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Forums › The Car › 206 Problems › Horn and Fuse nightmare


 
 

Horn and Fuse nightmare
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Spotfist
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:21 pm Up
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Hay all,

So my cars horn doesn't work (it's a 99 gti 130), I managed to get the grill off and check for corrosion on the wires going to the horn as per others suggestions on here but the connectors were nice and clean. I can hear the relay clicking when I press on the steering wheel so I thought it must be the horn that is gone, I replaced the horn but still no parp.

The next thing i wanted to try was identifying the fuse for the horn, I have swapped the relays but every diagram I found is different to mine and in some cases refers to a fuse that is like a 40a large fuse?!?!

I can't tell if I have a fuse missing or the wrong fuse in there, if I can't ill have to take out and test every fuse Sad any ideas would be much appreciated

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MrBSI
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:26 pm Up
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Have you got 12 volts at the horn connector plug when you activate the horn push?

Its a very simple circuit.

1 wire straight to earth.

The other wire will have +12 volts on it when the horn push is pressed.

2016 Peugeot 308 Puretech 1.2 petrol 130bhp Allure hatch with panoramic roof & NAC retrofit.
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Spotfist
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:35 pm Up
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Cheers,

No I haven't but will check tomorrow, because the contacts looked clean as a whistle I thought it had to be the horn so there is now a new one on but as I said it still doesn't work.

I assumed that there would be a fuse after the relay so I could check if there is current getting there and then the connection to the horn, I could then track down where the problem is at the relay or at the horn. I didn't want to be guessing where to chop the wires.

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gazza82
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:28 am Up
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Spotfist wrote:
I assumed that there would be a fuse after the relay so I could check if there is current getting there and then the connection to the horn, I could then track down where the problem is at the relay or at the horn. I didn't want to be guessing where to chop the wires.

Fuse is normally before any relay ...

It could be the relay has also failed. Still activating but not letting power through. Check that you are getting power to the horn connection as MrBSI said.

(BTW shouldn't there be TWO horns on a GTi?)

Down to just the 1.4 HDi. Cayman Green 2.0i CC sold.
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Spotfist
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:20 am Up
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Thanks I tried to replace the relay with one of the others in fact I tried all of them and still nothing, I will get a meter on it ASAP.

Not sure on two horns, I know there is the alarm horn as well. This still works as I set the alarm off to check.

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MrBSI
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:20 am Up
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GTI 180 has twin horns.

Standard GTI has normal single horn.

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Spotfist
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 11:59 am Up
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Right so I got a meter on it today and when pushing the steering wheel I get a reading of 12.8v so I assume the new horn is also broken. is there any easy way to test for sure as the horn was apparently tested before being shipped.
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gazza82
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:44 pm Up
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Run twelve volts through it ..

Thanks MrBSI ... sure the CC has two .. I know the HDi only has one ..

... or at least it did before the air-horn upgrade ... Laughing

Down to just the 1.4 HDi. Cayman Green 2.0i CC sold.
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MrBSI
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:52 pm Up
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My 206 has got 405 twin tones on, my project 206 has gained a set of 307 twin tones.

Horn is known weak spot on the 206 so when a repair is needed I went with something better then original spec Laughing

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Spotfist
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:03 pm Up
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Cheers for that, sorry to be a pain chaps but one last questions.

In this image (sorry just grabbed the best looking image I could find from google)

 


the horn on the left you have the bit of plastic where the terminals are, you see two shiny bolts holding the plastic connector to the horn but i have seen other horns where this is the location of the terminals. if i put a meter on these two points should I also get a reading as i tried this earlier but got nothing.

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Sim
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:45 pm Up
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If bolts were terminals, you wouldn't want to honk whilst driving throug flood, in order not to electrocute anyone Smile

Also e.g. due to through heavy rain, such things are never externalised, and if you get 12V around bolts, means that something inside's gotten caked up

2.0 HDi, year 2000 (Lockdown 1.0 beater)
GTi 180, year 2004 (in hibernation after endless driving fun in 2019, queued for "cambelt in tight spaces")
Missus' 1.6 16v CC, year 2007 (rust-ic underbody sandblast pending)
£50 1.4 HDi, year 2002 (seatless transporter, Lockdown 2.0 beater)
..couple more Franco/American-made/owned ones, journey depending
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mtempsch
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 3:18 am Up
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Sim wrote:
If bolts were terminals, you wouldn't want to honk whilst driving throug flood, in order not to electrocute anyone Smile


You'd need a wee bit higher voltage than 12V to kill bystanders...

Not that 12V can't kill you, but it pretty much requires open wet wounds closer in to heart than the end of extremities, and really solid contact with the terminals.

Those bolts aren't very much more exposed than say the tail of the crimp connectors in the H4 connector, a loose wire flailing about could poke in at either, though more exposed to water due to the stock mounting point of the horn[s] vs the back of the lights.

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macca1411
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 4:25 am Up
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Quote::
If bolts were terminals, you wouldn't want to honk whilst driving throug flood, in order not to electrocute anyone Smile

I don't know if this is a serious or not.

A spark plug receives about 30,000 volts. If you can find an older type engine with HT leads, just put your finger on one of the leads while the engine is running (unless you have a dodgy heart that is)

It's not the voltage that kills you, it's the current. 0.1 - 0.2 amps would more than likely prove fatal. Shock from currents above 0.2 amp could cause severe burns and cause you to stop breathing, but is survivable if given immediate medical treatment. It's a very fine line between life and death. This is made even more complicated by adding resistance into the equation, eg dry or wet skin (touch a 9v battery with your finger and then your tongue)

Now I can hear you say "But the horn is protected by a 15 amp fuse" There is not enough power in a 12v circuit to push the current through your body, so is therefor safe. That is why most construction power tools are now rated at 110 volts, as this is considered safer in most circumstances and in reality due to the transformer windings is only 55 volts if it was to get wet and short out to a person.


Last edited by macca1411 on Sat May 16, 2015 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Spotfist
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:57 am Up
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Cheers chaps, so these bolts could not be used to test the horn then? i just wondered if i could test the horn that way to make sure that the contacts aren't duff as it's hard to believe i have a second horn that doesn't work.
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mtempsch
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:27 am Up
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macca1411 wrote:

Now I can hear you say "But the horn is protected by a 15 amp fuse" There is not enough power in a 12v circuit to push the current through your body, so is therefor safe.

To be nit picking; actually there's a lot of power (voltage x current) available from a car battery. There's a lot of current capacity (ability to deliver big current while maintaining the voltage) in a car battery - compare to a stack of itty-bitty button cells, like you'll find in a 12V battery often used in car alarm/central locking remotes. Same voltage as the starter battery, but if you try to start the car off it, the internal resistance in the battery will cause to voltage to collapse.

As to it being the current that kills you, that is correct.
But it's the voltage that drives the current through the resistance and 12V is not high enough, no matter the current capacity of the source, to drive a noticeable current through the skin.

Static electricity will have very high voltages, but there's essentially no charge available to provide any meaningful current, so also not dangerous.

T

Silvermetallic 2004 206 RC
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