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 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:47 am |
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Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 27
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Worcestershire
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Hi folks,
I've had a search on the forum, but can't find any advice on this.
The cars a 2003 206 1.4 HDI.
I've just overhauled the rear drum brakes. This included, new shoes, fitting kit, and a new cylinder on the offside. All 4 brakes have been bled to get new fluid in the system.
Despite this, the handbrake is not gripping on the nearside drum. I cycled the handbrake at least 20 times but it's not made a lot of difference.
There was a fair bit of slack in the cable, so I removed the plastic cover over the hand brake lever and wound the adjustment nut in on the threaded rod.
The offside now works amazingly well, but not the nearside. The nearside works, but nowhere near as well. However it's hard to gauge how well.
Also, I couldn't get the handbrake cables to tighten up evenly. The small plate behind the handbrake adjustment nut, that holds the ends of the cables is at a diagonal angle. If I tighten the handbrake adjusting nut any tighter, the offside brake will start binding.
I'm thinking either a stretched cable, or a worn self adjuster in the drum? I'll be going out shortly, to see if there is a removable bung on the rear of the brake "Plate"? so I can get a screw driver in there and maybe tighten up the self adjuster.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks folks.
Jamie
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:45 am |
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Joined: Apr 01, 2014
Posts: 668
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Cornwall
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change it to hydraulic or adapt the handbrake cable holder to work . It pulls off centre and pulls one side more than the other.
Is weak bad design .
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| If it aint broke dont fix it ! | |
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:43 am |
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Joined: Jun 19, 2010
Posts: 1600
Trade Rating: +4
Location: South Bucks
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Don't remember there being a "bung" in the backplate so that's not an option. Is the n/s cable seized or jamming in the outer cable?
Has to pull square on both or you get the symptoms you are seeing. Needs freeing off.
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| Down to just the 1.4 HDi. Cayman Green 2.0i CC sold. | |
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:45 am |
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Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 27
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Worcestershire
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| gazza82 wrote: |
Don't remember there being a "bung" in the backplate so that's not an option. Is the n/s cable seized or jamming in the outer cable?
Has to pull square on both or you get the symptoms you are seeing. Needs freeing off. |
Thanks for the reply Gaz.
I take it the only way of doing this is to remove the rear drum and brake shoe assembly again. Then get a friend to work the handbrake to see if the cables retracting at the drum end?
Cheers
Jamie
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:33 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2719
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK
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Best method is to slacken handbrake cable off, press brake pedal 10 times to me sure there adjusted fully and then retighten hand brake until you only have to pull a few clicks. Shouldn't take more than 10 mins and can is all done from inside car.
Do you know have to slacken the cable off from inside.
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:25 pm |
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Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 27
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Worcestershire
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| Steve206 wrote: |
Best method is to slacken handbrake cable off, press brake pedal 10 times to me sure there adjusted fully and then retighten hand brake until you only have to pull a few clicks. Shouldn't take more than 10 mins and can is all done from inside car.
Do you know have to slacken the cable off from inside. |
Thanks Steve, I'll give that a try. Yes, have tightened the handbrake inside the car. When having the brake on at 4 notches, the nearside cable gets tight, and has some affect on braking, but it doesn't get as tight as the offside, which will lock the wheel up on 4-5 clicks. There seems to be around an inch of extra cable on the nearside from the view inside the car. Is it possible the cable has stretched on the one side?
Cheers.
Jamie
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:46 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2719
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK
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I would try what I have said first to make sure everything is free and moving and equally balanced. Don't think a cable would stretch that much.
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:31 am |
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Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 27
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Worcestershire
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| Steve206 wrote: |
| I would try what I have said first to make sure everything is free and moving and equally balanced. Don't think a cable would stretch that much. |
I did what you advised Steve, but it made no difference. Where you adjust the handbrake inside the car, the "plate" is still diagonal, and 3 clicks of the handbrake at around 10 mph will lock the offside wheel up. So with that in mind and the fact that the nearside cable has lots of slack and little braking force, which one is likely to be seized? Apologies, I know it's probably a dumb question...
Secondly, if I slam the brakes on, (No ABS) at 20 mph, on a flat part of road, the front of the car swerves/skids off to the right a few feet. Could the 2 issues be linked? I'm presuming not, but I've just changed the front pads and discs. And bled some new fluid through them. And both brake pistons moved freely in and out of the cylinder??
