#1: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:45 am ---- The earth wire 'A' was connected to the Battery earth strap at point 'B' but i noticed some movement and on closer inspection the bolt had infact snapped and was just sitting in the hole and that triangular piece of metal is only fastened down with one bolt which is just out of sight at the bottom right corner of the triangular thingy, what i want to know is would it be possible to connect 'A' the 2 earths to that 1 remaining bolt or maybe would it be okay if i got a bolt and secured at point 'C'
ALSO if when i unscrew the only other bolt on that plate im not going to hear an engine part or anything drop out the bottom of the car am i because i don't know what its purpose is
#2: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:56 am ---- Just been down and shot it from a different angle, could the earths be secured ar point 'D'
#3: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:01 am ---- How the hell have you only got one nut holding the triangluar plate on?
#4: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:39 am ---- what do you mean? is that a trick question, i can only see 1? but thats not the question i want answering anyways lol
#5: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:43 am ---- You should have 3 nuts. That triangular plate is what holds the gearbox up on the chassis.
#6: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: lottley93, Location: Bournemouth/Newcastle/KentPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:50 am ---- one of those moments where the realisation makes your stomach suddenly drop out through your a**e... haha
#7: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:51 am ----
lottley93 wrote:
one of those moments where the realisation makes your stomach suddenly drop out through your a**e... haha
Thank god he lives nowhere near me. Wont be driving around behind 206's wondering when im suddenly gonna see the gearbox drop to the ground.
#8: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:55 am ---- holly c*ap, so if i lose the last one i can say goodbye to my gearbox then i suppose. I have said it before and i am going to say it again, wish i had never bought this car, had it 6 month and it has been one thing after another and as you have pointed out here comes yet another, fanf**kintastic.
So i think i will pass on unbolting the last nut for the earth strap, any suggestions other than a dark night, a small plot of waste land and a jerry can full of peti?
#9: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Steve180, Location: CoventryPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:01 am ---- The two bolts you need aren't expensive and all you need is a torque wrench to ensure the bolts are torque'd up properly. The gearbox defo won't go anywhere then. I would do this A.S.A.P!
#10: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:08 am ---- but thats where i may run into another problem point 'B' has the reamains of what was once a bolt i think. i can't see any threads for the bolt to screw into, as for the point marked ? i will have to go back down now and have a closer look, thanks Steve
#11: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: rick-gti, Location: welshpool, mid walesPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:14 am ---- Can you drill them out and get them re-tapped?
#12: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Steve180, Location: CoventryPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:21 am ---- Ahh I see. If the bolt stil has remnants left in the hole, that'll need either drilling out or if the remains of the bolt are holding the gearbox mount properly, it might be worth welding a head onto the nut so that it won't move, that way, the bolt cannot come out and the joint will be strengthened and hopefully (hopefully meaning I don't know for sure as I've never had this problem) the bolts will hold for years to come. Either than. Get a jack, support the gearbox, take the assembly out and just replace it. For the whole lot I think it works out from Peugeot at about £80.00 (might be more than this, if you want a concrete price, send me last 8 digits of your chasis and I'll check on dealer portal/ service box for you).
Hope this helps.
#13: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Ahoward87, Location: HertfordshirePosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:22 am ---- Take the weight of the gearbox with a block of wood and a jack, unbolt gearbox mount etc to get to the triangular plate that has the bracket for the clutch cable, take that off and drill it out and re tap it.
I dread to think what would happen driving a car and the gearbox mount coming loose. Pretty dangerous if you ask me so I would get that fixed ASAP dude.
#14: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:53 am ----
Steve180 wrote:
send me last 8 digits of your chasis and I'll check on dealer portal/ service box for you).
Hope this helps.
Here you are Steve 41486056
#15: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:06 am ---- well as soon as i can get this earth problem sorted i can go about getting the battery back on and its not going anywhere before its fixed right, any ideas on sorting this earth problem i have then, does the ring that has the chewed piece of earth wire have to be bolted down to something and if so what options do i have looking at the photos above. I really need this car back on the road asap as i am my grans main carer and if i am out of action/without transport my gran may aswell be up s**t creek without a paddle also. Suggestions needed and hopefully get the local mechanic to have a look today, may even be able to get my uncle whos an ex fitter to drill out those old bolts.
