#1: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: SurfRat, Location: ZAPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:38 am ---- Hi all,
I am a wannabe rally driver and dream of having the car control that the top rally drivers have. When I got my 180 I taught myself the techniques of Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking. I found that it took me about 2 months to get the heel and toe technique sorted and a month for left foot braking. I have heard people complain about the 206's pedal's being too close together but with my small feet (size 6) I find them perfectly placed.
Do any of you use these driving techniques?
SurfRat.
#2: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: CD-B3, Location: Salisbury / New ForestPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:40 am ---- I will be learning how to do it properly at some point when the 205 is up and running.
Am able to left foot brake but don't most of the time.
#3: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: D4NTP, Location: Not Leeds or its surrounding areas!Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:42 am ---- Yeh use both, it's a nightmare at first though isn't it! does speed up progress no end though through the twisties. I find the 206 just about right and i'm a size 12, the 106/saxo on the other hand is impossible to drive comfortably.
#4: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Brian, Location: VVT Land, FifePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:42 am ---- Don't do it on public roads, it can be very dangerous. It's a track technique just as a word of warning to other users...
#5: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Danw_VVT, Location: Herts/LondonPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:44 am ---- always wanted to try these but never really got the hang, any tips?
#6: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: SurfRat, Location: ZAPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 am ---- I found it perfectly safe while I was learning. Just make sure you don't practice on a busy road.
#7: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: CD-B3, Location: Salisbury / New ForestPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:48 am ---- Youtube
#8: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: juanfernandes, Location: LondonPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:49 am ---- Never heard of the Heal and Toe technique, but have played about with left foot braking.
Left foot braking is a nightmare when you first start - it feels like your foot doesn't have a clue what to do and the it takes a while to get the right pressure.
That's why you not supposed to practice on public roads, because when you try and brake with your left foot, it will go from nothing to slamming!
#9: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: SurfRat, Location: ZAPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:50 am ---- Tip's... check out the video's on YouTube. Left foot braking is the easier of the two. Just teach your left foot to gently press on the brake pedal. The first few times you will bump your head on the steering wheel
H&T takes a lot of practice but start by just doing a rev match down shift with no braking.
There is nothing sweeter than a series of down shifts using the H&T technique....
#10: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: DJ-, Location: UKPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:53 am ---- my first left foot braking was a funny experience in the 206. i do karting regulary so i was used to smashing the brake pedal with my left foot
#11: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: juanfernandes, Location: LondonPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:54 am ----
That's cool - at one point it looks like his doing a little dance.
#12: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: D4NTP, Location: Not Leeds or its surrounding areas!Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:56 am ---- It's riverdance but sat down.....
#13: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Danw_VVT, Location: Herts/LondonPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:03 am ---- f*** that looks hard!
#14: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:09 am ---- I dont heel and toe, i just clutch down blip the throttle and dont really bother to brake
But m going to try and learn that tonight
Btw, is the point in left foot braking, to keep the throttle down to hold the revs up but slow down at the same time?
#15: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Danw_VVT, Location: Herts/LondonPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:13 am ---- im gonna head to the air strip tonight me thinks
#16: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: LilLew, Location: PlymouthPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:22 am ---- i am currently practicing the left foot braking and hoe & toe i have almost got the hang of it i am all good with double clutching gear change
#17: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:03 am ---- Everybody should do heel and toeing. Dropping down gears without doing it is so unpolished.
#18: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: EdCherry, Location: WiltshirePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:27 am ---- Lets bring trail braking into the equation.
#19: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Danw_VVT, Location: Herts/LondonPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:33 am ---- ok go for it...
#20: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Antix, Location: WorcesterPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:34 am ----
Edward wrote:
Everybody should do heel and toeing.
For some reason I suddenly thought of Steps. 5-6-7-8.
Never mind.
#21: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Lowercase, Location: East SussexPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:37 am ---- i use left foot breaking but, im left footed so find it easy
#22: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: CD-B3, Location: Salisbury / New ForestPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:37 am ----
EdCherry wrote:
Lets bring trail braking into the equation.
That the thing you were explaining to me last night?
#23: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Danw_VVT, Location: Herts/LondonPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:40 am ---- trail braking
#24: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Seabook, Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:54 am ---- trail braking don't require left foot braking
#25: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Ruffy_206, Location: BristolPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:55 am ---- i can do it but the 206 isnt the easyst car to do it in.
also left foot braking is fine but get on the throttle early and the car beeps at you.
#26: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: DeadEyePaul, Location: Rugby,WarwickshirePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:59 am ----
so from this video, is the brake pedal on the left? and not in the middle?
i dont see his left foot touch the middle at all this is why i'm querying why its called left foot breaking
because the way hes moving his feet is the way i drive
#27: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: CD-B3, Location: Salisbury / New ForestPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:02 am ----
so from this video, is the brake pedal on the left? and not in the middle?
i dont see his left foot touch the middle at all this is why i'm querying why its called left foot breaking
because the way hes moving his feet is the way i drive
Thats not left foot braking, thats Heel & Toe.
