#1: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:08 pm ---- Hi guys. I know this isn't a 206 but since i joined this forum i have had a fair bit of interest in the car, also the development of it.
To cut a long story short, me and a mate originally built this in 2005. It was owned by him, i already had my own 106 track car.
My mate managed to find a fully track prepped 205 shell that only needed an engine. He didn't want to go down the old mi/gti-6 route because he wanted something different. In the end he decided on a 206 GTI 180 (EW10J4S) engine and found 1 that had covered only 500 miles when lifted from the 206. Im fairly certain it was the first 205 with this engine fitted, we contacted various peugeot tuning companies for info and all said it couldn't be done. To start with we had it running on the standard ecu and multiplex wiring which wasn't ideal. We then ditched that and ran it on a omex 100 and carbs (yes thats an engine with variable valve timing and carbs ) It produced a healthy 197 bhp and 155lb/ft, we were over the moon. The smiles soon wore off so its back in the garage for cams, TB's and omex 500. This next setup made 202bhp and 167 lb/ft, not much gain for the money spent but it drove so much better and idled like a standard car.
After a couple of years and plenty of trackdays my mate decided it was time for a house. So much of my own time and effort went into the car i couldn't resist buying it. I was half way through supercharging my 106 at the time and kept at it for another year. Having such a good all round track car i always had doubts in my mind wether the 106 could be a match for the 205, deep down i knew it wouldn't so i decided to break the 106.
My old supercharged 106
The 205
In the past years i have owned the car its had a full respray, a few extra sets off wheels and just general tidy up. It may be a track car but its my aim to keep it mint, the shell was dry stored for a number of years be for my mate bought it so not single bit of rust any where.
How it looked after the respray
At the end of summer 2011 i decided to strip the car down and rebuild everything. That included fitting a few goodies that i kept from breaking the 106.
#2: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:13 pm ---- Sweet mate can't wait for the updates you have planned
#3: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:19 pm ---- Stripping the car down and mounting the S/C
Making the new Inlet plenum
Custom (removable) strut brace
Once happy with how everything fitted i removed the engine and stripped it down, seam welded the bay and filled all the unused holes in the bulkhead
Sweet mate can't wait for the updates you have planned
Cheers. The S/C conversion is done now so its just a matter of uploading and cathcing up with its current state!
#5: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:22 pm ---- Hmmmmm 11.1 (iirc) with a supercharger?
Strip the engine done and please do something with the compression before a rod says hi?
#6: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:27 pm ---- Could I ask a massive favour mate and when you mount your rad in take some pics as I'm hoping to fit the 205 rad in mine and just need some pics of the mounting points and pluming lines as I need to custom pipe it
Strip the engine done and please do something with the compression before a rod says hi?
Im going by the quote in your sig Hi comp and boost has been used for years. By lowering the compression you need more boost to make it back up!!. Yeah i am running standard internals but good mapping and water/meth injection will keep temps down. Also 9 psi of nice clean linear s/c boost is far more effiecent than hot turbo boost dumped in a 3k
At the end of the day these are a fairly cheap engine, im just pushing it to see what its made of.
Could I ask a massive favour mate and when you mount your rad in take some pics as I'm hoping to fit the 205 rad in mine and just need some pics of the mounting points and pluming lines as I need to custom pipe it
Im not running a 205 rad. Dont have 1 to take a pic of either. From memory the 206 in/outlets are in the middle top and bottom?. 205 is top right and bottom left.
#9: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:46 pm ---- It was the pipes I wanted to see mostly as I wanted to custom pipe it in, it's ok mate no worrys I've found some pics on google.
Strip the engine done and please do something with the compression before a rod says hi?
Im going by the quote in your sig Hi comp and boost has been used for years. By lowering the compression you need more boost to make it back up!!. Yeah i am running standard internals but good mapping and water/meth injection will keep temps down. Also 9 psi of nice clean linear s/c boost is far more effiecent than hot turbo boost dumped in a 3k
At the end of the day these are a fairly cheap engine, im just pushing it to see what its made of.
At least you gave me giggle.......
Yes theoritically you need to build that compression up but the general point is to compress more air into that space than before?
You have no mention of the fueling system, and i personally would like to see the effects on the lifetime of the engine with water added to the combusition chamber.
