#1: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic UPDATE PAGE 6 Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:27 am ---- Here I will post all the old updates to the car and then follow on with the new stuff
Some of it is historical, for instance, linked with companies I no longer deal with on a personal level. However I'd rather that this was just ignored really. The real updates will come in time. IE what I'm doing now. Under my own steam. With the car.
Hope you enjoy. Last edited by MEGA on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total
#2: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:28 am ---- Hiiiii all.
Well, finally we have started active development on the P206 race car.
The goals are firstly to run the car at standard weight, and then to strip her out and run again. Only once shes been completely stripped to bare bones will we start working on the engine.
For anyone who didn't know, the 206 project car is my old car. This is why I am so actively involved etc when I am now a BMW boy. Below is how she used to look:
I might as well get on and post progress. Thread continues.
May 9th 2009
I actually got to CPH's place on the 8th, Friday night. We had some beers, had some arguments, had some pasta, and generally a good time was had by all. But this is not relevant to the project.
On the 9th, jnoiles, maksimi, CPH, Dynamo and MEGAginge set off to start work on the project.
Here is how she is when we started, after I parked the car into a Passat last November...
You may remember how the boot used to look:
First step must be removing all this damn dynamat. My tip to anyone else is DO NOT PUT DYNAMAT IN A CAR YOU WANT TO TRACK IN FUTURE. FFS. f*****g obvious, but everything is easier with hindsight.
Dissaproving look:
Work begins:
Just this rubbish removed from the car saved over 2 kilos:
Dynamat:
At this point, Dynamo helpfully suggested I should wear gloves to stop cutting my hands up.
Here is the reason:
Here are the gloves:
Yes. They are latex.
Here is the result:
.............
...
D'oh
So we get on. Front door cards:
The extent of the problem. Took HOURS to get all this off: You see the inner skin of the door:
and this is how far in it goes:
We took a break from dynamat as we were going insane, to do some work on the chassis. Once all the panels were taken off, we realise that only one part of the chassis is in any way damaged, and there is no structural damage.
In true clarkson style:
Can you tell what we are doing?
OK:
Yes. Our friend Mr Jack will help!
As good as new:
Car full stripped down of damage:
And now the GSR filter gets even more air than usual:
Unfortunately the outside of the car was now prepared for the new panels.. which meant only one other job to do
We also dedided to sound deaden my ass:
Bloody horrible stuff. Ruined my jeans tbh, ca't get it off!
Ah, but we do need to take out more than just the Dynamat, Stock deadening must go to.
Out came the seats and now we have the racing double bed interior:
Sticker:
(More on this later)
We removed all this skip of crap from the car
Everything out, so out comes carpets:
Meanwhile, in Dynamat land: Front doorcards slowly being stripped..
and WE ARE FINISHED with dynamat! :
These were 2 bags out of 7 we removed of dynamat. Including other sound deadening types (dyno liner and wood) we estimate well over 20 kilos of sound deadening were added into the car. Bad mega!
Now I forced Peter and his lascerated hands to help with the internals again...
Finally removed:
And we begin work reassembing the car on the grass:
More deadning removed, before you see the end of the days progress:
SO THATS IT for today. Thanks for reading Last edited by MEGA on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:28 am; edited 2 times in total
#3: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:29 am ---- posting by the angry german:
CPH wrote:
Actually, the work started much earlier than on May 9th 2009.
I had to drive it over to my place after we managed to start it one night and went through parts of London with Jsaon chasing me to get it to park in front of my house. It was well over 20 miles without power steering.
Since, I removed the MDF board that was left from the ICE install and quitze some nasty parts of the dynamat.
The MDF was over 6.3kg on its own.
Mega, thanks for silicone it to the dynamat. I had to break it up into many bits.
But there is quite some more to the idea of this car than just turning it into a race car.
When the idea came up to build this car the point was getting a car that is as close to a standard 1.1 as possible.
Mega's car isn't but quite close to it. One of the advantages is that he had quiter some extra weight in, which seems to be around the 100kg. A Peugeot 206 1.1 3door is supposedly 984kg with liquids. another 100kg apart from the driver and a few things make this car a real snail.
