#1: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:12 am ---- Yep, this again been here before ..
Long story short got the top bar out and move onto the bottom bar. Been hitting it for a very long time and finally it started to move. Except that it was only moving on one side and pushing the hub out of the other..
Bar has clearly moved:
On the other side (where it should be coming out of):
The increasing gap between the trailing arm:
I don't know what I can do? Pretty stuck with this.. as the bar is really seized, also tried the bolt and socket method which didn't do anything either.
Harry
#2: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: cartoonhead, Location: North ManchesterPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:16 am ---- put the nut and bolt method on the opposit side to where your hitting and then give 2 bangs on the other side and then retighten the nut , hit 2 times - retighten nut nad so on
also lift the hub by a few mm to take the weight off the torsion bar
#3: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:17 am ---- do you just want to lower the rear?
if not i would just knocked out the whole arms and get the bars press out.
#4: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:20 am ---- I guess it's all I can do but the hits are just hitting the hub out? when I actually hit the bar..
Yeah I'm just trying to lower it, really don't want to go to that length as the brake will need rebleeding and I know I will f*** something up. Last edited by Harry on Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
#5: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:22 am ---- Right harry
Hit it the wrong way, it will go back that way
But the bars wont come out
I did this on mine, arm came off so i replaced the bearings to
#6: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:22 am ---- or you can put something to hold the arm in place (like a few block of wood or whatever) and keep hitting the bar.
the bolt and nuts method i highly doubt it would work; it don't even work on my 05 axle.
I did this on mine, arm came off so i replaced the bearings to
How can I get the bar out then? really don't want the arm to come off then I honestly don't know what I'm doing
Quote::
or you can put something to hold the arm in place (like a few block of wood or whatever) and keep hitting the bar.
the bolt and nuts method i highly doubt it would work; it don't even work on my 05 axle.
How do you mean with the wood? I've always been sceptical about the bolt method sure it will just rip the thread move than anything.
Do you think if I get someone else to hit the bar whilst I hit the hub back it would work?
that's the same idea, you need something to stop the arm from moving.
#11: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Ape, Location: Clipping the Apex!Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:27 am ---- There's a couple of options, I've used both.
1. Get a mate to hit the stub axle where it meets the tube the same time you hit the torsion bar.
2. put some wood, a bar or another solid object between the stub axle and something solid (wall etc), and hit the bars.
Top bar you knock from drivers side, bottom bar you knock from passenger side.
I did this on mine, arm came off so i replaced the bearings to
How can I get the bar out then? really don't want the arm to come off then I honestly don't know what I'm doing
It knocks out, but you cant get the bar out out of the whole axle, so you still can adjust the arms
Just not get the bar out
#13: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:53 am ---- I see the problem, got my dad out so we could both do it and nothings moving this b*****d
Long shot but if anyone wants to drive to stafford I would gladly pay the petrol costs + more if you could sort it
Addaz I thought of that in my head, surely knocking the arms out and re adjusting would achieve the same thing just be more difficult. Would you have to renew the bearings if you did this?
I see the problem, got my dad out so we could both do it and nothings moving this b*****d
Long shot but if anyone wants to drive to stafford I would gladly pay the petrol costs + more if you could sort it
Addaz I thought of that in my head, surely knocking the arms out and re adjusting would achieve the same thing just be more difficult. Would you have to renew the bearings if you did this?
Yes, as you are disturbing the bearings (but you dont have to)
Knock that bar the wrong way out
Drivers to passengers
A sledge hammer works wonders
#15: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:13 am ---- 9 out of 10 you would destroy the bearing when the arms comes out
#16: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: -RAJ-, Location: COVPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:22 am ---- myt be a stupid question but have you definitely taken the washer out, cant really see from the second pic?
#17: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:43 am ---- Yeah I have removed the washer it's not obvious in the picture.
Sucks about removing the arms don't want to go there as I won't have a clue what I'm doing not sure what to do about it..
#19: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:53 am ---- Still seized thought they could only go out one way anyway?
Still seized thought they could only go out one way anyway?
Do you even read my posts?
You can knock it out that way
But you can take the torsion bar out of the axle if you do (as in hold it in your hand off the car)
#21: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: TezzaMcTezza, Location: SomersetPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:00 am ---- I had to resort to using a hydraulic ram between a bolt in the torsion bar and a steel stanchion holding the workshop up!
Not exactly suitable for the diy-er tho!
You are beating it from the right side aren't you?
Still seized thought they could only go out one way anyway?
Do you even read my posts?
