#1: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:07 am ---- i have a gti 180 and i have just fot a set of brembo brakes from a 406,
when fitting i removed the old calipers drained the brake fluid out of the system changed the flexi hoses for braided lines fit the new calipers then put the new brake luid in and tried to bleed them by pumping the pedal with someone else tightening and slackening the bleed nipple.
however after doing this i couldn't get any pressure in the brakes at all so i took the car to my local garage who suggested replacing the master cylinder as i might have damaged a seal.
so today after they have fit the new cylinder and once again tried to bleed the brakes there is no pressure, with the car on the lift the pedal goes all the way to the floor the drivers wheel still spins freely but the passenger side is gripping very slightly...
i have read posts about having to use peugeot planet to bleed the brakes for some reason but after phoning 2 seperate peugeot garages they both didn't have a clue what i was going on about...
i'm desperate for any help on this as i'm at a bit of a dead end and i was hoping to go to trax in a couple of weeks(already have tickets bought with 2 sessions of track time)
#2: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Seabook, Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:24 am ---- the reason for pug planet to involve is to open the ABS pump in case any air was trapped inside..
#3: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:29 am ---- ok so have you any idea why there would be no brakes after bleeding them...i have been looking about and found some stuff about needing to change the master cylinder or the servo to a 406 model aswell but then other people say it's not needed...
can anyone shed some light on this?
#4: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Seabook, Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:35 am ---- faulty bleed valve?
#5: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:41 am ---- as in the bleed nipple??
#6: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:28 am ---- Would the clutch need bleeding? They use the same reservior, but i dont know if it affects the brakes. Have you asked the garage to check them? What are the seals like on the brakes?
#7: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: DeadEyePaul, Location: Rugby,WarwickshirePosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:53 am ---- Who did you speak to at the Peugeot garage? Did you ask for the service department? Mine are all pretty clued up.
I had a simliar problem. Thought it was the ABS PUMP but turned out i put the wrong caliper on the incorrect side Last edited by DeadEyePaul on Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
#8: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:57 am ---- The hose connection has to be at the top.
#9: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: DeadEyePaul, Location: Rugby,WarwickshirePosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:00 pm ---- Do you have a ezibleed kit? That forces clean fluid through master cyclinder and all the air comes out the bleed nipples. Do the rears first then the drivers side then passengers
#10: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:31 pm ---- the calipers are on with the bleed nipple to the top which is how the garage said was the correct way to fit them,
it has not been done with the eazibleed thing as i dont have one of them they have only been bled manually
would there be any signs that air had got into the abs pump or not??
does anyone know if i would need to change the master cylinder or the servo to that of a 406 to match the calipers?
#11: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:38 pm ---- Did you completely empty the reservoir when fitting the new brakes?
#12: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:41 pm ---- yeah would that let air into the abs pump
#13: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: rttam, Location: devonPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:56 pm ----
Chris180 wrote:
yeah would that let air into the abs pump
you will have a nightmare bleeeding it if youve let all the fluid drain right out will need a pressure bleeder had a lot of problems bleeding a 307 with abs at work after a brake pipe had broken and it had run out of fluid
#14: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:24 pm ----
Chris180 wrote:
yeah would that let air into the abs pump
Thats your problem then, all the brakes would need bleeding, possibly the abs pump as well.
#15: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:02 pm ---- i have the set up on my gti and with a standard MC its fine little more travel
you can change the master cylinder but unless your tracking it alot there really is no point
as for the air i assume it will be because of the master cylinder being empty as mentioned above
try pressure bleeding shoudl cure it from what i have been told
#16: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: DeadEyePaul, Location: Rugby,WarwickshirePosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:07 pm ---- Ezibleed kit is a pressure bleeder. Connects to the spare wheel (10 bsi) and to the master c and the pressure forces new fluid through the lines
#17: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Seabook, Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:27 pm ----
DeadEyePaul wrote:
Ezibleed kit is a pressure bleeder. Connects to the spare wheel (10 bsi) and to the master c and the pressure forces new fluid through the lines
more likely will need pp as well
#18: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:41 pm ---- So is it a trip to a Peugeot garage then
#19: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:41 pm ---- So is it a trip to a Peugeot garage then
#20: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: jackspaniels, Location: gloucestershirePosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:53 pm ---- Try bleeding it with the ignition on. Make sure the reservoir is full of fluid, if the pump kicks in a lot of fluid will come out the pipe.
It's also possible that the 2nd hand calliper is seized. Or that there is a leak elsewhere, maybe even a rear wheel cylinder.
The bigger 23mm master cylinder does improve pedal travel, nub I don't think that's the problem here.
Does any fluid come out of bleed pipe?
#21: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: troy, Location: llanelliPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:49 am ---- havnt brembos got 2 bleed nipples on them, one is hidden on the back and one on the front, your meant to bleed with the nipples on the back of the calliper first and then bleed the one on the front.