This was one of the reasons, why goinjg into this project. We are able to give live data alongside the theoretical evaluation, which is for the ones doing performance tuning quite some help to understand what us professionals think, do and aim to achieve.
Going back to the snail Mega created from an already slow 206 we have a 1.1 engine with a nominal power output of 60bhp of just under 1200kg with driver. The actual power output is closer to 70bhp, which equates to about 58bhp per ton.
The car without his over weight ICE and whatever went in with it (dyanmat etc) at 100kg lighter would have started with over 63bhp per ton. Although this isn't anaything to bragg with to have the same power to weight ratio as the ICEd version Mega chose would have to increase power by about 6bhp!
This doesn't seem to be a lot, but equates to what a re-map on its own would contribute.
But this is not the only point. We intend to take the car on the drag strip as well as on a track and bring power back to standard. As we remove the weigth we will record every part with exact weight and where it was located and will put the same weight in the same position as far as it is possible in order to get realistic track times as a comparison.
The weight reduction on the car is going to be in several stages. We look into loosing every gram of weight not needed in the car without loosing the comfort of driving such as noise, looks and practicality.
Alongside this we increrase the specific power output of the engine with external mods and then as the next engine tuning stage go into the internals. At this point we step over the comfort threshold and turn the car into a roadworthy track car.
Watch this space.
#4: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:29 am ---- We can summarise this as follows:
Original car weight: 985kg.
Sub install weight alone: 65kg.
Full audio install weight, EXCLUDING dynamat is 80kg.
Dynamat weight was 19kg.
So we can say the car including the full sound install, reinforcement etc was 1085kg. Add to this an 85 kilo MEGAginge and we have 1170kg Weight including driver.
The power of the car on paper is 60 BHP. The initial rr figures showed mine to be 69 BHP. This gives a BHP per ton weight of 58 BHP per tonne.
The small performance mods already done, GSR and induction, leave the BHP per tonne rating at 67 BHP per tonne.
So that £400 cost for GSR induction wealded results of 9BHP per tonne gains or a BHP/£ cost of £4.09 per BHP.
Removing the weight we have done so far, 100 kgm, gained 6 BHP per tonne from the standard car. This is a BHP/£ cost of £0 per BHP. Do not underestimate the importance of weight loss. We can surmise that the standard car with induction and remap,whilst around a track is now infact running at 73BHP per tonne. This is still including driver. Just the car? 79 BHP per tonne.
The first milestone (100) is not so far away. The GTi 138 produces approx 112 bhp per tonne (based on 1025 / 126 which is not an unfair measurement of a stock car, power and weight) so its not too far until we are a GTi beater. This is ofcourse speaking just in terms of "BHP sells cars". We also want to hugely increase the handling potential of the car, which is something only lap times can measure. So we will be setting up some time trials in the future
#5: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:29 am ---- Once 100% of the performance is squeezed out of the 1.1, we do an engine conversion having already the perfect track car just awaiting more juice - and can sell the race prepped 1.1 engine and associated gubbins to someone whos interested.
there's no limit to how far we could go. This isn't my daily driver so being off road for months while sorting something isn't a problem.
At this time we've only explored 5% of the possibility of tuning this car.
Either way, when we beat 180s and BMWs around a track in a 1124cc car, I see how you feel about it then
#6: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:30 am ---- May 20th 2009
UPDATE from today.
Me and the german did the 9h approx round trip to the wonderful land of bolton to collect the following:
New Bonnet
New Bumper
New D/S Front Wing
New Radiator Housing
New D/S Crystal Head Light
New D/S Inner Head Light Surround
New front grille
Chances to be at FCS? 50/50. But time is booked none the less. Last edited by MEGA on Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
#7: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:31 am ---- Sat 30th May 2009
OK GUYS. The long awaited update is here. We've now spent another day working on the ricer, sorry, racer project.
First of all once again huge thanks to CPH (Peter), Dynamo (Marcus) and jnoiles (Jason) for their patience with me and unerring assistance with project RAWR.