Thanks for the help so far folks.
Jamie
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:23 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2719
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK
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Looks like you might need to change the cables. The braking sounds normal. Check your load spring on rear axle to check its not seized.
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:00 pm |
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Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 27
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Worcestershire
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| Steve206 wrote: |
| Looks like you might need to change the cables. The braking sounds normal. Check your load spring on rear axle to check its not seized. |
Cheers Steve.
I did think that may be the next course of action.
I forgot to add that the load spring was freed up and cleaned as part of the brake service.
Cheers
Jamie
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:18 pm |
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Joined: Aug 02, 2013
Posts: 98
Trade Rating: 0
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| jam1e wrote: |
.....I couldn't get the handbrake cables to tighten up evenly. The small plate behind the handbrake adjustment nut, that holds the ends of the cables is at a diagonal angle. If I tighten the handbrake adjusting nut any tighter, the offside brake will start binding.
I'm thinking either a stretched cable, or a worn self adjuster in the drum? I'll be going out shortly, to see if there is a removable bung on the rear of the brake "Plate"? so I can get a screw driver in there and maybe tighten up the self adjuster. |
The PROBLEM is that angled plate against the 2 nuts.....why?
When it works perfectly, that plate should be even and not angled.
The reason is RESISTANCE!.....where?
When you pull the handbrake up, it pulls the 2 wires evenly but this cannot happen because there is resistance on one side of the rear brakes due to shoes against the back plate itself. This is usually a rusted back plate or the shoes are very tight against the back plate.
If it is rusted/not smooth, then the shoes cannot move smoothly so you need to repair the back plate to make it a smooth surface by sanding it down and spray paint it over.
You can also apply grease where the shoes touches against the back plate so to allow smooth operation....note no grease on the surface of the shoes!!
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:48 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2719
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK
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Ignore all that. Don't put grease inside the drums. As Long as the brake piston inside the drum is free and working then it won't seize anywhere.
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:26 am |
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Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 390
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Bath UK
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Just confirming that the answer is in those cables to save you a lot of head scratching. The equaliser plate is only meant to deal with small differences in cable length so if it's at a noticeable large angle and not at right angles to the cables then you'll have very uneven braking forces. You were there in your thinking with your original post,
The small plate behind the handbrake adjustment nut, that holds the ends of the cables is at a diagonal angle. If I tighten the handbrake adjusting nut any tighter, the offside brake will start binding.
I'm thinking either a stretched cable
the surprise perhaps is just how much the cables stretch over time and they do, that's why they'll almost always need to be replaced in pairs
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:42 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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| Steve206 wrote: |
| Ignore all that. Don't put grease inside the drums. As Long as the brake piston inside the drum is free and working then it won't seize anywhere. |
Copper grease is fine for inside the drums where the shoes touch the backplate.
OP, try turning the auto adjuster screw with a tiny screwdriver, put drum back on to see if it just binds slightly. If it doesn't, adjust a little more and keep on repeating until it's set right.
If the drum has a lip on the inside, just grind it off slightly with a Dremmel. Makes life easier for getting the drum past the shoes.
If the shoes are having to move different distances, then that can send the bracket on the handbrake of at an angle and also cause the symptoms of the car pulling under braking as one side is grabbing before other.
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:26 pm |
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Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 27
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Worcestershire
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Thanks for the replies folks, much appreciated.
To answer a few queries, the back-plates are ok. A little deteriorated but not enough to cause problems with movement of the shoes.
What I did discover, was the self-adjuster on the nearside brake isn't working. I've no idea why?? Everything is in good order, and the teeth are fine on the adjuster nut..... In the end, I manually adjusted that side by using a small screw driver to wind out the shoes. Thankfully, I achieved 90% (ish) equal handbrake movement on my second attempt. And full handbrake movement is 3 to 4 clicks. For now I've had enough, and will treat as a manually adjusted handbrake, but it does p**s me off that the self adjuster will not work. I just can't see why it won't work!?? Anyone any ideas??
After working on the handbrake, I took it for a test drive to see if the front of the car still veered to the right when I locked the brakes up at 20-25 mph (No ABS). And YES, the f****** thing did!! Surely that's not normal even for a non abs car!??
Very frustrating....
Really appreciate all the help folks.
Jamie
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