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 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:50 pm |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
Posts: 327
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Essex
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Ok,so i was having some major understeer issues after new lower arms were fitted to my little pride and pain,had the wheel alignment done and it now grips like a stinker again in the corners HOWEVER when under decelleration (engine breaking alone) the wheel is straight and the car tracks straight (breaking makes no difference) but under acceleration the car yanks left enough to easilly notice and veer the car off course, so much so that i wont drive above 40mph. The guy at the garage said it will pull a bit until the shocks,tires etc adjust so to go back for a second adjustment after a 100miles or so but this seems a bit extreme to me.
** have now taken it back,seems a lot better,does jerk a bit under hard acceleration but im more inclined to believe this is due to settleing and uneven wear on the tires etc. input guys?
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| Joined the GTi massive 10/1/13
Goodbye lairy Pugani (quicksilver 1.4)  | |
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:02 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Shocks and tyres need to adjust and wait 100 miles is bull. Shocks = drive around the block.
If tyres are knackered and unevenly worn maybe he has a point but from what you describe you have a problem worse than that. However, swap front to rear and rear to front and see how that affects handling.
Was it a full 4 wheel alignment machine? If not get it set on one of these machines but only ask for tracking. The machine does a full check but you only pay for the tracking adjustment.That will highlight if there are problems elsewhere.
You will also get a print out that you can post on the forum and knowledgeable people can comment on the print.
Have you checked that both of the two bolts are refitted and tight that go through the subframe and hold the lower arms in place?
Have you looked at the lower arms and are they new?
NOTE: having had a problem you may now be overly sensitive. The drive shafts are unequal length and most roads have a camber. Both of these will cause a slight torque steer reaction when the throttle is stamped in lower gears.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:38 pm |
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Joined: Jun 04, 2010
Posts: 1691
Trade Rating: +3
Location: northallerton
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when i changed my arms and shock i had no problems drove fine after and has done since, i have a gti and dont have torque steer so as said check things look tight and how they should be change the wheels front to back etc and see how it goes also check tyre pressure, also on a 206 you can only change the toe in out
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:14 pm |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
Posts: 327
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Essex
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it was only the toe that was adjusted,was out quite a lot. the tires have done maybe 800miles like that so yeah might have worn badly,though i cant switch them out for the rears as the rears are already the old fronts which are scraping legal until get 4 new shoes lol :os
definately not being oversensitive to it,its quite obvious to tell its happening, now since the second adjustment its only doing it if ya drive slightly heavier than normal leisurely pace. I've attached the before and after from the first alignment but didnt get a print from second one today,and yes it was a 4-wheel alignment machine,will check bolts etc when got some light tomorrow
before:
after first adjustment:
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| Joined the GTi massive 10/1/13
Goodbye lairy Pugani (quicksilver 1.4) | |
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:55 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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holy cow.
1st thing is that on a OEM 206, nothing can be adjusted apart from front toe.
2nd thing is the standard front toe is -0.7 degree +/- 0.5'; not 0 degree. slightly negative toe level out the wheel at speed (reduce tyre wear) and help the car to turn into the corner
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:06 am |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
Posts: 327
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Essex
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So what your saying is the toe BEFORE the adjustement was actually correct?? Forgive me,but that doesn't seem right,especially if u drove the car,it understeered then oversteered like a pig. The system they used took make,model,year and engine size and retrieved the info :os
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| Joined the GTi massive 10/1/13
Goodbye lairy Pugani (quicksilver 1.4) | |
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:37 am |
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Joined: Sep 21, 2011
Posts: 317
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Location: UK
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Who fitted the new lower arms?
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:15 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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| Mr-Tigger wrote: |
| So what your saying is the toe BEFORE the adjustement was actually correct?? Forgive me,but that doesn't seem right,especially if u drove the car,it understeered then oversteered like a pig. The system they used took make,model,year and engine size and retrieved the info :os |
just because the alignment data is right=/= the tracking will be right.
the difference between stationary and moving are huge; if you got any worn suspension parts then no matter what you did the tracking will always out on the road but correct at the garage.
i got the data from pug dealer so i am pretty sure they are correct.