It continues:
10am, work begins on the car. First of all we should mention all the new parts which I picked up last week with CPH. We travelled up to Bolton to collect the parts, and the old addage (OK, not really) "How much crap can you fit in a punto" was answered fairly well I must say!!!
Bear in mind you can see stuff up to the top of the seats here:
Peter fitted the bonnet during the week for testing, so this is how she looked when I arrived:
Almost a car, but with a few obvious panel fitment and damage issues
The extent of the problem:
So within 10mins, shes stripped back again, ooh err I can see her filter! No respect!
Bumper off in public, no class!
This is the damage to the light housing. I've had word that we just aren't going to get this through a VIC test with the broken metal, and as we don't have a panel welder to hand, all our hard work 2 weeks ago with the jack to bend the metal out is in vein.
Its going to have to come off...
..............MEANWHILE, IN INSANE OBSESSIVE SOUND DEADENING REMOVAL LAND:
But back in the real world:
Lookie lookie, air conditioning stuff!
So how is we going to get the radiator surround (and fan housing) off the car with the air con in the way?
Seriously, how?
..............MEANWHILE, IN INSANE OBSESSIVE SOUND DEADENING REMOVAL LAND:
BTW, I can't really explain what the sheet is for
So, that lighting piece.. It needs to come out. Annoyingly it was spot welded on in 12 places, as well as the 2 bolts:
DRILL DRILL
MORE DRILL DRILL
Whats missing from this picture: ?? ( Have you been following the hints? To be revealed later on in the thread! )
Yeah, that light surround, we f****d it up. Good thing we are drilling it off now... Too late to change our minds
We couldn't drill out all the spot welds 100% as we were worried about going through the chassis panels, so what a drill can't do, a hammer can:
AND OFF:
Old vs. new:
Totally stripped car. no longer any damage on the vehicle. Awaiting new parts. But shes very naked at the moment!
You worked out what we have done yet?
..............MEANWHILE, IN INSANE OBSESSIVE SOUND DEADENING REMOVAL LAND:
(Yes, "extra wires" are the next victims )
..But in the real world, "Is that jack stable enough? I'm not sure. I'll stick my head under to check!
Nope, that garden trellis isnt doing the trick. I am not amused.
Under orders, he goes under regardless:
AND WHATS THIS:
Yes. Air conditioning compressor. no more air con for mega. Obviously the air con was professionally degassed and I have no pictures of this process. Any speculation that we just vented the air con into the atmosphere will be seen as slander and action will be taken
What gets hammered off must be replaced. So the road becomes bolt and nut city:
New unit test fit:
..............MEANWHILE, IN INSANE OBSESSIVE SOUND DEADENING REMOVAL LAND:
But in the real world, new crystal driver side head light
I've finally repaired her black eye, it only took 6 months!
Happy. A job well done lads. Thanks Jase!!
So finally:
Heres the car after our days work:
VIC test booked, as to my eyes shes road legal now. See you at FCS! Aslong as we get the test in time...
SUMMARY:
Car is now:
Ready to go back on road.
Running, battery charged
New wing, bonnet, rad housing, headlight trim, headlight fitted
Air con removed.
Looking good
Should be at FCS.
See you soon Last edited by MEGA on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:29 am; edited 2 times in total
#8: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:31 am ---- post from the german...
CPH wrote:
To put Mega's report into practical information I translate his .-- .- ..-. ..-. .-.. . into useable values.
The total weight gained (added to car and driver) when installing his beloved ICE was about 9%, which negated on the performance front the effort put in to increase power in turn increasing the 0-60mph by over 1 second.
I will do some acceleration testing within the next two weeks (as soon as VIC test is passed).
The removal of the aircon has released a bit of power, which can be used to burn the rubber.
We started at 62bhp per ton before Mega's performance upgrades. The performance mods brought the car to just over 68bhp per ton increasing the power by over 9%. This is at the same time an increase of over 9% of the power to weight ratio.
Removing the first 100kg from how the car started (with ICE) got the car from 62bhp per ton to just under 69bhp per ton.
