#1: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:28 am ---- Hi all,
my 206 has been playing up a bit over the last few months - every now and then, ill drive it, park up, go to drive it again and it wont start, fires but immediately dies... usually, you can leave it an hour and it works perfectly again...
On friday it did the same, drove for 5 mins, parked up, came back 5 mins later and its dead... turns over, fires, dies straight away...
Called the AA, he got it hooked up to the fault reader and it said CAM/Timing advanced - was told to get a new CAM sensor and it should be ok...
Went to Peugeot Saturday morning and spent £50 on a new cam sensor, fitted it.... car started perfectly... took it for a drive and after about 20 minutes the dash started giving me faults, followed by more faults, followed by more faults...
ESP Failure
Something Else failure
Anti pollution failure
Carried on driving and it was fine, parked up.. left it... came back an hour later...
started fine, all faults had gone apart from anti pollution fault.... drove it home and left it.
Sunday, took it for a drive... no faults at all, all is good.... stop to get petrol, fill it up, wont start again! completely dead...
called AA again and got home on the back of a lorry! they didnt have a fault reader so couldnt check what was coming up this time.... but we did notice that the fuel pump wasnt starting?
They spoke to someone in the office who was sure it would be the MAP sensor, apparently that causes all sorts of errors that arent actually valid...
Does that sound right to you lot? anyone else had a similar experience and know where to start?
Thanks
#2: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Seabook, Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:35 am ---- won't be MAP sensor. even you unplug it the engine should still start fine.
have you ever change the timing belt?
#3: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: lmilligan, Location: HertfordshirePosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:51 am ---- has it been modded in any way?
#4: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:53 am ---- Not changed the belt no - its only on 60k miles though - and it runs perfectly when its going - it pulled up to the petrol pump without any problems, and then didnt want to start after that! at first it was firing up and then cutting straight out, but that quickly turned into just turning over, as the fuel stopped flowing...
Im guessing its related to the fuel pump not starting, but would that be some sort of sensor or would it be the fuel pump itself..?
The dash does have the ECU light lit when you put the ignition on...
thanks
#5: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Seabook, Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:04 am ---- well the fuel pump is linked to the immobilizer; did you even try the spare key?
I have done some searching though, and came across another post saying that if you open the door with the key in the ingition, it will beep only if its the correct key? if thats right, it is reading the key correctly...?
(and no, its not modded at all)
Thanks
#7: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:20 am ---- Fuel pumP not priming, garaunteed. When it won't start listen to see if you can hear it priming.
#8: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:31 am ---- if thats the problem - new fuel pump? i'm in work at the moment so cant check, but ill pull the seats up later and see if i can hear anything coming from the fuel pump area...
Thanks
#9: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Shortstuff, Location: GloucesterPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:33 am ---- As above - Check its Priming.
If it is priming but still doesnt start and is bringing up codes then get it on the diagnostics.
Get the code read for the errors.
Another thing is, i believe i am correct in saying the cambelt needs changing every 60k or 6 years which ever comes first.
#10: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:17 am ---- Check the battery connections and especially the wire that runs from negative to the gearbox.
Can't believe the AA patrol didn't have a code reader. 99% of the cars on the road need the codes reading to assist with finding a fault. Thank god I'm not with the AA.
#11: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:50 am ---- If the fuel system is already up to pressure it wont prime again, 206 petrol engines use a returnless fuel delivery system.
Reboot the BSI unit & try starting it again.
If it still wont fire then look at the timing belt.
With all those errors showing it sounds like BSI software / low battery voltage to me.
#12: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:42 am ---- Won't be pump of it works ok when running, but could be something to stop the pump priming.
#13: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:57 am ---- Low battery voltage.... That's possible/likely at the moment, but when it broke down I wouldn't say that - it started up when I left the house without any problems - drove 5 mins down the motorway, stopped... And when it wouldn't start the engine was still turnin over fine for quite a few attempts to start it over the next 3 hours ...! It is pretty dead now though, economy mode is on and turning over on is struggling!!
Can't hear any priming going on... It's pretty much complete silence when the ignition goes on
Pretty sure at the moment the problem is somehow related to fuel/fuel pump.... If its a bad key, would the ecu light stay lit on the dash?
If its a bad key, would the ecu light stay lit on the dash?
The diagnostic light will stay on until the engine is up & running, its normal.
#15: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:50 pm ---- Sorry, I mean if the key fob was the problem, would that cause the ecu light to come on in the first place...?
Just plugged it into a diagnostics reader and it's come up with the following codes:
P1336 - significant combustion misfiring on several cylinders or on an unspecified cylinder
P0011 - variable solenoid valve locked at the upper stop
Anyone have any suggestions based on that?
I've looked them up and it looks like the p0011 relates to vvt? If that solenoid is locked in position, that would explain the cam /timing sensor fault that I had Friday?
