#1: Urgent Help Needed *update page 2* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:38 am ---- As alot of people will remember I have an issue with my 206 where when the engine is quite warm the engine warning light comes on with a loss power for 2 seconds and then sometimes stalls when the car comes to a halt.
The following has been done to try find out why and cure the problem but with no success
replaced icv
ecu checked for error codes
mobile auto electrician brought in to look at car
throttle body removed and cleaned
icv removed and cleaned
switches/sensors checked and cleaned
new coilpack fitted
picked car up today after all the above was done, after 30mins of driving in the car the warning light came on but the engine did not stall when I had to stop and was still responsive until I got home, where I park at home I have to drive into a turning, stop, reverse back around the corner by 2metres then drive forward so I can park up outside my house and be facing the right way down the road.
When I stopped to reverse, the warning light came on again, the revs dropped and could hear it was struggling to pick up the revs and the engine soon cut out, started it up again without giving it any gas, this time the rev needle was on the 1st indicator above the 0revs until i gave it some gas and it went upto 6000rpm and after a few seconds the revs dropped right down and the engine cut out.
I parked the car and sat there with the engine running, the engine would idle normally, but then less than a minute the engine would die without warning, you can start it again and it leave it, again for under a minute and it would cut out.
The garage that has been looking at the car have said if they replace the throttle switch it might cure it but they can't say for definite. How do you know if the ecu is faulty? Just curious as to why there is no code showing because the mechanic said, if the engine warning light comes on 3 times within a short time it should register a code.
Really need some expertise on this issue because the car is undriveable at the moment and unless the problem is solved the temptation to sell it is growing more and more Last edited by MattyP on Fri May 25, 2012 12:54 pm; edited 3 times in total
#2: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:02 am ---- Intermittent faults are always difficult but I'd be looking for an electrical fault which goes open circuit when the engine gets warmer. A thermal problem, something that may even make the ECU lose power because more often if there's no fault code ever being registered then the ECU may not have been "live" at the time to record it
What could cause that?
Quite a list but
Main battery neg to engine earth
ECU connections
A component shorting to ground at temperature
Fault within ECU
??still a guessing game
Garage should hook up and watch running data as car warms up to spot what happens and work on that otherwise they're just changing stuff and hoping (at your expense). Find the fault and then fix the fault. Even just hooking up a voltmeter to the cigar lighter would give a clue if you have electrical power problems when the fault occurs
#3: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: paulspug, Location: Spalding lincolnshirePosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:52 am ---- i had exactly that with a vectra i once owned.Turned out to be the cam belt worn, which was jumping about and knocking the sensors.
#4: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:01 am ---- I hope not and it shouldn't be as my cambelt was changed that not long ago
#5: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:13 am ---- cam position sensor
#6: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: Gti180Mac, Location: ScotlandPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:24 am ---- Cam position sensor +1
What was the outcome???
#7: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:33 am ----
Gti180Mac wrote:
Cam position sensor +1
What was the outcome???
I can tell the garage it could be cam position sensor
at the moment after the car being in the garage since tuesday its still not sorted
#8: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:01 am ---- Car will drive pretty much normally without the cam sensor plugged in!
#9: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:04 am ----
Edward wrote:
Car will drive pretty much normally without the cam sensor plugged in!
what about crankshaft sensor then?
#10: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:01 am ---- I'd expect a fault code to be logged if there was a problem with either cam or crank sensor. With a crank sensor fault then you'd have to wait until it cooled right down again before it would start and very often doesn't hot start at all
#11: Re: Urgent Help Needed Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:37 am ---- the engine starts 1st time everytime i have had the fault, could it be a temperature sensor?
#12: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:17 pm ---- The garage did say it may be the TPS and have ordered a new 1 @ £123+vat but just found this and it describes some of the faults i've been experiencing
#13: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:04 pm ---- could be; but i would have though you will be able to check that via PP2000; through live data logging you can check the pedal position.
#14: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: spike_202, Location: West midsPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:56 pm ---- Could you not of got a 2nd hand throttle body and tested it before ordering a brand new one?
#15: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:05 pm ---- I haven't paid for anything yet, the garage has had my current tb out of the car and cleaned and it is fine. but having read from the net, symptoms of a faulty TPS it is sounding more and more like that is the problem
#16: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:14 pm ---- What engine is it Matty?
