what the chip does when the input goes low is unclear to me.
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