We have reduced the weight further freeing it from unecessary stuff that won't sacrifice any comfort in real term. This is so far over 30kg.
Without the engine mods this equates to 70.4bhp. With the added power from the mods so far the increase stands at 78.5bhp per ton. This leaves us currently 1.5bhp per ton behind a 1.4 8v.
Since starting from the overweight car (driver and ICE included) the 0-60 time has come down by over 20%! This is in excess of 2.5 seconds!
Next target is to increase the power to weight ration exceeding the standard 1.4 8v. This means that we either have to loose another 20kg, which is not impossible to achieve by removing items that aren't lowering the comfort of driving.
Alternatively we can increase power slightly by replacing the factory back box with a performance back box.
We can even set our sites on the performance on the 1.4 16v, which is in reach. This is another 9.5bhp per ton to go. To achieve this on weight reduction alone would be a tough call, because we would have to shed another 110kg. By removing stuff we either loose the comfort neede for a relaxed daily use or we have to invest in replacement materials that aren't cheap.
How we reach this target before Rawr is going to be turned into the track car will be soon reported about in this thread.
#9: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:32 am ---- Aug 31 2009
Ape, Seb. My car is my car again. I drove it back to NW London this evening.
You guys free to meet Luton next Sat to do some playing around?
Let me know. Would be good to catch up.
Just ordered OMP steering wheel / boss. Got the 4 point harness and CF seat going in at weekend.
Its still a 1.1 but its a damn good shell to be building up from now
Ring trip to feel out the absolute limits of the current chassis - and then decide what to do next.
OK, so - the steering rack and pump turned up. Its huuuuuuge in the box, didn't realise how much pipe work there was.
Lets hope we only need to replace the pump and can then re-sell the rack. Thats what it looked like from my investigation anyway...
I think with the pump here; We are on for tonight.
Brake pads also here... No wheel yet but its early days for delivery today
#11: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:33 am ----
copeyGT wrote:
Whats the power to wieght o this now then mega??
Approximate weight of the car without driver is something under 800 kilos now. We haven't taken her to a weighbridge but the stock weight is 915 approx without driver and we've weighed everything thats been removed.
This is with half a tank of fuel.
800 kilos with 76 bhp puts the car at 95 bhp/tonne.
A standard 206 1.4 8v has 75bhp stock and again 915 approx standard without driver.
This means just from weight loss, induction and remap we are now CONSIDERABLY faster than a 1.4.
As for the 1.6: The 8v 1.6 had 88 bhp per tonne last one we roaded, and I think its still an aluminium block so the weight is the same again.
So you can say the work we've done will gain me just under 500cc's in theoretical engine capacity so far. The other benefits are the extremely shortened stopping distance and corner entry speed possible due to the weight loss - therefore allowing much more on-track gains than is visible from the numbers above.
Heres on more measurement. If I were to put a standard 138 engine in from a 2.0L, and assume that the weight gain from the iron block, uprated gearbox, mani, so on and so forth were to add 60 kilos (which I think is pessimistic)...
Theoretical rawr bhp/tonne with standard 2.0 Gti:
138bhp, 860kg, 160 bhp/tonne
And then, with GSR induction, red.dot remap and full torque exhausts or similar system, we've known the 138 lump to produce more like 157-165. I'll take the lowest number:
157bhp, 860kg, 182 bhp/tonne
So this slag already has some serious embarrassment potential for "just a 1.1" - but once I'm done with it?
To put this into real world terms,
The megane 182 produces 182bhp and weighs 1150kg appox. This puts the power output down at 158bhp/tonne.
An E92 bmw 335i produces 302 bhp and weighs 1594 kgs. This is a power output of 189 bhp.
Well... Keeping up with a 335 would keep me pretty happy, knowing where this car started life Who knows if its possible.
Also I didn't mention; but I'm sure we can do more weight saving just yet
#12: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am ----
Ape wrote:
Its still a 1.1
very valid point Ape.. And one I agree with.