Yes alcohol may stop the chances of pre ignition, but the pro's just completely outweigh the cons. A STANDARD petrol engine was never designed to withstand alcohol, you may know what your doing but in my eyes
Its a disaster waiting to happen.
And to the note of 'hot boost' at 3k, with the slightly smaller turbine A/R i have chosen the power output may not be amazing, but then again what is for a 1.4? But there will be minimal lag and there is just as much chance as you or i suffering from heat soak.
And as shown by someone from TDI, with a minor modification to the intake system to lower it to 14 degrees he say a 12 percent power increase.
So yeh just saying. I'll go back to my tyre stretch now Last edited by Addaz on Thu May 10, 2012 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
#11: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:02 pm ---- While i was busy with all the fabrication and bodywork i sent everything away to be blasted and poweder coated. All parts have been re-fitted using stainless bolts
The 206 Gti 180 exhaust manifold is a work of art standard. When we first did the conversion it was running a 2.25" exhaust so thats what size flange we used. Im now changing that for a 2.75" so off with the old and on with the new...
Wrapped
Helix 6 paddle fitted
When we first did the engine conversion i fabricated a small box to hold the gear selctor box. The selector boxes are pretty bulky and i needed more room in the tunnel for the new 2.75" exhaust so raised it up as high as possible
The car doesn't run any of the original instruments so i ripped apart the loom and cut it down to the bare minimum. Managed to fill 2 shopping bags of excess wiring so a good bit a weight off
Strip the engine done and please do something with the compression before a rod says hi?
Im going by the quote in your sig Hi comp and boost has been used for years. By lowering the compression you need more boost to make it back up!!. Yeah i am running standard internals but good mapping and water/meth injection will keep temps down. Also 9 psi of nice clean linear s/c boost is far more effiecent than hot turbo boost dumped in a 3k
At the end of the day these are a fairly cheap engine, im just pushing it to see what its made of.
At least you gave me giggle.......
Yes theoritically you need to build that compression up but the general point is to compress more air into that space than before?
You have no mention of the fueling system, and i personally would like to see the effects on the lifetime of the engine with water added to the combusition chamber.
Yes alcohol may stop the chances of pre ignition, but the pro's just completely outweigh the cons. A STANDARD petrol engine was never designed to withstand alcohol, you may know what your doing but in my eyes
Its a disaster waiting to happen.
And to the note of 'hot boost' at 3k, with the slightly smaller turbine A/R i have chosen the power output may not be amazing, but then again what is for a 1.4? But there will be minimal lag and there is just as much chance as you or i suffering from heat soak.
And as shown by someone from TDI, with a minor modification to the intake system to lower it to 14 degrees he say a 12 percent power increase.
So yeh just saying. I'll go back to my tyre stretch now
Yes that is the general point. But why lower the compression to start with when you can make the same power with less boost?. Have you ever driven a low compression engine with no boost??.
Hi comp and boost has been favoured by a lot of top tuning companies for years. You need some good internals and high octane fuel to run it safely but there you go!!.
In an ideal situation i would be running near standard compression forged pistons/rods etc but im willing to find the limit of these engines be for splashing out!.
I'd also like to point out that this is no road car and never will be. The side effects (if any) of water/meth injection aren't likely to cause me any problems be for my engine requires a major overhaul anyway!.
Matt
#13: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: rick-gti, Location: welshpool, mid walesPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:26 pm ---- Looking good mate have allways liked the 205's
Everytime i see a project like this it makes me want my scooby back. I really miss boost lol.
Good look with it mate
#14: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:56 am ---- There is nothing wrong with High Compression Ratio and Boot if your fuel octane enought. IF octane isnt enought you can use water/meth injection kit. And I dont like low comp engines. High Comp with low boost is very sharp and responsible engine.
#15: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:57 am ----
205GTi180 wrote:
Addaz wrote:
205GTi180 wrote:
Addaz wrote:
Hmmmmm 11.1 (iirc) with a supercharger?
Strip the engine done and please do something with the compression before a rod says hi?
Im going by the quote in your sig Hi comp and boost has been used for years. By lowering the compression you need more boost to make it back up!!. Yeah i am running standard internals but good mapping and water/meth injection will keep temps down. Also 9 psi of nice clean linear s/c boost is far more effiecent than hot turbo boost dumped in a 3k
At the end of the day these are a fairly cheap engine, im just pushing it to see what its made of.