#16: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EAR Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:10 am ---- As long as the main earth wire is attached to a solid metal part of the engine / gearbox & also the bodyshell it will work fine.
You need to sort that gearbox mount out!
#17: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:23 am ---- yes to be able to get the mount fixed i need to sort the earth issue out first otherwise the car will not start will it?
#18: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:32 am ----
206DAG wrote:
i need to sort the earth issue out first otherwise the car will not start will it?
Nope, it will just burn the wiring loom out behind the instrument cluster
Any solid metal part of the engine / gearbox will do for the earth
#19: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Seabook, Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:51 am ---- just earth it elso where.
a lot easier
#20: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:07 pm ----
Seabook wrote:
just earth it elso where.
a lot easier
It was the else that i wasn't sure about lol
anyway i found a new place for it after a little help from MrBsi.
Problem Solved
#21: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: LeeThr, Location: North West WalesPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:18 pm ---- Now get that gearbox mount sorted!
#22: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:56 pm ---- 1st thing on my list for tomorrow before anything else no danger there matey
#23: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:13 pm ---- 70p each for the screws
#24: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:15 pm ---- Thanks Lee, i have been trying to find the right ones but as i don't know the correct name or what they should look like i am having trouble finding any, could you point me in the right direction please, either a link or just the name so i can google search for 2 new ones
#25: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:20 am ---- Get them from Peugeot. They are 70p
#26: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:52 am ---- what exactly do i ask for, gearbox mounting studs, bolts or screws thanks Lee
#27: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:03 am ---- Yeah just ask for the gearbox mount bolts
#28: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:11 pm ---- Nice one thank you, will try and get down monday morning because the guy thats doing it can't fit me in until after lunch time monday, have to say though the gearbox has been secure enough since the start of August 2011 and would have thought if it was going to break loose and drop out the bottom of the car it would have done it before now, i have had hold of it and tried moving it with both hands today and there is no sign of movement what so ever so that 1 bolt thats holding it to the mount is one strong mother, it doesn't seem to be knocking and ive no strange noise when changing gear or anything so i think i will be okay to do my usual running about this weekend before he gets to take a look monday.
However i did some searching on the net this aft and found some other ideas as to how to remove the bolt, one was to remove the mounting plate and weld a nut to the bit of bolt thats left sticking out
#29: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EAR Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:02 pm ---- Both those videos are basic mechanic knowledge, i wouldnt be running your car about at all though. You'll end up with another sheared nut, and a lot of damage. If something does happen, i wouldnt come on here telling anyone.
Get the job done first, all will be well!
#30: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:53 pm ---- Yes your right Steve, makes sense really because if it's going to happen i would bet a years salary it happen to me, and believe me it wouldn't be something i would be singing from the rooftops never mind coming on here and telling anyone
This weekend is going to feel more like a week without my wheels
#31: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:34 am ---- [quote="206DAG"] it doesn't seem to be knocking and ive no strange noise when changing gear or anything so i think i will be okay to do my usual running about this weekend before he gets to take a look monday.
quote]
Well it sounded like you were going to drive it! How long have you owned the car? Looks like the previous owner might have played part in this.
#32: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: Alex90, Location: Newcastle-under-lymePosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:52 am ---- thats engine and gearbox mount,in 206 you have 3 of them one on the left,one on the right and one behind engine,if you gonna lost your last one screwe from right one engine ll hit the road crushing everythink,after that you can take your car on scrap yard,so better sort it out
#33: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: 206DAG, Location: WakefieldPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:38 am ---- All sorted now secure and safe to drive.
#34: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:21 am ---- Its not too difficult really-as far as the earth goes earths are called earths because they all commonly go to the ground or the earth which on a car is the earth or negative side of the battery-meaning if its a wire that needs to go to earth you can fasten it securely anywhere that is already earthing well itself-like most of the bolts on the engine/gearbox and most of the entire car for that matter,just find a nice thick bolt on your engine or gearbox that can hold your connector and use that-remember the entire shell of the car and the engine and gearbox are all earthed to the battery so you cant go far wrong mate.as for your stuck snapped bolt if you go to your local macheen mart or tuol station they all usualy sell a couple of methods for bolt extraction such as a drill and die set that you will drill carefully into the centre of the snapped nut then using the tool in the usual anti-clockwise motion for loosening,the tool enters the bolt and the more you turn the deeper the tool digs until it hits the bottom then you continue to turn in the same direction and this slowly loosens the snapped bolt with the tool impailed in the centre of it.Next take your details to your local peugeot dealer and order the bolts for the triangular plate-they are cheap and you cant go wrong with fitting them.