I'm not trying to be the advocate of "My p**s small 1 litre car is actually as good as your evo" or anything of the like. I know its slow, its much LESS slow - but its still very slow.
In my eyes, this stage (weight saving, stripping, getting back on the road) was only ever a precursor to the engine transplant.
Eventually, it will be brutal. You know I'm a nutter and won't give up till I flip it lol..
#13: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am ---- Well... Heres an update.
AS OF AUGUST 1st, the car was stripped out - but immobilised. We had no idea what the problem was. no idea. Very bad times.
I went and picked up shannon, Trick247 on 206info/Performance206 - and he spent the entire day working on the car on 2 seperate days to get it all running!!! and guess what, the legend of a guy sorted me out. I really cannot thank him enough. After the end of the day, the car was once again alive.
UNTILL....
So on we go. Heater matrix removed, and coolant pipe joined within the engine bay.
We will eventually blank this directly on the head, but lack of time breeds a quick approach..
Whats left on the inside of the car:
Brutal
Heater matrix on floor:
And how the BEAST looks from outside now:
BTW, we removed the headliner:
And some more wiring:
Leaving us with this mess:
So I cut some stuff, re-soldered and cleaned it all up - then insulated...
Anyway, I cleaned her up enough to drive her home - and alas, the great purfleet expeditions would be a thing of the past from now on. THE BEAST IS COMING HOME!!!
I bought the BEAST a welcome home present:
Before:
After:
So then, next on the list, is fixing the power steering. You can see the cause of the problem:
fortunately, along with my new brake pads - I'd bought a new pump and (just incase) rack from ebay for the princely sum of £80.
I hire in my 2 resident slaves:
And before you know it, the engine bay is complete - and 100% of the contents perform their function correctly now! A biiig step up from where things used to be...
Clearly however, there's still work to do inside :
But I'm sure once he's finished under the bonnet, he will lend a hand
THE FINAL PRE GERMANY PREP...
What happened next, was such a blur of irritation, swearing, screaming, kicking, screaming, and so on and so forth - that I actually did not document it at all. No pictures, no nothing. But let me summarise.
Fitted new brake discs
Fitted racing seat to adjustable seat mount
Fitted new brake pads
Cleaned brake setup
Fitted OMP steering wheel
Re-fitted dash
Re-mounted center console
Re-fitted glovebox
Sprayed driver side wing
Ground out last remaining sound deadening
Got old alloy wheel nuts drilled out
Fitted new tyres all around
Total cost: £500-£600
Total man hours: 3045892349082402911 and 11 minutes
Total frustration: absolute.
Main issue: Peugeot is made of cheese
Secondary issue: Parts not made of cheese are infact razor sharp.
Tertiary issue: I hate Peugeots.
Either way, we got it ALL done. I'm now gutted I didn't document it all!!! but ze car was ready for her nurburgring experience...
Topic on this will follow once I've got the rest of the pics together: But heres one teaser pic..
Last edited by MEGA on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total
#14: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: MEGA, Location: Harrow, LondonPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:39 am ---- Pics of the car sept 12th nurburgring
Project 1.1. Now I could start a whole topic on this again.. Obviously! And in time I probably will.
I still have RAWR. She got fully stripped out and a racing seat put in before my trip to Nurburgring in Sept. Sadly from Sept-Jan I've had no funds and no money to spend. Therefore she's not moved back then.
Due to costs involved and severence of ties with some tuning companies, I've been looking at a low-cost solution to the power. Current plan is possibly a 1.6 8v block, and some work on the internals and exhaust. The other option is to wait another year and do the 3.0 406 v6 transplant that I really wanted to do. Estimated cost on that in the custom fabrication and so on, plus sourcing the engine, would probably be close to 5k.
Anyway here are some pics of her. She's not clean, because she's a track slag. Not a pet to be prettied and detailed. As you can see above I save that for the BM
#15: Re: MEGAginge's Epic 1.1 beast topic Author: Dillon, Location: KentPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:28 am ---- Epic read that. Good project though was a really decent car when all the ice was installed complete turn around to have it as a stripped out racer but as you say hindsight is a wonderful thing
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