My car (more frequently in this cold weather) has a judder problem when started at around 1000rpm. Once it warms up to temp the juddering goes and its normally fine after the revs drop to a normal 800rpm idle. But occasionally (2or3 times a week now) the juddering worsens and the car sounds and feels like its dropping to 3 cylinders. the power loss is monumental, everything goes and it wont overtake a push bike. I pull over and restart a few times, all 4 cylinders kick and all ok apart from the anti pollution and cat fault warnings showing on the dash for rest of the day.
I am assuming that the pollution fault and cat faults are red herrings as they only occur after dropping a cylinder. This is probably a symptom of unburned fuel from the cylinder being pushed through the exhaust system,
I am suspecting a dodgy coil pack, would you peeps agree, the sparks are newish and the problem did happen with the last set.
I am going to order new coil pack and fit another set of spark plugs but should i be looking at anything else? someone on here with a 180 2L has been having faults and was told to unplug clean and plug in the vvt solenoid. Does the 140 2L also have this? worth checking?
Any help would be great.
PS does anyone know the part number or where i can buy a new coil pack and how much they may cost? I believe the coil pack for all 4 spark plugs is one 4 pronged unit? Last edited by Davels on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
#2: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Jamie, Location: Ring y0Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:54 pm ---- Try the coil pack, the EW doesn't suffer from the cut out/lumpy idle like the TU engines, and yours doesn't have VVT so 1 less thing to check and replace! Have you had it on diagnostics? Know anyone in the business that could put it on in their lunch hour?
#3: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Taff!, Location: Havant nr PortsmouthPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:56 pm ---- I've just had similar to this but got away with Just changing the plugs. Exactly the same as you described so I would definitely try other plugs but as said you need to hook it up and get the fault codes. Mine was multiple misfires caused by crap plugs. If the coil pack is getting on a bit then it might be worth checking that and putting in another but without plugging the car in it could be a variety of issues. I know I also have issues with my egr valve which has also kicked up the anti-pollution fault and cat fault but this was dealt with not long after I bought the car. if it is going lumpy though I'm pretty sure that another cause could be a duff lambda sensor forcing an overfuelling. Again no point replacing if you're not certain. A garage should be able to give you the codes for £20-40
#4: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:30 pm ---- ta for the replies. Does anyone know where i'm best to get a new coil pack? Cheapest I've seen is online for £110 and it'll probably take about a month to arrive.
#5: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Navarro206, Location: Southampton, EnglandPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:19 am ---- have you not got a local scrapyard that would "loan" you a coil pack so you can verify that is what the problem is?
#6: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:51 am ---- I'd change the plugs, then the coilpack, then the oil because it could be a sticky hydraulic lifter. Then if it continues I reckon it's the lifters that need changing.
#7: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: macj, Location: EssexPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:52 am ----
Davels wrote:
ta for the replies. Does anyone know where i'm best to get a new coil pack? Cheapest I've seen is online for £110 and it'll probably take about a month to arrive.
I may have a S/H one somewhere.... will have a look if your interested
#8: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:48 am ---- Hi chaps,
Thanks for the offers of help and spares etc. I popped to halfords this morning a got a set of super 4's to replace the sparks. Then went off to Peugeot and picked up a brand new coil pack they luckily had in stock. it was only 110 quid and considering if's for all four pots i didn't think it was too bad.
I'm now about to change the lot at once so i don't foul the new pack with a dodgy plug or foul a plug with the dodgy old pack.
I aslo paid 50quid for them to flash the ecu. I happened to have the k (engine managment) light on with a antipollution fault on the centre console.
Odd thing was they found no faults at all, none logged and none showing even though the light was on.
The couldn't even clear the light as there was no fault to clear etc.
They then told me the ECU is probably on it's way out......great! only 800 odd quid for a replacement.
The fault and light then dissapear when they ran the car out of the workshop
I'm keeping my fingers crossed
#9: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: macj, Location: EssexPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:55 am ----
Davels wrote:
Hi chaps,
Thanks for the offers of help and spares etc. I popped to halfords this morning a got a set of super 4's to replace the sparks. Then went off to Peugeot and picked up a brand new coil pack they luckily had in stock. it was only 110 quid and considering if's for all four pots i didn't think it was too bad.
I'm now about to change the lot at once so i don't foul the new pack with a dodgy plug or foul a plug with the dodgy old pack.
I aslo paid 50quid for them to flash the ecu. I happened to have the k (engine managment) light on with a antipollution fault on the centre console.
Odd thing was they found no faults at all, none logged and none showing even though the light was on.
The couldn't even clear the light as there was no fault to clear etc.
