#1: Auto jerky gear change Author: jaypug206, Location: LondonPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:14 pm ---- Hi,
I have an auto 206 1.4 8v 2004 automatic.
When i 1st bought the car gear change from 1 to 2 driving in auto mode was jerky, was like that for a month and for 5 months been fine. But now it does it here and there. I was thinking about doing an gearbox fluid change, do you think that might help the gear change from being jerky???
I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what it might possibly be.
Thanks
#2: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:07 am ---- Could try a fluid change, or ecu update
#3: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:13 am ---- Never does any harm to change the fluid but AL4 box still produces smooth gearchanges on some disgustingly old and bad fluid. It matches up rpm to gear and wheel speed to produce the smoother change. However, if the engine is running richer than it should be then this messes things up and produces lumpier gearchanges than normal as rpm is artificially higher than it should be on re-engaging the drive
So are you using noticeably more fuel than usual? is the first clue
Things that will affect your fuel/air ratio
BASICS. Is the air filter clean? Plugs good?
Is the engine coming up to normal temp? (thermostat problem?) If it's running over cool then ECU thinks it's constantly needing more fuel, that affects rpm and produces poor gearchanges. Again, more fuel being wasted
Is the MAP sensor giving wrong signals to ECU and telling it more air is going in than really is so ECU is putting more fuel in to match it? (Symptoms of high fuel consumption and lumpy gearchange)
As your car is EOBD2 if you can connect up and view the ECU stored data then high fuel trim figures might give you a clue that car is adjusting a lot to compensate for incorrect sensor data. If you change any major fuel/air affecting components then resetting the ECU so it relearns the new best settings is a good idea too
Mind you, 1st to 2nd isn't the most pleasant of gearchanges on any car and if you have a light load in the car and involved in stop/start traffic then switching on the ice button will mean you move off in 2nd and change up sooner for a more pleasant drive
#4: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: jaypug206, Location: LondonPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:52 am ---- Where could I get an ECU update apart from Peugeot??? I have googled but no luck Last edited by jaypug206 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:57 am; edited 2 times in total
#5: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: tomd0801754, Location: MoscowPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:56 am ----
jaypug206 wrote:
I havent notice any changes in fuel/if so ever so slightly.
Air filter is standard K&N about 2-3 months old, clean.
Spark plugs I have no idea, how do I check? Can I check myself???
The car is just a little then half way so its perfect from what the 206 manual says.
When you talk about things like MAP sensor I'm completely lost, I'm an amateur sorry.
I know 1st to 2nd gear isnt the smoothest but why I know its not right is because the majority of the time it is smooth (you do ever so slightly realise the change) but what it does now is a harsh jerky gear change and the car kind of jumps forward as it changes.
Where could I get an ECU update apart from Peugeot??? I have googled but no luck
IIRC Only Peugeot can update the software.
#6: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: jaypug206, Location: LondonPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:08 am ---- Thanks for you help people really appreciate it!
#7: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: jaypug206, Location: LondonPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:07 am ---- I havent notice any changes in fuel/if so ever so slightly.
Air filter is standard K&N oem replacement about 2-3 months old, clean.
Spark plugs are brand spanking new bosch super plus just put them on now.
The car temperature is just a little then half way so its perfect from what the 206 manual says, never been any kind of thermostat problems.
I took the MAP sensor gave it a wipe but to be honest it didnt lool dirty at all.
I know 1st to 2nd gear isnt the smoothest but why I know its not right is because the majority of the time it is so smooth you basically notice it but what it does now is a harsh jerky gear change and the car kind of jumps forward as it changes.
ANY OTHER HELP PLEASE AS IT STILL JERKY? I SHOULD MENTION WHEN DRIVING IT IN TIPTRONIC 1ST TO 2ND GEAR CHANGE IS SMOOTH AS IT SHOULD BE.
I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT AS IM A STUDENT AND DONT HAVE A LOT OF MONEY TO THROW AT IT.
I know I can do a gearbox fluid change but I reckon that wont change anything as the gearbox sensor has no flashing lights yet.
Where could I get an ECU update apart from Peugeot??? I have googled but no luck
#8: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: tomd0801754, Location: MoscowPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:46 am ----
jaypug206 wrote:
I havent notice any changes in fuel/if so ever so slightly.
Air filter is standard K&N oem replacement about 2-3 months old, clean.
Spark plugs are brand spanking new bosch super plus just put them on now.
The car temperature is just a little then half way so its perfect from what the 206 manual says, never been any kind of thermostat problems.
I took the MAP sensor gave it a wipe but to be honest it didnt lool dirty at all.
I know 1st to 2nd gear isnt the smoothest but why I know its not right is because the majority of the time it is so smooth you basically notice it but what it does now is a harsh jerky gear change and the car kind of jumps forward as it changes.
ANY OTHER HELP PLEASE AS IT STILL JERKY? I SHOULD MENTION WHEN DRIVING IT IN TIPTRONIC 1ST TO 2ND GEAR CHANGE IS SMOOTH AS IT SHOULD BE.
I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT AS IM A STUDENT AND DONT HAVE A LOT OF MONEY TO THROW AT IT.
I know I can do a gearbox fluid change but I reckon that wont change anything as the gearbox sensor has no flashing lights yet.
Where could I get an ECU update apart from Peugeot??? I have googled but no luck
ONLY PEUGEOT CAN UPDATE! Please see my above post if you are confused to why I wrote in caps.
#9: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: jaypug206, Location: LondonPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:53 am ---- YES I SAW THAT THANK YOU
WAS JUST ASKING OTHER PEOPLE IF THEY KNEW, IF THAT IS OK WITH YOU
#10: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:29 am ---- So gearchanges on tiptronic are good and majority of the time they are good on auto but occasionally you get whiplash on the 1st to 2nd in auto? What else do you notice on these bad auto gearchanges? Is the rpm coming up higher than normal?
