#1: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Gems, Location: OxfordPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:38 am ---- Hi guys, had my car Dyno'd today @ Talk of The Devil in Uxbridge.
BHP came out at 163 and Torque came out at 140lbs/ft
Was wondering if this normal for a 180?
I've got a Pipercross Viper Induction and Scorpion Exhaust. All the fuel ratio reading are fine and the car is running fine.
Gotta admit was gutted as was expecting alot better from it. Dyno was reading correctly. Last edited by Gems on Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
#2: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Mattie-RS, Location: A Track near you ;)Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:43 am ---- Aye, all 180's get around the 160-170 BHP mark im afraid
#3: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Mikey2uk, Location: StevenagePosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:49 am ----
Mattie® wrote:
Aye, all 180's get around the 160-170 BHP mark im afraid
True what Mattie said. Wouldnt be to hard to get a bit more power out of it tho just depends on how much you want to spend
#4: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: no_offences, Location: LeedsPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:05 am ---- yerah its normal, tarmac terriorist on here has one with 180 but thats with hours remapping it at rs tuning lol most pull that figure, most are towards the high end of 160
#5: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: E5GDM, Location: EssexPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:28 am ---- If that's 163bhp at the wheels, that's pretty good. That would be near enough 180 @ the flywheel, the figure pug quoted & named the car after. Last edited by E5GDM on Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
#6: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Gems, Location: OxfordPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:30 am ---- Its 163bhp at the flywheel. Thanks for the replies feel better now lol
#7: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Antix, Location: WorcesterPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:38 am ---- If it was 140nm torque it is 103.26lb.ft - that's one very sick puppy
If it was 140lb.ft, it is pretty low for a 180
EDIT: my figures (12/9/09) are 167.4bhp/153lb.ft (Viper & Janspeed)
#8: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:19 pm ---- Check you VVT selenoid. If it fail you can never seen any CEL or diagnostic information.
#9: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Ali_H, Location: Chichester, SussexPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:26 pm ---- Mine put out 169.9 with a Pipercross induction kit on it. I've not had it done with the Janspeed on it though.
#10: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Big_Rich180, Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:15 pm ---- If it helps the clio's are the same, i think a few VW's are the same aswel. For some reason they just dont make the power and pug took it upon them selfs to lie about the output.
#11: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Antix, Location: WorcesterPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:25 pm ----
Big_Rich180 wrote:
If it helps the clio's are the same, i think a few VW's are the same aswel. For some reason they just dont make the power and pug took it upon them selfs to lie about the output.
VW 'usually' underquote their figures.
This year's RSTuning saw my Golf TSI at 160.4bhp/180lb.ft at 1000 miles (VW figures 160bhp/177lb.ft). Most of the other cars were under-performing due to the hot weather
#12: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: no_offences, Location: LeedsPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:20 pm ---- why do they need to lie, they did'not with the original gti
#13: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Iain, Location: Aberdeen, ScotlandPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:23 pm ----
no_offences wrote:
why do they need to lie, they did'not with the original gti
Think it was to compete with the Clio 172/182 that it was targeting.
#14: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: SAB206, Location: North WestPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:24 pm ---- 180's come out the factory with 177ps, which is 173bhp standard?! roughly? so not far off..
Your torque seems a bit low..
mine standard was 161.6 bhp and 147 torque, then with new filter and exhaust was 169,2bhp and 154 torques.
#15: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: ben_w_gti, Location: leedsPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:25 pm ---- chances are that your car will be less power than standard if it has the pipercross and the scorpion exhaust. everybody puts them on as they think it gains you power when nine times out of ten you actally lose power. the extra noise makes you think its quicker lol. most induction kits are fitted incorrectly causing warm air to be sucked into the engine therfore resulting in loss of power, ( if they were that good wouldnt all car manufacturers fit them to hot hatches as standard if its such a cheap easy way to gain bhp) and the exhausts normally cause you to loose back pressure again resulting in power loss. my friend has a megane f1 230, had it on the rolling road, then fitted a K & N induction kit and rolling roaded it again the same day and the loss was incredible, 13bhp iirc. you notice more difference by running your car on higher octane fuel and keeping your tyre pressures correct than changing an air filter or exhaust.