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:10 am |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
Posts: 327
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Essex
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lower arms where done by a mate who's been a mechanic for 8 years. and yes,true,i know weight bearing and travelling affect the geometry. just tyring to find out if anything else you guys can think it may be as tweaking the alignment has made a big diff but still pulling a tad but sittin the other way now. shocks are being replaced all-round with coilovers/new rear shocks shortly,so it probably gna need doing again anyway lol
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| Joined the GTi massive 10/1/13
Goodbye lairy Pugani (quicksilver 1.4) | |
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:49 pm |
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Joined: Sep 21, 2011
Posts: 317
Trade Rating: 0
Location: UK
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Well it sure sounds like the lower arms haven't been fitted right, and/or something critical hasn't been tightened up. We need to ask ourselves why you've chosen to ask about it on a forum when you have a mate who's been a mechanic for 8 years, and knows the car. Have you asked him what the problem is with the car, or what it might be, or to have another look at it?
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:00 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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No: the after toe is nearly correct. The setting should be -7 minutes. 1 minute is 1/60 of a degree not 0.7 degrees. That is expressed on the diagram above as -0°07'.
The before setting is truly shocking and I am surprised the inside edge of your tyres isn't down to the steel belt.
A negative setting means the wheels are pointing out and has the tendency to wear the inner edges. A positive setting means the wheels are pointing in and has a tendency to wear the outside edges. There is a tolerance band a few minutes either side of 0 (straight ahead) where the edge wear is minimal or zero but there are many other settings that affect this wear and how the car reacts to movement of the steering wheel and over bumps. On a car like the 206 (none sporty) the target will be comfort, safety and tyre life.
For those suffering inside edge wear you may want to think about telling the person making the adjustment to have it set straight ahead' which is the same the same as set to 0. They won't like doing something different to what the manufacturer recommends but if you are polite but firm they will do as they are told. However worn suspension components will also cause tyre edge wear so make sure everything is good first. If you have edge wear that isn't excessive then try something like -0°03'
or -0°04'. A very sensitive sporty driver may notice that the car doesn't turn it quite so instantly but if you do notice the difference you are probably driving faster than you should on a public road.
Now back to your print. The operator was lazy and did not get the RH wheel spot on. Most don't unless you stroke their ego and tell them you want to see how good they are and if they get exact settings you will recommend them. However, there is nothing in the settings that should give the effect you are getting. I have seen quite a few cars with worse settings than yours (front and rear) and they all drive straight and true.
Maybe, just maybe, there is something odd about the right front wishbone as the camber on that side is a bit out.
The rear is out but I have seen hundreds of cars like this and they drive straight. As it isn't adjustable it is a case of live with that and it may have even come out of the factory with that setting and not even a new axle is guaranteed to correct it.
Not very helpful - sorry.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:10 am |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
Posts: 327
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Essex
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i've posted it on here as because the alignment was done by a different garage obviously i was taking it back there for them to correct any potential blunder,and the second adjustment has made SOME progress but its still a bit out. And getting hold of my mate when hes free is a pain lol,he does a lot of work outside of work so hes not often free. the whole suspension system,shock springs top mounts and drop-links are being replaced shortly (hopefully) with coilys so with any luck if it is the arm or a nut somewhere it'll be put right when that works done.
cars due a wash now so might go have a look-see at the balls joint and link on drivers side,see if i can see anything obvious but im no wonder mechanic
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| Joined the GTi massive 10/1/13
Goodbye lairy Pugani (quicksilver 1.4) | |
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:08 am |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
Posts: 327
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Essex
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as a sidenote to kandlbarret........
yeah funny thing is before it was done,you could find a straight road and take a nap,but come a righthand corner you had to pre-empt it as it turned loosely for few seconds then dug in :os
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| Joined the GTi massive 10/1/13
Goodbye lairy Pugani (quicksilver 1.4) | |
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:49 am |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Another thought is that you could have a defective new component!
After that it is back to something not properly tightened.
I would also go back to the alignment centre and tell them that the car is still pulling slightly and that you want the alignment put spot on. You have the evidence in the print that that RH side is not correct.
However, they probably won't do it free twice so you need to decide if you are going to get them to do that now or wait until your mate haschecked everything first. if he finds something not right and corrcets it you will need it aligned yet again!
New bottom wishbones can easily alter the tracking by 1° and while that may seem a small amount that is huge in terms of suspension alignment.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:38 am |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
Posts: 327
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Essex
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yeah have spoken to mate and he reckons quite possible because used non-OEM lower arms,so looks like they likely be the culprit. so another thing added to the list when the shocks are done
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| Joined the GTi massive 10/1/13
Goodbye lairy Pugani (quicksilver 1.4) | |
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