Weird things can happen but again, the ECU should easily pick up a faulty TPS if you have one and flag up a fault code. It would usually put the car in limp mode so it's still driveable rather than let the engine die on you
The engine dying after a minute of running is more like something getting hot and either going short or open circuit. The fact the ECU is not able to record a DTC at the fault condition is an important clue
#17: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:35 pm ---- it's the 2ltr gti engine, the problem starts when i go to accelarate the car will feel jerky as the engine warning light comes on and i can see the rev needle going mental
#18: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:15 am ---- Hi Matty the problem starts when i go to accelerate the car will feel jerky as the engine warning light comes on and i can see the rev needle going mental
Well that's new information and although it's always difficult to diagnose from a distance that does sound more like an accelerator pedal position sensor (APPS ) or possibly throttle position sensor TPS.
What's the difference? APPS senses where you are putting the gas pedal and TPS senses where the throttle in the engine actually is.
Some engines have an APPS at the gas pedal and others have their APPS in the engine bay depending on whether you have throttle cable or not.
Sounds like your garage are homing in on the right place now (the ICV) but personally, I would have back probed the APPS if you have one and TPS and watch the output trace as the engine warms up then you can see the culprit
#19: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:24 am ---- If the idle control valve was at fault it would drive fine. It just wouldn't idle.
#20: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:27 am ---- Hi Edward
By ICV we normally mean inlet control valve ie the engine throttle (or at least I do, ha!) as many cars do not have an idle stepper motor valve these days and idle is controlled directly by the throttle
#21: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:43 am ----
Edward wrote:
If the idle control valve was at fault it would drive fine. It just wouldn't idle.
I don't think it's the idle control valve Paul, since I bought it from you
#22: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:51 am ----
Deckchair5 wrote:
Hi Edward
By ICV we normally mean inlet control valve ie the engine throttle (or at least I do, ha!) as many cars do not have an idle stepper motor valve these days and idle is controlled directly by the throttle
Everyone uses ICV = idle control valve around here.
Electric throttle-intake when the pane is controlled by a stepper etc.
#23: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: Deckchair5, Location: Bath UKPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:49 am ---- Fair enough, there's lots of terms for the same thing and that's where confusions happen.
Throttle valve, butterfly valve, throttle body, inlet control valve are all the same thing. I've never heard it called an electric throttle intake for instance but that still makes sense to me
Fly by wire systems don't tend to have the separate idle control valve so much as it can all be done by the throttle valve so the inlet control valve also controls the idle
#24: Re: Urgent Help Needed *May have found solution* Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:03 am ----
Deckchair5 wrote:
I've never heard it called an electric throttle intake for instance but that still makes sense to me.
I meant to say body, not intake.
Deckchair5 wrote:
Fly by wire systems don't tend to have the separate idle control valve so much as it can all be done by the throttle valve so the inlet control valve also controls the idle
Yep.
#25: Re: Urgent Help Needed *Problem Not Solved* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:06 pm ---- Well small update on the problem, the garage finally fitted the throttle position sensor but the problem STILL hasn't been fixed, the garage said there is inconsistency with the engine stalling, they say the car idles fine when at normal running temp but then will stall, start it again and it will stall after 2 minutes but the next time it will run for much longer before stalling.
Garage are looking into it more but may be tempted to try peugeot to see if the fault registers there or rttam's garage which are quite local and i know the eml will flash en route
#26: Re: Urgent Help Needed *Problem Not Solved* Author: rick-gti, Location: welshpool, mid walesPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:30 am ---- I have just had a guy on the phone who is having a ecu, bsi and transponder off me. Sounds like he is having a similar problem and hes having to change the ecu. I have the ecu bsi and transponder and one fob if you want to try that. I sell them for £35 delivered.
#27: Re: Urgent Help Needed *Problem Not Solved* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:00 am ---- phonecall from the garage, have replaced the icv for a new unit and although car started revving at 3000rpm the stalling when at normal running temp seems to have been cured but will have to wait til tomorrow once the auto electrician has been out to double check everything, so hopefully this wknd i will have the car back
#28: Re: Urgent Help Needed *Problem Not Solved* Author: 20619d, Location: barnstaplePosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:44 am ---- have u tried the fuel pump as boos had same sort trouble with focus put new fuel pump in and was sorted
#29: Re: Urgent Help Needed *Problem Not Solved* Author: MattyP, Location: PlymouthPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:46 pm ---- Garage replaced the icv for a brand new unit which caused the revs to go up to 3000rpm on start up alone i believe from what they have said but when left running the engine will stall after a certain length of time , they don't think it's anything temperature related but still not sure why its cutting out, any ideas or people who have had the problem would be gratefully appreciated
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