#16: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Big_Rich180, Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:42 pm ----
ben_w_gti wrote:
chances are that your car will be less power than standard if it has the pipercross and the scorpion exhaust. everybody puts them on as they think it gains you power when nine times out of ten you actally lose power. the extra noise makes you think its quicker lol. most induction kits are fitted incorrectly causing warm air to be sucked into the engine therfore resulting in loss of power, ( if they were that good wouldnt all car manufacturers fit them to hot hatches as standard if its such a cheap easy way to gain bhp) and the exhausts normally cause you to loose back pressure again resulting in power loss. my friend has a megane f1 230, had it on the rolling road, then fitted a K & N induction kit and rolling roaded it again the same day and the loss was incredible, 13bhp iirc. you notice more difference by running your car on higher octane fuel and keeping your tyre pressures correct than changing an air filter or exhaust.
I think sab's point screws your exhaust theory for the 206 up there though, mine ran a tad more with the decat on the same RR day that sab's was done but he had more torque. Although i do agree with you on the induction part.
#17: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Quarmbo, Location: Bristol & LeicesterPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:43 pm ---- Not strictly true Ben. On the 180's, the scorpion/Janspeed systems add more power and are less restrictive (basing my opinion on others who have had it fitted). Its the 4" dustbin lid systems that lose cars power.
#18: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Mattie-RS, Location: A Track near you ;)Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:47 pm ---- I also had proven gains with an induction kit (set up correctly) and good exhaust system
I had it RR'ed standard then RR'ed with the mods done and had a 10bhp raise.
#19: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: ben_w_gti, Location: leedsPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:10 pm ---- Yeh the correct parts will gain you power and custom made exhausts will. But s***ty back boxes from eBay or halfrauds regardless of the make will very rarely gain power and yes quarmbo the 180 jan speed gains power but that's because it was designed for the car and not by some pikey in his shed. Decat is a whole different thing. Not good for non turbos but good for turbos. Sports cats are best for n/a engined cars
#20: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Iain, Location: Aberdeen, ScotlandPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:39 pm ----
ben_w_gti wrote:
Yeh the correct parts will gain you power and custom made exhausts will. But s***ty back boxes from eBay or halfrauds regardless of the make will very rarely gain power and yes quarmbo the 180 jan speed gains power but that's because it was designed for the car and not by some pikey in his shed. Decat is a whole different thing. Not good for non turbos but good for turbos. Sports cats are best for n/a engined cars
Well the Scorpion was designed purely for the 180 as well, why should it make your car lose power (as you said before)? Most people in the know even prefer the Scorpion for performance gains.
#21: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Ali_H, Location: Chichester, SussexPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:03 pm ---- I don't know anyone who's put a universal backbox on a 180, would anyone be that stupid?
#22: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Brian, Location: VVT Land, FifePosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:01 pm ---- your torque seems very low, i would take a look at the air intake as well as your weird and wonderful back box.
#23: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Gems, Location: OxfordPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:48 am ---- Hmm few mixed messages there then lol, thanks for your help guys. Most of the work on her was done by pug1off so i'm gunna get her booked in there and see what they can do for me
#24: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: mattymj, Location: NorfolkPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:39 am ---- Correct spark plug and gap? I went for bosch which were set at 0.9 mm.
Heard the 180 needed 1.1mm gap!!!
#25: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: meady, Location: basingstokePosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:07 am ---- would tht make tht big a difrence ???
#26: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Big_Rich180, Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:12 am ----
mattymj wrote:
Correct spark plug and gap? I went for bosch which were set at 0.9 mm.
Heard the 180 needed 1.1mm gap!!!
It doesnt matter what plugs you have the 180's never make 180bhp as standard.
#27: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Gems, Location: OxfordPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:44 am ----
mattymj wrote:
Correct spark plug and gap? I went for bosch which were set at 0.9 mm.
Heard the 180 needed 1.1mm gap!!!
No the spark plugs aren't an issue tbh. I work in a garage and get it checked out all the time and it's mechanically sound. Just gunna get pug1off to give it a going over and get some ideas of what to do to her
#28: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:13 am ---- Standart 206 RC (GTI180) make 174-177 hp as standart.
#29: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Big_Rich180, Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:16 am ----
Schumi wrote:
Standart 206 RC (GTI180) make 174-177 hp as standart.
Some 180's make 160 odd BHP..