They then told me the ECU is probably on it's way out......great! only 800 odd quid for a replacement. The fault and light then dissapear when they ran the car out of the workshop
I'm keeping my fingers crossed
Probably because you need to travel over 5mph to clear some fault lights like ABS for example...
#10: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:39 am ---- Swapped out the spark plugs and coild pack, which was litterally a 5 minute job thankfully. Car seems to pick up a lot better when warm but cold starts still really judder on 1000rpm. I have no idea what is causing this. Does anyone have any further suggestions?
Also I spaced the new sparks at 1.1mm but yesterday after starting the car and realising i needed the key to unlock the glove box, i restarted and the car took over 5 seconds to turn over. which doesn't seem right. Although it's been alright since.
#11: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:56 am ---- Does sound like the lifter to me. Try cleaning the map sensor too with some brake cleaner as it costs nothing to try.
#12: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:45 am ---- Could you advise, where abouts the MAP sensor is and how to remove please?
Thanks
#13: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: mattievrs, Location: LeicesterPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:47 am ----
Davels wrote:
Could you advise, where abouts the MAP sensor is and how to remove please?
Thanks
front of the inlet on left hand side as you look at it.
#14: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:25 am ---- Ok mate nice one, no idea what the MAP sensor looks like so im' struggling to picture it. But from what you have said it sounds easy to find, lets hope it's easy to get off too.
I've got some cleaner somewhere. Just need to find someone to fast idle for me so i can spray some through the plenum too, the engine doesn't like being starved of air when this stuff goes in.
#15: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:29 am ---- So i get home it's dark and i'm equiped with a torch and some xmas tools. I looked for the MAP sensor on the left to no avail. But after googling them I found something on the TB that looked like it, helo on by a brass bolt. This didn't seem that dirty.
The throttle body is on the front of the engine and this sensor was on the very front of that. I also found the ICV on the right of the TB and cleaned this also. While I was there I cleaned the plenum and removed a large amount of carbon deposit.
The cold start this morning went well with very minimal judder. Does this suggest I cleaned the right part but not enough (i did as much as i could get too) or have I not found the map sensor and this is somthing I should still try?
#16: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:36 pm ---- Map sensor is on the front of the inlet. Sounds like you found it because all the others are hidden under the plastic bit on the TB.
MAP sensor
TB with idle control valve missing.
#17: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:48 am ---- Yeah thas it. I saw a picture online of Pug MAP having a yellow resistor looking thing in the hole, but it was too similar for it not to be right. Idle control valve is a check too. Cleaned the opening as well as the rubber pusher and shaft.
I removed the unit on the right of the TB which is still attached on you second picture but Had no idea what is was so put it back
And after a little bit of time I finally removed the 5mm of carbon deposits on the plenum. I know this won't make a differnace as it doesn't effect the opening. But it made me feel better.
Thanks for the pictures, it's set my mind at rest that i've got the right bits.
#18: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:04 am ---- The block with the wiring to it on the right is the throttle position sensor.
#19: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Username, Location: NewportPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:26 pm ---- I have exactly the same problem on my GTi (W 2000). Cold starting is a right pain now. It Idles at 1000-1100 rpm & she shudders & shakes. After idling for 5 minutes she settles down to 750-800 rpm & is as smooth as silk.
As long as the engine is warm she starts up lovely, but during the last cold snap we just had it was a nightmare in the mornings.
I have now changed the sparks, map & engine temp sensor. Plus lots of sensors have also been cleaned up.
I believe the problem is now definately the lifters, or the oil. Took my car to a local garage back last summer for a service & the problem started roughly the same time. I believe he put the wrong oil in (too thick) so on cold starts its too thick for the lifters to bleed & pump until the oil warms up. Either that or my lifters are on their way out.
I sympathise with you as its doing my head in now as well.
#20: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:31 pm ---- This is the info from Pug about the hydraulic tappet issue for early car's
#21: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Username, Location: NewportPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:37 pm ---- I believe i read somewhere as well that some Pug garages were swapping the oil ducts & lifters over from the 2.2 EW12J4 thus also curing the problem. Does anyone no if this is correct?
#22: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:53 pm ---- Well mine spluttered on startup as soon as I fitted the Longman cylinder head. When the new cams and throttle bodies were fitted some new genuine Peugeot lifters were fitted and it's not spluttered since.
Only downside is the genuine lifters are over £300.
#23: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:08 am ---- So I cleaned the throttle body, Idle control valve and map sensor. Replaced the spark plugs with boshe super fours and fitted a brand new coil pack.
Also the car has have a brand new exhaust including cat.
What else could this be before lifters? I've spent enough on the cars suspension and tyres over the past week or so and 300more without fitting is out of the question.