At least you gave me giggle.......
Yes theoritically you need to build that compression up but the general point is to compress more air into that space than before?
You have no mention of the fueling system, and i personally would like to see the effects on the lifetime of the engine with water added to the combusition chamber.
Yes alcohol may stop the chances of pre ignition, but the pro's just completely outweigh the cons. A STANDARD petrol engine was never designed to withstand alcohol, you may know what your doing but in my eyes
Its a disaster waiting to happen.
And to the note of 'hot boost' at 3k, with the slightly smaller turbine A/R i have chosen the power output may not be amazing, but then again what is for a 1.4? But there will be minimal lag and there is just as much chance as you or i suffering from heat soak.
And as shown by someone from TDI, with a minor modification to the intake system to lower it to 14 degrees he say a 12 percent power increase.
So yeh just saying. I'll go back to my tyre stretch now
Yes that is the general point. But why lower the compression to start with when you can make the same power with less boost?. Have you ever driven a low compression engine with no boost??.
Hi comp and boost has been favoured by a lot of top tuning companies for years. You need some good internals and high octane fuel to run it safely but there you go!!.
In an ideal situation i would be running near standard compression forged pistons/rods etc but im willing to find the limit of these engines be for splashing out!.
I'd also like to point out that this is no road car and never will be. The side effects (if any) of water/meth injection aren't likely to cause me any problems be for my engine requires a major overhaul anyway!.
Matt
Point one, why would i need to drive a car with LC and no boost?
And yes the gains will be the same, till a point in which your HC engine pre ignites and the LC engine does not but continues to perform.
Your finding the limit by wasting money? Fantastic, and i will retract my statement of a rod coming out the side as its not 'all' about how strong your internals are, its about the fueling more than anything.
No offence here, but you seem to be the person that slaps on nitrous oxide with no real equation or formula on how much you need, and expect it to work miracles.
And yes HC and boost is used, but when did they ever decide to use standard internals?
#16: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: richpowell91, Location: Melton Mowbray LeicestershirePosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:27 pm ---- I was only just reading your project thread on 205gtidrivers, its a great read ill be watching it on there to read how you get on with it.
#17: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:43 am ----
Addaz wrote:
205GTi180 wrote:
Addaz wrote:
205GTi180 wrote:
Addaz wrote:
Hmmmmm 11.1 (iirc) with a supercharger?
Strip the engine done and please do something with the compression before a rod says hi?
Im going by the quote in your sig Hi comp and boost has been used for years. By lowering the compression you need more boost to make it back up!!. Yeah i am running standard internals but good mapping and water/meth injection will keep temps down. Also 9 psi of nice clean linear s/c boost is far more effiecent than hot turbo boost dumped in a 3k
At the end of the day these are a fairly cheap engine, im just pushing it to see what its made of.
At least you gave me giggle.......
Yes theoritically you need to build that compression up but the general point is to compress more air into that space than before?
You have no mention of the fueling system, and i personally would like to see the effects on the lifetime of the engine with water added to the combusition chamber.
Yes alcohol may stop the chances of pre ignition, but the pro's just completely outweigh the cons. A STANDARD petrol engine was never designed to withstand alcohol, you may know what your doing but in my eyes
Its a disaster waiting to happen.
And to the note of 'hot boost' at 3k, with the slightly smaller turbine A/R i have chosen the power output may not be amazing, but then again what is for a 1.4? But there will be minimal lag and there is just as much chance as you or i suffering from heat soak.
And as shown by someone from TDI, with a minor modification to the intake system to lower it to 14 degrees he say a 12 percent power increase.
So yeh just saying. I'll go back to my tyre stretch now
Yes that is the general point. But why lower the compression to start with when you can make the same power with less boost?. Have you ever driven a low compression engine with no boost??.
Hi comp and boost has been favoured by a lot of top tuning companies for years. You need some good internals and high octane fuel to run it safely but there you go!!.
In an ideal situation i would be running near standard compression forged pistons/rods etc but im willing to find the limit of these engines be for splashing out!.
I'd also like to point out that this is no road car and never will be. The side effects (if any) of water/meth injection aren't likely to cause me any problems be for my engine requires a major overhaul anyway!.
Matt
Point one, why would i need to drive a car with LC and no boost?