P1336 would be coil pack, but I don't think that would make sense when it's intermittent, only when the engine is off... Surely a problem there would be noticeable when the car is running as well?
The only other thing we can think of is immobiliser.... I'm guessing that would fit in with the intermittent starting? Once it's running it wouldn't matter, or would it?
#18: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:36 am ----
chris_87 wrote:
The only other thing we can think of is immobiliser.... I'm guessing that would fit in with the intermittent starting? Once it's running it wouldn't matter, or would it?
Its not the immobiliser.
If it was immobilised you wouldnt have been able to extract those fault codes from the engine ecu
Take the VVT solenoid out & give it a clean.
#19: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:44 am ---- The vvt solenoid... Is that just on the left of the coil pack?
#20: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:57 am ---- Ok, replaced vvt solenoid and still nothing....
Started looking at potential other problems starting with fuel... Unplugged the pipe feeding the fuel rail expecting fuel pouring out...... Nothing, bone dry.... Turned the car over with the pipe still disconnected, still no fuel....
Pulled up the cover under the back seat, removed the pipe coming from the pump/tank... Fuel came out for a second and stopped, tried turning the car over but nothing coming out of the tank.....
Sooooo! I'm guessing that's where the problem lies....
Does the immobiliser stop fuel? I know it was mentioned earlier that we wouldn't get the error codes if it was immobilised.... If that's the case, I'm guessing it's a dodgy fuel pump .....
I did rig up a gravity fed fuel supply straight to the fuel rail, which also failed, guessing it needs the pressure from the pump ?
Cheers
#21: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:01 am ----
chris_87 wrote:
.........
Does the immobiliser stop fuel? .....
Seabook wrote:
well the fuel pump is linked to the immobilizer
#22: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:19 am ----
MrBSI wrote:
chris_87 wrote:
The only other thing we can think of is immobiliser.... I'm guessing that would fit in with the intermittent starting? Once it's running it wouldn't matter, or would it?
Its not the immobiliser.
If it was immobilised you wouldnt have been able to extract those fault codes from the engine ecu
^ but that was also mentioned....
Anyway, if you bypass the fuel pump and just feed the fuel rail manually, would that then bypass the immobiliser? Or does the immobiliser affect more than just the fuel supply?...
#23: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:19 am ---- Think we found the problem!!
Got a multimeter on the fuel pump power supply, ignition on, 10v, turning over 8v... So power was getting to the pump, but no fuel coming out....
Just to confirm that's the only fault we needed a little hint of life... So unclipped the air filter, cap full of petrol in there and tried starting it with the acc pedal down... Life!!
So almost certainly Fuel pump is the only problem! Now to find one and get it fitted... All report back once it's done!
#24: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:54 pm ---- Latest update: new fuel pump in, still no fuel....
Got a multimeter on the wiring again, no power on any key position.. No idea what's happened to that?!
Put a permanent power supply straight to the fuel pump.... Car started straight up and works fine.....
So, the issue is 100% fuel related... The question is, why is the fuel pump not getting any power....
Immobiliser: does it do anything besides cut the fuel?
I've checked all fuses and everything appears ok.... Are there any relays affecting power supply to the fuel?
Anny other ideas?
Thanks
#25: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:00 pm ---- Are the BSI and ECU matched?
Does the ECU say locked or unlocked?
#26: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:17 pm ---- How would I know that... To both questions? It's worked before, and I'm assuming it's all standard, so should be matched?
Cheers
#27: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:23 pm ---- Using your diag tool. Or is it a cheapo one?
#28: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:29 pm ---- Ah right no - we used a snap-on reader, but it was borrowed so I can't check - is it likely to flag up an error? When the aa connected to it this weekend no errors came up... Everything had cleared after changing the vvt solenoid..
Thanks
#29: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:37 pm ---- You need to go into parameter measurements, not fault code reading.
Probably won't be able to do it with the snap-on as it's not good enough usually.
#30: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:40 pm ---- Hmm ok, would the aa have that? What would that actually tell us? Is it likely to help find the cause of no power to the fuel pump?
Thanks
#31: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:41 pm ---- If the ECU is locked then there is a immo fault/short circuit.
If it's unlocked, then your problem lies elsewhere.
Have you checked multifunction relays?
#32: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:51 pm ---- Ok makes sense - does the immobiliser cut anything other than fuel though? So far I Don't think it looks like an immobiliser problem as I've been able to read error codes etc..
Multifunction relays - haven't checked any of those - any idea which ones I should be looking at?
Ok makes sense - does the immobiliser cut anything other than fuel though?
Its a total software lock on the engine ecu to stop the engine running.
#34: Re: 206 GTI 180 Problems - wont start! Author: chris_87, Location: WalesPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:57 pm ---- Ok that's good - it won't be immobiliser then, all I've done at the moment is put a wire from power source to fuel fump and the car runs perfectly - took it for a 5 min drive and it was fine...
So I'm guessing that leaves us with wiring, fuses or relays?
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