I already have to find 500quid for cambelt change and major service due in a month or so.
#24: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:05 am ---- Also, auto oil level indicator never seems to be accurate, it varies day to day even when parked in the same spot. Am i using the wrong oil to top it up etc. I've been told to use 10w40 so i've been using castrol magnetec. Bu tas the has only just clocked 50000miles should I be using 5w40? Would this help with the cold start probably?
#25: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:50 am ---- 5W40 is what Peugeot recommend, won't make any difference really. I'd never rely on the dashboard oil guage.
#26: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: macj, Location: EssexPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:05 pm ---- I would give the engine a Forte flush and replace the oil with the recommended 5-40W oil...... this would be your cheapest next step but dont expect to get instant results..... after you have changed the flushed oil you should take it on a long run
#27: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Username, Location: NewportPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:45 pm ---- You could also try changing the Air Temperature Sensor located just above the Map Sensor, they are only about £6-£10.
This sensor could cause cold idling issues if damaged / dirty.
If the intake air temperature sensor is not reading accurately, the PCM may think the air is warmer or colder than it actually is, causing it to miscalculate the air/fuel mixture. The result may be a lean or rich fuel mixture that causes driveability symptoms such as poor idle quality when cold, stumble on cold acceleration, and surging when the engine is warm.
#28: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:14 pm ---- Air temp sensor won't make a massive difference unless it was really giving dodgy outputs.
For every 10 degrees increase in temp you need about 3% less fuel.
#29: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:29 pm ---- In the picture above am i right in thinking that grey plug on the bottom of the TB is the air temp sensor?
I cleaned this area and the problem improved for a few days. for 15quid it's has got to be worth a shot. One is on the way just in case.
#30: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:18 am ---- The grey plug on the front of the TB is the air temp sensor. The grey one on the manifold is the map sensor.
#31: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Twincam007, Location: HounslowPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:30 am ---- Hi seeen this as I was doing some research for my own car. 1999 Gt1 138.
My idle is currently around 600rpm and is really lumpy in the mornings.Its been happening for about a month now. I laso cleaned out the idle control valve, map sensor, throttle position sensor, throttle in general with brake cleaner, and had no change. Bought a new coil pack from Euro (Valeo), and peugeot plugs, and this seemed to have made the idle even more erratic. I may try changing my oil next as well.
Will be trying the Minimum Air Adjustment thingy this weekend.
#32: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:48 am ---- Hmm sounds interesting but also like the most complicated process ever I dont know where hald the stuff mentioned is located for a start
EDIT having looked at it it appears the AIS is the Idle control valve.
#33: Re: 3 cylinder 140 2L :( Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:06 pm ---- New air temp sensor fitted tonight. Engine was warm so can't tell if it has made any difference yet. Car seemed to be idling lower at just under 800rpm rather than just over but that could be weather conditions or my mind playing tricks. Don't really know if it would be effected by a sensor change anyway. I'll be able to tell tomoz morning hopefully from cold
#34: Re: ECU/engine misfire Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:30 am ---- This is really getting to me now, I have changed everything that people have suggested, coil, sparks, map sensor, idle control valve etc, cost a bit of money for stuff that wasn't the cause but a least it ruled those parts out . The car has been fully serviced and valve lifter treatment added to no effect. It's been plugged into a diagnostic machine while running from cold and no faults are being read whatsoever despite misfiring and juddering worse than ever while plugged in.
Which is a problem, as it seems to be getting worse.
It's been given a clean bill of health mechanically and the only thing they mechanics can suggest is a faulty ECU not telling the injectors to pump enough fuel in when cold. To fix that we are talking mega money by the looks of things, just after i've had to fork out for a cam belt change it's just no possible. My yearly bonus can only go so far lol.
It seems to chug a bit at idle now when cold, but not cold enough for the juddering to start if that makes sense
Can anyone suggest something that I may have missed? I'm at my wits end...wherever that may be...
#35: Re: ECU/engine misfire Author: Twincam007, Location: HounslowPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:04 am ---- oxygen/lamda sensor? - apparently they don't always show fault codes but doesnt mean they on their way out. Phew, that would be almost every sensor changed.
#36: Re: ECU/engine misfire Author: Quarmbo, Location: Bristol & LeicesterPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:37 am ---- Injectors?
#37: Re: ECU/engine misfire Author: Davels, Location: NorfolkPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:24 am ---- No, injectors are fine so to was the O2 sensor but that would be harder to 100% test.
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the property of the poster
Interactive software released under GNU GPL,
Code Credits,
Privacy Policy
Membership:
Latest: 
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 17130
Online Now [55]:
Visitors: 54
Members: 0
Staff Online Now:
Page Views:
General