And yes the gains will be the same, till a point in which your HC engine pre ignites and the LC engine does not but continues to perform.
Your finding the limit by wasting money? Fantastic, and i will retract my statement of a rod coming out the side as its not 'all' about how strong your internals are, its about the fueling more than anything.
No offence here, but you seem to be the person that slaps on nitrous oxide with no real equation or formula on how much you need, and expect it to work miracles.
And yes HC and boost is used, but when did they ever decide to use standard internals?
If you had of driven a low comp engine with no boost you will realise how much power is actually lost!. At a guess i reckon 3-4 psi would be needed to even bring it back upto standard power.
I did take offence to that. I spent best part of 8k on my 106 engine. New crank, steel rods, LOW comp pistons, ARP bolts etc. These parts were needed as it was running 18+ psi. So your saying i have no experience of building engines? or knowledge of what im doing??
Your talking like im the only person ever to put together a low boost conversion on standard interals. Like i said, i have built this to see what it can do. If it all goes wrong 1 day ill look at how long its lasted and decide on fitting another standard engine or to uprade the internals.
#18: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Gti180Mac, Location: ScotlandPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:02 am ---- Fair comment!!
#19: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:56 pm ---- Anyway, back on topic
Here's the 75mm TB im using, its from a 3 series bimmer. Had to trim a few bits down and also modify the spindle to accept a vauxhall yoke. I like the vauxhall cable because it has a push on ball fitting instead of the bike brake type end. Also a vauxhall vectra cable was perfect length. I cut the top part of the vectra pedal off and welded it too the 205 pedal for a OE fit
Engine back in
When i was happy with all the wireing i fitted the rad, oil coolers, boost pipes and all other parts.
#20: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: sicskate, Location: Margate, KentPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:35 pm ---- Awesome project!
I especially like the inlet and the custom top mounts
Well done for keeping at it and ignoring the usual bs and banter.
Most 180 owners struggle to hit the the standard (book) 180 figure, full stop.
Have you done any upgrades to improve chassis flex or general handling?
A full cage through the bulkhead would cool.
I look forward to more updates.
#21: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Sun May 13, 2012 4:10 am ---- Cheers
The engine bay is seam welded and the shell is fitted with a Safety Devices C44 challenge cage.
#22: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 00budham00, Location: IpsPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:39 am ---- That looks sweet , I just jizzed what sort of bhp you reckon this will produce ?
#23: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:28 pm ----
00budham00 wrote:
That looks sweet , I just jizzed what sort of bhp you reckon this will produce ?
Its already done mate. It made 306 bhp
#24: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Mattie-RS, Location: A Track near you ;)Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:04 pm ---- Love looking at these projects!!!
Fair play too you doing in, high CR and supercharger is quite popular!! hopefully the bottom end will hold out along as you don't push the boundaries to far!!
#25: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: JamieM, Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:43 pm ---- I watch this on Saxperience, as said love it.
#26: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:15 pm ---- Decided on a graphite grey colour for the wheels, they needed a refurb so did that be for fitted the new tyres. Also tried my new AP's for size behind the wheel to check clearance.....tight!!!
The first exhaust i made was too loud. I could of altered it but decided to start again from scratch using top quality silencers and mandrel bends.
AP 4 pots
296mm 2 peice grooved disks
Carbon Lorraine pads
Standard rear brakes with drilled and grooved disks
#28: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:26 pm ---- Nice updates, do you have any pics with the wheels on the car??
#30: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: shell-vt, Location: durhamPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:51 am ---- loving it.. are you on 205drivers aswell?
#31: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:32 am ---- yes i am. Its Matt, you had my old vts dash of me i think?
#32: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: ryanovsalford, Location: manchesterPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:40 am ---- this things going to be like a rocket love it keep up the hard work doing a good job
#33: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Nimminz, Location: Durham, NE England, UKPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:51 pm ---- This looks a very nice project, love the work you've done. The only thing i wondered about is the stainless bolts in the suspension. What tensile strength were the originals? AFAIK even A4 grade stailess is only equivalent to ~6.8 whereas most suspension systems I've worked with are 8.8 at least. Not a criticism at all mate, just wondering.
One of the best projects i've seen on here recently!