Bosch plugs can be a problem on some engines by the way, you might be all right but if you start getting uneven idle, hesitation on acceleration then the spark timing is affected by the different type of plug, be ready to stick standard NGK's back in if you get problems
MAP sensor cleaning does no harm but the sensor doesn't really work that way, it's a pressure sensor with integral temp sensor and it's best to look at the output signals if you have the gear. But you're not using a lot more fuel so eng temp and MAP may well be fine.
Is it a physical thing do you think? ie is the engine moving on these bad gearchanges? Can you feel or hear a thump? ie is the engine rocking on its mountings? What mileage is it? There should be no difference with tiptronic where you tell it to change gear or the auto tells it when to change
As the car was running fine for months and still runs fine most of the time then I can't see the answer being found in an ECU update. Last edited by Deckchair5 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
#11: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:31 am ----
Deckchair5 wrote:
Bosch plugs can be a problem on some engines by the way, you might be all right but if you start getting uneven idle, hesitation on acceleration then the spark timing is affected by the different type of plug, be ready to stick standard NGK's back in if you get problems
Thats the WORSE piece of advice you could give to anyone with a 206!
NGK plugs SHOULD NOT be fitted to a 206!
#12: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:35 am ---- Take a look recommended spark plugs
#13: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:40 am ----
No need to, only idiots fit NGK plugs to 206's, the PSA Peugeot / Citroen technical service bulletin that was sent out to both dealer networks many years ago warning of NGK spark plug problems has been proved many times over the years, NGK's cause problems with the ecu, electrics & misfires.
There was even another thread on here only last week moaning about NGK plugs.
#14: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:49 am ---- 206 engines vary enormously, certain engines require different plugs, to say the whole of the 206 range requires a certain plug when it is a recommended and standard fit NGK item for many of the range is blinkered thinking
I have 3 Peugeots here all running very happily on NGKs because that is the standard fit item for them
#15: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: sx206, Location: essexPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:20 am ---- going off topic a bit,but i also have only ever used ngk plugs in wifes 1.4 206,coming up to 75000 miles and never a problem.i think it had more to do with a certain useless coilpack (sagem).
#16: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: tomd0801754, Location: MoscowPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:32 am ---- Why ask others if I had already given you a definative answer.
Btw... You left caps on.
#17: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: ExoVyper, Location: Waiting for the tugboats to push me into port (Whitehaven)Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:37 am ---- FUNK YEAH! CAPS LOCK
#18: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: jaypug206, Location: LondonPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:09 pm ---- UPDATE:
I put some BP Ultimate in after the petrol light was on, I full tanked it. Gear change was smooth and never jerked at all.
After that tank was finish put another half tank of BP Ultimate, run so smooth.
Now after all that BP Ultimate in, I usually buy regular unleaded from Shell, it has now starting jerking again. Could this be a coincidence? It does not jerk all the time but does quite often. When I was running BP Ultimate, it did not jerk at all.
Could someone please help me? As I cannot afford to keep buying BP Ultimate at £1.45.
Thanks
#19: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: banboots, Location: AyrshirePosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:37 pm ---- Hey I have a 1.4 auto and was having major change issues between 1 and 2. It would rev about 3K then bang into 2nd gear but okay when heated up it got smoother. Put it into peugeot to get checked out properly and they changed the pressure vavles in the gearbox and it been great since but still revs about 3K when accelerating, again when cold I let off just before it changes into 2nd but this is only on first gear change after 600yds or so it goes fine. The auto ain't gonna win any races lol. I have to say to "Deckchair5" some very interesting comments and good to know, cheers for that....
#20: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:46 pm ---- The reving to 3k when cold happens by design. The gearbox will try and get the engine temperature up to ideal operating level by using higher rev ranges.
-----
The ECU has 10 gear changing laws allowing the operation of the transmission to be altered to the driver's style of driving, to the chosen program and to the internal and external conditions.The following laws are therefore obtained:
• 6 laws: for autoadaptivity,
• 1 law: for the snow program,
• 1 law: "unlocked" for low temperature operation,
• 1 law: for depollution when cold (heating),
• 1 law: for automatic transmission temperature protection
#21: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: banboots, Location: AyrshirePosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:56 pm ---- Not gonna argue with that....sounds about right. The auto wouldn't have been my choice but my work gave it to me to run about in when I got ill so cant complain as dont pay the bills. I have blinged it up a good bit infact quite a lot, hate putting petrol in it costs a fortune so suits me now to just potter about in it. Looks good and nice to be in thanks to full black leather and a soon to come 180 steering wheel, armster arm rest and lots of other nice wee add ons....wish I had a petrol account lol
#22: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: jaypug206, Location: LondonPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:09 pm ---- Thanks for the info.
BanBoots, do you know how much peugeot charged for the pressure valves?
Also when it does 1-2 gear change and it is smooth, its barely noticeable, is yours like that now? Yeah the auto does have high revs in gear 1.
#23: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: deanparkr, Location: United KingdomPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:11 pm ---- You might find this document useful as well which decribes everything there is to know about the AL4 gearbox:
#24: Re: Auto jerky gear change Author: banboots, Location: AyrshirePosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:14 pm ---- I got other work done but think about 350 for the valves. Total bill was almost 800. Change from 1 to 2 is smooth as silk.
PS looking for a battery box lid for an auto....help help help lol
I will read that later its a bit large, suitable for pan reading lol
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Why ask others if I had already given you a definative answer.