#35: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:17 pm ----
bezford wrote:
Its not too difficult really-as far as the earth goes earths are called earths because they all commonly go to the ground or the earth which on a car is the earth or negative side of the battery-meaning if its a wire that needs to go to earth you can fasten it securely anywhere that is already earthing well itself-like most of the bolts on the engine/gearbox and most of the entire car for that matter,just find a nice thick bolt on your engine or gearbox that can hold your connector and use that-remember the entire shell of the car and the engine and gearbox are all earthed to the battery so you cant go far wrong mate.as for your stuck snapped bolt if you go to your local macheen mart or tuol station they all usualy sell a couple of methods for bolt extraction such as a drill and die set that you will drill carefully into the centre of the snapped nut then using the tool in the usual anti-clockwise motion for loosening,the tool enters the bolt and the more you turn the deeper the tool digs until it hits the bottom then you continue to turn in the same direction and this slowly loosens the snapped bolt with the tool impailed in the centre of it.Next take your details to your local peugeot dealer and order the bolts for the triangular plate-they are cheap and you cant go wrong with fitting them.
It is not very good to assume all chassis parts are earthed the same because
of the extreme high-current involved when cranking.
Return (earth) paths are actually designed-in to minimise losses which become really big, even with 0.1 Ω difference.
#36: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:12 pm ---- onLook mate im actualy the third person to mention this fact so dont just post to me if you disagree with this,and as far as the main shell and the majority of the engine and gearbox having different levels of earth-thats just not true,the earth circuit on a car is one very large all encompassing basic pole.Why would there be different levels as you say?apart from the starting circuit when cranking(which is issolated totaly anyway)an earth is not altered at all....What you say me be true of the positive circuits present but not for earths....wot losses due you mention anyway?
#37: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EAR Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:31 am ---- Normally when the main negative lead breaks of the gearbox on the 206 when you next go to start the engine it trys to earth itself back through the instrument cluster wiring which results in burning that part of the wiring loom out
You really need the main negative lead connected to the engine ( via the gearbox works just fine ) & the chassis to avoid problems / fires.
#38: Re: URGENT help needed> after finding a snapped bolt for EARTH Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:32 am ----
bezford wrote:
onLook mate im actualy the third person to mention this fact so dont just post to me if you disagree with this,and as far as the main shell and the majority of the engine and gearbox having different levels of earth-thats just not true,the earth circuit on a car is one very large all encompassing basic pole.Why would there be different levels as you say?apart from the starting circuit when cranking(which is issolated totaly anyway)an earth is not altered at all....What you say me be true of the positive circuits present but not for earths....wot losses due you mention anyway?
I did not mean to direct post at you in an unfriendly way.
What I'm saying is the negative side of the battery 'sees' resistance to each unit it is
connected to (starter, alternator, ECU, lights etc) just like the positive.
So the connections and locations of all earth-straps is very much planned by the manufacturer
to minimize this resistance which could cause losses in a way that could affect long-term reliable opperation.
For example, if you move the main -ve battery connection off the gearbox (where all the heavy duty stuff is grounded) and attach it to a more distant part on the chassis, that resistance increase in the path could be as little as 0.01 Ω.
R x I = V
0.01 x 300 = 3 Volts drop when cranking compared to previously.
'Eddy' currents resultant from this longer route (eg alternator charging the battery) could also affect somewhat sensitive ECU/BSI because they want as clean supply possible.
(Remember alternator whine on the radio in the old-days? That was alt. interefernce affecting the headunit and grounding was first thing to check)
So agreed, it can make no difference whatsoever 9 out of 10 times.
But it could also cause problems further down the line so if given a choice,
I would replace earth straps at their original locations just for peace of mind.
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