#34: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:57 pm ---- If you take a closer look all at the critical bolts (suspension/wishbones/ball joints/ARB/caliper bolts etc) they are all oringinal spec bolts (8.8 and 12.9). The only ones that are stainless on the suspension are the top mount bolts which A4 stainless cap heads are more than upto the job for.
Thanks for bringing it up though as i have seen people using the wrong grade bolts on suspension components.
#36: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: shell-vt, Location: durhamPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:42 am ----
205GTi180 wrote:
yes i am. Its Matt, you had my old vts dash of me i think?
yer ... what rear beam are you useing .. thers usually x1 or2 309 beams on 309gti goodwood owners forum is boring but some good bits come up..
#37: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:44 am ---- 205 beam with 25mm ARB and Bilstein grp n tarmac shocks.
Dont see the point in running a 309 beam without using 309 front end, i wont do that as i have custom shafts already so would need another wider pair.
#38: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:04 pm ---- Here's a few pics and vids from the cars first proper test day at Santa Pod. I managed to pull some good times, was averaging low 13s but my best was a 12.7 @ 117mph.
#39: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:52 pm ---- Amazing. Did you ever done compression test on that engine. If you did can you remember how much bar or psi showed on gauge?
#40: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: v6saloon, Location: ilkestonPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:38 am ---- Hi mate, ive got a sorrento 205 with the 180 lump, i would love to supercharge it, were all the bits hard to source? Anything that needed fabricating? Any help is much appreciated, here is a pic i159.photobucket.com/a...C00169.jpg
#41: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:28 pm ---- nice to see the car and have a chat about the car at fcs, I was with my mate with the 'green monster' 205.
#42: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: Andrew, Location: Black Country Ay IPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:42 pm ---- Love how clean everything about this is, specially the engine bay
Hi mate, ive got a sorrento 205 with the 180 lump, i would love to supercharge it, were all the bits hard to source? Anything that needed fabricating? Any help is much appreciated, here is a pic i159.photobucket.com/a...C00169.jpg
When did you buy that?. As far as i know Lee (repairgeot) bought it back as he originally built it. I heard it was having a v6 fitted now.
#44: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 205GTi180, Location: DerbyshirePosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:09 am ---- Not updated this for a long time and a lot has changed!!.
The car was running 320 bhp when mapped but had the potential to make a lot more!. With the engine internally standard this was always going to be a test to see how far i could push it. I decided to up the boost and rev limit and it made 374bhp at 12psi (got to love high comp and boost )
Next up is a rear coilover conversion. Many benefits over torsion bars, easy ride height adjustment, options of spring rates, 1-1 damper ratio and save a lot of weight!!
8" wide Revolutions with 225 tyres all round
After 3 more trackdays finally found the limit of the EW10J4S engine
I dropped another standard engine in and restricted the power back down for the Nurburgring and a few more trackdays.
Nurburgring!!
On my last trackday the engine started missing and ran very rough. After checking all electrics etc i did a compression test and found no comp on cyl 1. At first i thought it was the head gasket because i put a camera down the spark plug hole and all looked fine. After pulling the head off i found 1 slightly bent inlet valve??. I can only put that down to high revs and unreliable hydraulic lifters and vvt system.
The recent problem has helped make my decision on which direction i want to go on a new forged engine. Original plans were to build a forged bottom end with standard head as they do flow well. I'm now going down the route of fixed cams (remove vvt) solid lifters, stainless valves etc.
#45: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: 206gt160, Location: BlackburnPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:46 pm ---- Brilliant effort for thia build. Was the car ran on standard gaskets as well as internals? I saw this setup for sale on ebay recently.
#46: Re: 205 GTI180 Supercharged Author: RoweY, Location: MiddlesbroughPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:03 pm ---- Love this build mate wouldn't mind doing some of those mods on my 180 tbh just wouldn't know where to start.
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) It produced a healthy 197 bhp and 155lb/ft, we were over the moon. The smiles soon wore off so its back in the garage for cams, TB's and omex 500. This next setup made 202bhp and 167 lb/ft, not much gain for the money spent but it drove so much better and idled like a standard car.
Hi comp and boost has been used for years. By lowering the compression you need more boost to make it back up!!. Yeah i am running standard internals but good mapping and water/meth injection will keep temps down. Also 9 psi of nice clean linear s/c boost is far more effiecent than hot turbo boost dumped in a 3k 
)