#28: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: DeadEyePaul, Location: Rugby,WarwickshirePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:08 am ----
so from this video, is the brake pedal on the left? and not in the middle?
i dont see his left foot touch the middle at all this is why i'm querying why its called left foot breaking
because the way hes moving his feet is the way i drive
Thats not left foot braking, thats Heel & Toe.
ahh then i do heel to toe then been taught to drive this way and i feel its the most easiest
#29: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: twed207, Location: borders, near carlisle.Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:18 am ---- it's much easier to do in cars with more responsive throttles. my 206 and 207's thropple just seems very slow to respond. you have to propper kick it to get it to rev and on our VW's and sprinter, so much as tickle the throttle and it responds straight away.
rev matching is quite easy when not braking or once you've braked but it's a wee bit harder on a bike. brake and throttle in one hand is abit tedious so a slipper clutch is used, get the back end sliding out too.
#30: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: DeadEyePaul, Location: Rugby,WarwickshirePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:26 am ---- does anyone do this?
i do this as well as heel to toe, i feel gear changes are smoother and i get no learching forwards when the engine changes gear
#31: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: twed207, Location: borders, near carlisle.Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:43 am ---- watch this one with evo's and gaypreza's in it from about 2:00 on... lots of left foot braking and heel toe-ing.
#32: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Rob2859, Location: HalifaxPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:42 pm ---- i find heel and toe easy to pick up. I do it for hill starts. I also find if its not a majorly steep hill i can just lift the clutch a bit before taking my foot of the brake and hold it until i get my foot onto the other pedal.
#33: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: hamspeed, Location: CambridgePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:08 pm ----
Rob2859 wrote:
i find heel and toe easy to pick up. I do it for hill starts. I also find if its not a majorly steep hill i can just lift the clutch a bit before taking my foot of the brake and hold it until i get my foot onto the other pedal.
This isn't heel and toe.
#34: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Iain, Location: Aberdeen, ScotlandPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:20 pm ----
hamspeed wrote:
Rob2859 wrote:
i find heel and toe easy to pick up. I do it for hill starts. I also find if its not a majorly steep hill i can just lift the clutch a bit before taking my foot of the brake and hold it until i get my foot onto the other pedal.
This isn't heel and toe.
Heel toeing is slightly more difficult than that, but very rewarding if done right. Used for down shifts at speed.
#35: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: twed207, Location: borders, near carlisle.Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:29 pm ---- very good on the track...
#36: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:47 pm ---- When I tried left-foot braking I ended up slamming my head
against the windscreen, never done it since.
#37: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Rob2859, Location: HalifaxPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:58 pm ----
Iain wrote:
hamspeed wrote:
Rob2859 wrote:
i find heel and toe easy to pick up. I do it for hill starts. I also find if its not a majorly steep hill i can just lift the clutch a bit before taking my foot of the brake and hold it until i get my foot onto the other pedal.
This isn't heel and toe.
Heel toeing is slightly more difficult than that, but very rewarding if done right. Used for down shifts at speed.
yeh i know its not quite the same thing but its still using all three pedals at once
#38: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Iain, Location: Aberdeen, ScotlandPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:30 pm ----
Rob2859 wrote:
Iain wrote:
hamspeed wrote:
Rob2859 wrote:
i find heel and toe easy to pick up. I do it for hill starts. I also find if its not a majorly steep hill i can just lift the clutch a bit before taking my foot of the brake and hold it until i get my foot onto the other pedal.
This isn't heel and toe.
Heel toeing is slightly more difficult than that, but very rewarding if done right. Used for down shifts at speed.
yeh i know its not quite the same thing but its still using all three pedals at once
All you were doing is holding the car with the clutch at the biting point, as far as I can tell anyway.
#39: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Quarmbo, Location: Bristol & LeicesterPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:47 pm ---- Ayrton Senna - a true legend! Think he helped design this car didn't he...?
#40: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Rob2859, Location: HalifaxPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:28 pm ----
Iain wrote:
Rob2859 wrote:
Iain wrote:
hamspeed wrote:
Rob2859 wrote:
i find heel and toe easy to pick up. I do it for hill starts. I also find if its not a majorly steep hill i can just lift the clutch a bit before taking my foot of the brake and hold it until i get my foot onto the other pedal.
This isn't heel and toe.
Heel toeing is slightly more difficult than that, but very rewarding if done right. Used for down shifts at speed.
yeh i know its not quite the same thing but its still using all three pedals at once
All you were doing is holding the car with the clutch at the biting point, as far as I can tell anyway.
no because you need to still have your foot on the brake while holding the revs and getting the biting point. so all 3 pedals.
#41: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Chi, Location: North LondonPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:22 am ----
Quarmbo wrote:
Ayrton Senna - a true legend! Think he helped design this car didn't he...?
Awesome video! One that I can't happily watch again and again!
Senna helped in developing the chassis for the NSX.
Heel and toe is a must and the sound of each downshift as the revs builds up is beautiful!
#42: Re: Heel and Toe and Left Foot Braking Author: Danw_VVT, Location: Herts/LondonPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:29 am ---- i was doing heel and toe this weekend on the air strip it makes life so easy and quick love it!
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It's a track technique just as a word of warning to other users...
been taught to drive this way and i feel its the most easiest