You can knock it out that way
But you can take the torsion bar out of the axle if you do (as in hold it in your hand off the car)
Read yes, fully understand the concept not 100%
Just tried both sides again and it's not budging tbh I probably just suck :/
Was mainly hitting it from passengers to drivers side, the top one was so easy I don't understand how this one isn't
#23: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:11 am ---- Mine was the same
Bottom was the hard one
Bearings arent hard to replace tbh, and if you 100 percent cant get it out, just move the arm
#24: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:18 am ---- How would you go around replacing them and how much are they? Also would the arb have to be removed for your method? I'm thinking not but if it is my mechanical logic has failed
#25: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:22 am ---- Yes it would if you wanted the arm to come off
£70 odd for both sides, and wee wee easy
#26: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:24 am ---- Why is the arm moving on mine so much if the arb is still connected then
Think you should have a road trip to mine and help me I will cover costs
#27: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:31 am ---- because the anti-roll are only pressed onto the end plate. they are not held by any bolts.
#28: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:06 pm ---- Put the other torsion bar back, with the washers and bolts and try the seized bar again. This will help stopping the arm from coming off.
#29: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm ---- Well now I have broke my 4lbs hammer
I would do that steve but I had to chisel them out so currently waiting for some on order from pug.
Don't know what the next call is, maybe get a garage a have a go at it I know I would probably do more damage than good removing the arm I normally do.
#30: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:22 pm ----
Harry wrote:
Well now I have broke my 4lbs hammer
Estwing make the best hammers if your looking for a replacement & want quality
Estwing make the best hammers if your looking for a replacement & want quality
Cheers I probably will, afterall it was my dads I think owe him a whole new toolbox
#32: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Ape, Location: Clipping the Apex!Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:37 pm ---- No-one's mentioned heating it up yet. May be worth getting a small torch from B&Q and letting a little fire loose on the casting to free it up in the past. It's worked for me in the past
#33: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:44 pm ---- I use to have a small one but even though it looked the business it couldn't heat up my other 206's hub hot enough, have a friend with welding equipment I could try and give it a shot there. Just worried about damaging the brake lines etc
#34: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: NorthantsBen, Location: Raunds, NorthamptonshirePosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:49 pm ---- I put a b&q mini blow torch thing on them sometimes, heating up while hitting, sometimes hold it on fOr ages, most of the time it goes,
Worse one I ever had was a 180 one funny enoth lol
#35: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:09 pm ---- I could do that myself, just to clarify the bars can be hit out either way? that way I could loosen it up first and hit the opposite way then back again.
#36: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: mattymj, Location: NorfolkPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:30 pm ---- I had to heat mine to get them out, needed to re-tap the threat after as it got damaged from all the violence hehe
#37: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:38 pm ---- Yeah my thread is completely messed up
#38: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:49 pm ---- Heat is good, but get a big sledge
I could do that myself, just to clarify the bars can be hit out either way? that way I could loosen it up first and hit the opposite way then back again.
yes,
you knock the bar out whatever way you want.
but if you want to take the whole bar out then you will have to hit it the way that addaz stated before
#40: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: -RAJ-, Location: COVPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:18 am ---- you make any progress on this mate? i tried mine today and im in exactly the same situation. top bar came out no problem but the bottom bar wont even move on the drivers side, when hitting from the passenger side it just pushes the whole arm on the drivers.
tried hitting it from drivers to passenger too but no movement, also tried heating and was really giving it some when hitting and didnt even move a mm.
i think next step for me is sledge hammer...:(
#41: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:28 am ---- sledge hammer will just damage the thread of the bars.
#42: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: -RAJ-, Location: COVPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:35 am ---- to prevent damage i put the torx bolt back in loose and used a 16mm socket that went over the bolt and hit the socket with an extension bar on it
my thinking was bigger hammer more power
#43: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:38 am ---- o. sorry, my bad, for some reason i saw sliding hammer
ya i use 7lb hammer to knock out the whole arm
#44: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: -RAJ-, Location: COVPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:44 am ---- yh im only using a 4lb, i got really happy that the top bar came out 1st time, didnt think the 2nd would be this hard, mines a 2006 as well
you make any progress on this mate? i tried mine today and im in exactly the same situation. top bar came out no problem but the bottom bar wont even move on the drivers side, when hitting from the passenger side it just pushes the whole arm on the drivers.
tried hitting it from drivers to passenger too but no movement, also tried heating and was really giving it some when hitting and didnt even move a mm.
i think next step for me is sledge hammer...:(
Yeah I got it done but instead I accepted the torsion bar wasn't moving out the arm so hit the arm just far enough for the other end of the torsion bar to be dragged out of the axle. I then jacked it up to the desired height, hit the arm (wasn't easy to get accurate) and then just adjusted the other side to match.
After all this (and hitting the whole arm out hitting the torsion bar) it still hasn't moved a mm, absolute b*****d. Really cba to adjust the height again because of it
#46: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: -RAJ-, Location: COVPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:50 am ---- ahh i see i suppose that works the same really, you have to take the anti roll bar out to do it that way?