#22: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:26 am ---- it has been bled with the ignition on and off the resevoir is full got a garage to put a pressure bleeder onto it which did bring more air through the pipes but there's still nothing there...they are taking the car to a pug dealer next week so fingers crossed it's sorted by friday as i'm driving down to trax on saturday with 2 lots of track time already paid for
#23: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:27 am ---- oh and as for a 2nd bleed nipple i cant recall anything else but i cant go and check as its in the garage
#24: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: troy, Location: llanelliPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:34 am ---- if theyre brembos they definatly have 2 nipples per calliper
#25: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:18 pm ---- ok got the car back today but it's dark and wet so haven't looked for the 2nd nipple...there is now a bit more pressure in the brakes but there is so much travel on the pedal, i can get the hazards to switch on under heavy braking so there is plenty of stopping power,
does anyone know how to get rid of some of the pedal travel, would a 406 servo and master cylinder achieve this?
#26: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:56 am ---- think for that you need the 406 MC and gti 6 servo
#27: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:31 am ---- think for that you need the 406 MC and gti 6 servo
#28: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:37 am ---- can anyone confirm this??
#29: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:05 pm ---- jonsully has done it on hjis track gt car but yet to hear back from him for pics and parts needed, even on the track you shouldnt need to change it, have you braided hoses yet?, have you been bleeding all 4 nipples on the front calipers??
#30: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Seabook, Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:10 pm ---- macj use stock MC too as far as i remember.
he never have brake pedal travel issue.
#31: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:45 pm ---- he said to me many times its not needed and now i have changed my hoses i agree with him.
#32: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:11 pm ---- Yes all 4 nipples have been bled on the brembos, and yeah I have braided hoses on the front only
#33: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: jackspaniels, Location: gloucestershirePosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:59 pm ---- I used a 23mm master cylinder. Pedal
Travel
Was much less after. But maybe a bit less feel through the pedal.
I found a list of possible donor cars through google. Its a big list.
#34: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Seabook, Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:02 pm ----
Chris180 wrote:
Yes all 4 nipples have been bled on the brembos, and yeah I have braided hoses on the front only
ideally you got to replace all hose in 1 go....
otherwise you are putting more stress on the old hose.
#35: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:10 pm ---- Ok so the 23mm master cylinder is that from a 406...and will that fit with my current servo
#36: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:16 pm ---- no you need the gti6 servo but its not needed even if its a track car, also you need to mess with the reservior for clutch,
#37: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:32 am ---- Ok I''ll try braided hoses on the back and see f that makes a difference
#38: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:55 am ---- Ok I''ll try braided hoses on the back and see f that makes a difference
#39: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:55 pm ---- You need non ABS Peugeot Partner M59 23.8 MC for gti 180. They have 4 output. You need 3 one.
#40: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:55 pm ----
Schumi wrote:
You need non ABS Peugeot Partner M59 23.8 MC for gti 180. They have 4 output. You need 3 one.
What??? Why non abs...and what is the m59 bit...and why a 3 instead of 4 output,
#41: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Steve180, Location: CoventryPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:22 am ---- The M59 is the model type of Partner.
As for the output, last time I checked the GTi 180 has four output MC not 3? 2 on top, 2 on the side, 4? Or at least it was when I went to school?
#42: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: jackspaniels, Location: gloucestershirePosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:13 am ---- You can find a master cylinder that has the right number of ports, the right thread for the pipe unions, fits your servo, and can fit your reservoir.
Just like i did. I went into my local breakers, looked through the tray of cylinders for Peugeot Citroen (and Renault). I found 2 or 3 that would work, picked the best one and fitted it.
#43: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:42 am ---- could you expand on which one you used etc
#44: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:48 pm ----
usher wrote:
could you expand on which one you used etc
Who...me...I used a standard git 180 master cylinder
#45: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Chris180, Location: northumberlandPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:50 pm ----
usher wrote:
could you expand on which one you used etc
Who...me...I used a standard git 180 master cylinder
#46: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: jackspaniels, Location: gloucestershirePosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:38 am ---- www.saxperience.com/fo...60639.html
This is the big list
#47: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:02 pm ---- So you let ALL the fluid drain out?
If you have then i would reccomend taking it to a dealer to correctly bleed the ABS block. As it requires the soleniods inside to be actuated correctly. Load of fun btw
If not, i would putting it down to the bleeding process, yes you can do it your method but i will always stand by a simple bottle and hose making sure no air is dragged back upwards into the caliper
Also the master cylinder idea, yes it would affect the pedal but it would still work at the end, as all your doing is pushing more fluid down rather than before, hence pedal travel but the pedal would STILL WORK
Bleed them correctly, then try
#48: Re: 180 with brembo's problem!! Author: Schumi, Location: Istanbul / TurkeyPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:21 pm ----
Steve180 wrote:
The M59 is the model type of Partner.
As for the output, last time I checked the GTi 180 has four output MC not 3? 2 on top, 2 on the side, 4? Or at least it was when I went to school?
I think you need to check it again.
All Peugeot cars with ABS need 2 output from MC. And ESP equipped cars need and pressure sensor. Nearly all Peugeot with ESP have thats sensor outside of MC. But GTI180 have that sensor on MC. So GTI180 MC have 3 output. 2 for ABS pump 1 for ESP sensor.
After that informations non ABS MC's have 4 output. All ABS MC's in Peugeot have 2 outputs. It doesnt matter ABS or NONABS MC using on ABS car. Just put a blind plug to one of 4 output port and connect 2 cooper house and 1 sensor to other ports
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