#1: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:16 pm ---- Recently got a 206 GTi for using in production car trials. I need to get the suspension raised up as much as possible and will be doing the torsion bars on the rear but need to get the front higher.
Will front springs off a 1.1 or 1.4 fit the Gti? If I can fit these I'll then add some Grayston spring assisters to keep the springs stretched.
Any ideas appreciated.
#2: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Seabook, Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:44 pm ---- it will fit but why do you have to use the spring off a 1.1/1.4?
#3: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:10 pm ---- more importantly it will handle like a bag of sh*t
#4: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:49 pm ---- Handling not an issue as its very low speed skill tests. Also disconnecting the rear ARB.
Can i get away with just a spring change or would you say damper as well.?
#5: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Seabook, Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:56 pm ---- i don't understand what you want to do and why.
#8: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:51 am ---- If it's low speed then why does it matter whether it's low or high?
Also 1.1 springs might end up lower than standard GTi springs because of the extra weight.
#9: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:42 am ---- I understand why this seems a daft idea, but the softer springs from lower spec models create an element of 'bounce' on the front which helps to get the car over some of the humps & hills.
The white AX GT and black Saxo VTR in this clip www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNqEvJNolWE have 1.1 front springs and ARB disconnected. More travel in the rear suspension is required so disconnecting ARB helps here.
Not everybody's cup of tea but intend to do this over winter and then lower it during summer for tarmac autosolos.
#10: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: gaffa786, Location: 2 Places at oncePosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:29 am ----
#11: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:09 am ---- You need to think this through because if you remove the torsion bars altogether, hitting a bump at the right speed and you will smack the bump stops with the trailing arms - unless you have uprated shocks.
The front springs, I can see the logic...
...but I can't see the logic in a FWD going up a hill in the snow.
#12: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: paul_c, Location: UKPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:39 am ---- You guys don't understand, and haven't thought to Google, what "production car trials" are.
Why do you need the GTI, the 1.1 or 1.4 would probably do just as good a job?
#13: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:49 am ----
SinfulDesignCom wrote:
You need to think this through because if you remove the torsion bars altogether, hitting a bump at the right speed and you will smack the bump stops with the trailing arms - unless you have uprated shocks.
You cant remove torsion bars! They support the car - never mind when you hit a bump. Torsion bars also hold the traling arms onto the axle tube.
Uprated dampers dont restrict suspension travel either.
#14: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:23 am ---- I did once drive an AX GT 20 miles down the M62 with only axle and shocks... Bloody good fun. Nearly killed myself doing it, but fun nonetheless
But joking aside... agreeing with Edward here. Removing the torision bars is a one-way ticket to looking a tit
#15: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:39 am ---- you need longer spring with longer travel dampers....not necessarily softer spring as you will bottom out the suspension
instead of removing the rear ARB, you should remove the front one to give you more road contact as yours aren't RWD....
and you need a clutch type diff as well
#16: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: paul_c, Location: UKPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:48 am ----
Seabook wrote:
you need longer spring with longer travel dampers....not necessarily softer spring as you will bottom out the suspension
instead of removing the rear ARB, you should remove the front one to give you more road contact as yours aren't RWD....
and you need a clutch type diff as well
Before you do anything, take a look at the regulations. By modifying the suspension you'll put yourself into a different class, for example, which is why I suggested starting from the 1.1 or 1.4 instead of GTI. Clutch type diff will DEFINITELY put you into a different class too.
#17: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Seabook, Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:06 am ----
paul_c wrote:
Seabook wrote:
you need longer spring with longer travel dampers....not necessarily softer spring as you will bottom out the suspension
instead of removing the rear ARB, you should remove the front one to give you more road contact as yours aren't RWD....
and you need a clutch type diff as well
Before you do anything, take a look at the regulations. By modifying the suspension you'll put yourself into a different class, for example, which is why I suggested starting from the 1.1 or 1.4 instead of GTI. Clutch type diff will DEFINITELY put you into a different class too.
just checked the regulation and i got nothing to suggest
as it only allow wheel/ tyre mod
#18: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:50 pm ---- The reason for the GTi is the amount of torque it produces which is what you need to get the momentum going. Greatest torque figure of all cars of that size. Plus it will be a quick car for tarmac autosolo's in summer. 1.1 or 1.4 will do a decent job but sometimes you need a bit more welly to get you through.
Have done a season in a Saxo 1.4 so know a bit about rules and regs at club level and suspension mods are allowed.
@ Sinful - Never suggested removing torsion bars just disconnecting rear ARB but leaving in place.
Also need some narrower wheels/tyres which cut through mud a bit better. Deeper sidewalls are all important as tyres generally run at 14psi.
#19: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: SinfulDesignCom, Location: Ashford, KentPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:34 pm ---- Apologies Mounty - no idea where I got the torsion bars from - need some sleep I think :S
#20: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:13 pm ---- Located a pair of front suspension legs and coils off a 1.4. Is it pretty straight forward to replace these. Any tips as never done this before.
Also seen some aftermarket springs on Fleabay stating they are suitable or whole model range 1.1 to Gti. How can this be? Thought Gti would have stiffer coils?
#21: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:19 pm ---- Someone has now suggested I use front suspension legs from a 406. Said it would support the weight of the 2.0 engine better than springs from a 1.1/1.4?
406 springs should fit a 206 shouldn't they?
#22: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:37 pm ---- not the 406 that wont work without the dampers as well, the 406 spring coils narrower than 206
is this sport just nailing the car up a hill on loose surfaces
#23: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Seabook, Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:39 am ---- 306 would fit but you will have to modified the anti-roll bar mount.
#24: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:37 pm ----
usher wrote:
not the 406 that wont work without the dampers as well, the 406 spring coils narrower than 206
is this sport just nailing the car up a hill on loose surfaces
It would be the whole leg off a 406, so coil and damper all in 1 unit.
Ha ha, pretty much but a little more skill. Courses are marked out, so as well as nailing it up a hill you have to get between maker posts and perform tight turns on side slopes, all on wet grass and mud. Standard tyres only but can run down to about 12psi to help with grip. Some people drive their road car to the event and compete then drive home.
I was at Brickhill (MK) last Sunday, we came 3rd in class in an AX GT. Type in Brickhill Trial on Youtube and there's a few clips of various events.
#25: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Mounty, Location: United KingdomPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:39 pm ----
Seabook wrote:
306 would fit but you will have to modified the anti-roll bar mount.
Would the mount need modifying on a 406 unit as well?
#26: Re: Unusual suspension question Author: Seabook, Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:46 pm ---- i never see any people use the 406 damper on 206 so i am not sure
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