#47: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:53 am ---- You don't need to remove it you just need each arm to be independent but when you hit the bar out it will push one of the covers off anyway. Just make sure you undo the 13mm nut on one side otherwise it will be difficult to get the arm back on.
Can try and explain it better if you like addaz explained it to me for ages I didn't really get it until I did it.
#48: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:02 pm ---- might be a good time to change the trailing arm bearing as well
#49: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: -RAJ-, Location: COVPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:40 pm ---- did it the way harry said and it has seemed to work, looks abit low so will re-adjust tomorrow and give it a drive
#50: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:54 pm ---- Sounds good, get a pic up? Mines in the present wip thread in my sig it's very low as well but I like it.
#51: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: -RAJ-, Location: COVPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:54 am ---- just finished re-adjusting it and actually managed to get the lower torsion bar out this time.
for anyone in the same situation, as harry said push the whole of the trailing arm over on the drivers side so that the torision bar on the passenger side just comes free. Then what i did was go under the car and give the torsion bar a few yanks this should free it up a little on the drivers side, then go give it a few hits from driver to passeger, this is how mine came free.
heres how she looks now, not too low but just about a 30mm drop all round. big thanks to Ape for his guide and harry
#52: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:13 am ---- Good to know that the info i gave to harry came in useful
Good to know that the info i gave to harry came in useful
yh thanks for telling him lol
#54: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: kieron, Location: in the housePosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:26 am ---- harry have you done this? ill pop round if you want see if we could do i, i got a massive sledge if needed
#55: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:31 am ---- Don't thank me I know nothing I just did what addaz told me to
Yeah it's done keiron I couldn't get the bar out but just moved the arm instead cheers anyway. I dunno if it's too low at the back though so may re adjust it sometime..
On a side note, when the car is on the floor it's only around 10mm off the bump stops so should I trim them down to allow more travel? and if so what with
#56: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: kieron, Location: in the housePosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:34 am ---- i would cut the down or remove then as it will just rebound of them but the you may bottom out if you are using normal shocks
#57: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:38 am ---- Nah using spax ones they are completely rock solid, won't it be bad to remove them incase it hits the actual axel?
#58: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:58 am ---- If the trailing arms are 10mm away from the bump stops it's too low!
#59: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:35 am ----
Edward wrote:
If the trailing arms are 10mm away from the bump stops it's too low!
The gap on the arm that hit the bump stop is yes.
And I'm well aware it's too low for handling purposes, but I think it looks good
#60: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: NorthantsBen, Location: Raunds, NorthamptonshirePosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:44 am ---- I have cut them before,
Teebag has cut ones too tho car was too low so we raised it up a tiny bit
#61: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:46 am ----
NorthantsBen wrote:
I have cut them before,
Teebag has cut ones too tho car was too low so we raised it up a tiny bit
How would you go around cutting them? could just grind them not sure if it's the best way though.
#62: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:48 am ---- if you cut the bump stop it would void the warranty.
better to hit the bump stop than bottoming out the dampers.
#63: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:51 am ----
Seabook wrote:
if you cut the bump stop it would void the warranty.
better to hit the bump stop than bottoming out the dampers.
Does the car actually have a warrenty? it's nearly 10 years and I wouldn't ever take it to a pug garage anyway.
#64: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:54 am ----
Harry wrote:
Seabook wrote:
if you cut the bump stop it would void the warranty.
better to hit the bump stop than bottoming out the dampers.
Does the car actually have a warrenty? it's nearly 10 years and I wouldn't ever take it to a pug garage anyway.
i though you just install some new dampers
anyway that doesn't make any difference. hitting the bump stop is better than bottoming out.
#65: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:21 am ---- Fair enough yeah I have spax ones on would never use the standard dampers this low
#66: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: NorthantsBen, Location: Raunds, NorthamptonshirePosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:52 am ---- Pop them off car then Stanley knife goes through them fine,
#67: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:16 pm ---- Seriously, they are there for a reason! Even if you cut them off, and your car will go lower, you'll be hitting metal, which will be worse. Through experience i know your axle will not last.
#68: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Harry, Location: StaffordPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:50 pm ----
Steve206 wrote:
Seriously, they are there for a reason! Even if you cut them off, and your car will go lower, you'll be hitting metal, which will be worse. Through experience i know your axle will not last.
Didn't want to cut them off I'm not completely retarded
When you look at them they are pretty huge, just wondered if you can shrink them a bit whilst still keeping the rubber stopping force but allow more travel. Didn't know if it would benefit at all.
#69: Re: Torsion bar.. Author: Seabook, Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:51 pm ---- you would just put more force to the piston. there is a reason why the bump stop is that long.
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been here before ..
thought they could only go out one way anyway?