#30: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: mattymj, Location: NorfolkPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:29 am ---- Well keep us updated. Be good to see why the RC's always make better power unless it's all to do with the mapping!
Standart 206 RC (GTI180) make 174-177 hp as standart.
The RC's make 174-177 as standard but for some reason the 180 makes less. Someone told me it was detuned for the UK market, not sure how true that is though.
#32: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:01 am ---- BMW M series is detuned in Turkey market. Reason is bad quailty gas. Some company detune cars for wheather conditions, gas quality, ex. reasons.
#33: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: simpsonrc, Location: coventryPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:25 am ---- my rc made 176 bhp
#34: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: JamieM, Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:51 pm ---- I heard the earlier 180's made near true figres and then were detuned due to clutch issues, pretty sure back in 2007 there was a thread on here on it, god knows where else I would have got it from.
I had a Scorpion catback, angel tuning generic map, Simota CAIS fitted by Angel tuning, my own kit imported at the time (probably can buy them willy nilly now though lol), & some denso irridium plugs from memory, and although I never had it on the RR it definitely felt ALOT more responsive, used to rape Type R's for shits and giggles.
#35: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: gti180boy, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:43 am ----
Schumi wrote:
Standart 206 RC (GTI180) make 174-177 hp as standart.
All 206 rc make more power than the english version ( GTI 180 ) over here.
I belive down to having a different map and that as standed.
And mine made a 195.5 bhp @ fly wheel and 166bhp @ wheel
kyle
#36: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Icetto, Location: Cape TownPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:31 am ---- Damn I think in SA we also got detuned GTi 180. We can only get 95 octane at the pump and our fuel is kak.
I'm making 179bhp and 210Nm on the fly on 95 octane. I got induction kit and de-cat free flow exhaust
#37: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:33 am ---- You don't really know if they are de-tuned or not, until they are all put on the same RR
#38: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: macj, Location: EssexPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:44 am ---- The low torque reading leans me towards the VVT.... woth getting that checked first.... GTi180boy could lend an ear on this matter me thinks
#39: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Icetto, Location: Cape TownPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:54 am ---- True Lee. I picked one dyno and only go to that dyno to measure progress of my car
#40: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: thelegacy, Location: LondonPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:57 pm ---- Just my 2p on this...
Most GTi 180's make around 160-165bhp because the manufacturers make use of homologated engines and the respective allowances that are made through regulations (which I believe to be at 10%). So in reality, a 174bhp rated engine needs to make at least 157bhp at the fly.
Manufacturers are, of course, more than willing to exploit these regulations and the Clio is another prime example of this occurring. While rated at 176bhp, they make around the same bhp on a RR as the 180.
Whereas N/A engines make their power through a build up of rotation (revs), forced induction engines make their power through a high torque band. Consequently, it is much more likely for forced induction cars to, in most cases, exceed their rated power output. This is why most forced induction cars make their rated power or more.
Oh and the 140lb/ft torque is pretty normal on an aftermarket exhaust - you need a remap to exploit the benefits of better breathing for more torque.
Good luck and enjoy your ride!
#41: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:04 pm ----
thelegacy wrote:
Whereas N/A engines make their power through a build up of rotation (revs), forced induction engines make their power through a high torque band.
N/A make power through revs yet F/I engines make power through high torque?
They both make power and torque in the same way, one just has stronger torque in the mid range than the other.
#42: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: thelegacy, Location: LondonPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:07 pm ----
Edward wrote:
thelegacy wrote:
Whereas N/A engines make their power through a build up of rotation (revs), forced induction engines make their power through a high torque band.
N/A make power through revs yet F/I engines make power through high torque?
They both make power and torque in the same way, one just has stronger torque in the mid range than the other.
Isn't it that consistency in torque through forced air that achieves the consistent power output compared to an N/A which relies on normal breathing?
And they don't make power in the same way as the FI doesn't need to spin as fast to achieve the peak power output that is comparable to the N/A (using like for like capacity...)
#43: Re: GTI 180 Dyno Results Question Author: thelegacy, Location: LondonPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:10 pm ----
macj wrote:
The low torque reading leans me towards the VVT.... woth getting that checked first.... GTi180boy could lend an ear on this matter me thinks
I second this motion btw...after my remap and induction, I lost a lot of oil and the VVT solenoid was stuck in the upper position making me lose torque in the lower rev range.
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