#1: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:08 pm ---- my cars brakes have just failed on me luckily i was not far from home and not doing any major speed etc.
it has been raining alot so i thought that might be a problem? when i put my foot down the pedal travelled to the floor with little resistance. I did manage to stop but only after nearly Sh**ing myself as i was going down a small hill with cars parked directly in front at the bottom.
ive checked the pads and can see that they havent worn down, there just over a year old maybe newer. there is no sign of brake fluid loss as i checked the bottle within the engine.
another problem i noticed was when i went to put my handbrake on it had no tension it it and clicked alot. the car was fine in the morning when i used it? anybody got any ideas?
on my last MOT there was an advisory i think about the brake lines but i cant find the MOT slip.
any help would be great thanks
Lee
#2: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: Lecktorious, Location: ScotlandPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:50 pm ---- If there is no brake pedal resistabce, you'll probably have a brake fluid leak somewhere.
#3: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:19 pm ---- Il haver a look underneath the car in daylight, there didnt seem to be any missing from the tank though :S would brake fluid loss affect the hand brake though?
#4: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:23 am ---- If u have drums on the rear it sounds like the slave cylinder/s have been leaking...check around the inner of the rear wheels for fluid but if u cant see any there or anywhete else u would be wise to get the drums off and have a closer look...if u have eliminated any fault over the rest of the car the fault should be in the drums.
#5: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:52 am ---- thanks il have a look
Lee
#6: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:12 am ---- I had this and it was the friction material had come away from the brake shoe in the rear drum.
£20 for a new set of shoes and mine was all sorted.
#7: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:52 am ---- ive just tested my brakes again and noticed that when i press the brake pedal in when the car is turned off the pedal eventually tightens up again. But when i turn the engine on it goes slack again. another thing i noticed is that when i press the pedal in when the car is on there is a loud air like noise coming from the passenger footwell. Kinda like pressing on a foot pump?
im stumped i do think there might be air in the brake line? also the hand brake is stumping me some times it engages correctly other times it feels too slack :S
#8: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: broadblaster, Location: south coastPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:00 am ---- sounds to me like the diaphragm in the servo may have split.
#9: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:48 am ---- whats one of them lol, im looking at a trip to the garage aint i?
Lee
#10: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: broadblaster, Location: south coastPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:55 am ---- big round black thing lol lol
not sure if this is the right one for your car but this is what one is compare.ebay.co.uk/lik...amp;crdt=0
inside is a diaphragm which may have split which would make the noise you describe but not 100% sure without seeing the car mate just a internet guess.
but this should not affect your handbrake so bit confused by that as said without seeing the car its very hard to pinpoint on the net
#11: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:32 pm ---- Weve given you the correct advice but uve come back on sayin your stuck again without even checking what you were told and totaly ignoring the advice.....id stop giving him advice if he aint gonna take it guys...just pxssin in the wind giving him any help.
#12: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:25 am ---- Dude seriously I'm being nice I'm no mechanic so I'm asking for advice and of course I've checked I'm not doing like what you said. Also seriously what's the point of moaning anyway? You got problems?
Lee
#13: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:27 am ---- And also, I've been told the back drums by you which ain't correct either , they work fine it's obviously the brake servo as what broadblaster said complys with everything that has gone wrong with the brakes on my car so
#14: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:28 am ---- And also I've done everything people have told me todo as well so why would people be peeing into the wind?
#15: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:30 am ---- And I'm not saying I'm stuck at all I haven't said anything about being stuck just that since checking for leaks etc I noticed the noise mentioned before you've really got on my nerves now ranting like I don't take people's advice
#16: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:53 am ----
nemesislee wrote:
ive just tested my brakes again and noticed that when i press the brake pedal in when the car is turned off the pedal eventually tightens up again. But when i turn the engine on it goes slack again. another thing i noticed is that when i press the pedal in when the car is on there is a loud air like noise coming from the passenger footwell. Kinda like pressing on a foot pump?
Sounds normal.
#17: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:06 am ----
Edward wrote:
nemesislee wrote:
ive just tested my brakes again and noticed that when i press the brake pedal in when the car is turned off the pedal eventually tightens up again. But when i turn the engine on it goes slack again. another thing i noticed is that when i press the pedal in when the car is on there is a loud air like noise coming from the passenger footwell. Kinda like pressing on a foot pump?
Sounds normal..
... for a Peugeot.
#18: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:57 am ---- So youve had the drums off and inspected the slave and shoes etc.???and with the car running you can pump and pump the brake pedal and it doesnt harden up and hold hard.???and your handbrake is inopperative.???and your getting air escaping somewhere near the footwell.???or it sounds like youve got all this going on but havnt actualy had the drums off.???
because it sounds like multiple problems... one major problem...being the abs pump and associated pipe leakage...if the pedal will not firm up when running that can only be a fluid leak...and with a pipe advisory before the leak could be in that area.???
Get the car so you can look under it well and get someone to pump brake pedal and follow the pipe backover until u spot the leak...its gotta be there somewhere...
#19: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:53 pm ---- Dude I'm not a mechanic nor have the tools to do all that stuff and its Christmas too I'm taking it to the garage and asking them about the useful things that people have told me from here so that they know where to start, thanks for both your advice and moaning
#20: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:45 am ---- well garage called front brake pads shot, rear drums shot, cv boot shot, front struts shot, brake cylinder shot, all in all £500 garage bill, £300 if i just want the brakes so that i can get it to a scrap yard
#21: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: 20Drift, Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:22 am ---- Man, that sucks!
Can't you get it on insurance and then get a payout to replace it?
#22: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:23 am ---- have no idea :S going to have to stick it on ye old credit and find a way to get rid of the debt lol.
#23: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:43 am ---- Did they actualy say £300 to get brakes to take it to scrappy???and whats that about insurance???it would be a first for me to hear of insurance covering this fault...even fully comp will use up excess and no claims if they were to agree to it....unless u have it on a warranty you will have to get your finger out mate...they were takin the mick u know...if they said about brakes and scrappy???but unfortunately the £500 part would be about right....
#24: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:21 am ---- yeah they told me £300 to get the brakes to a useable condition it was me who would take it to the scrappy then lol tis all i need lol great start to the year, no all i need is for it to fail the MOT in june. another question should be a real easy one.
when i park my car facing down a hill and it rains i get a rather big puddle in my drivers side footwell. is this something to do with the way that the water drains though the car door? it baffles me as if i face upwards its fine :). no biggy though just shouting for simple ideas other than a cloth
hahah thanks for the suggestions made it easier for the garage to spot the faults and more
#25: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:23 am ---- Ring the scrapyard and ask them to collect it. Nearly all of them have a transporter.
#26: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:27 pm ---- Handbrake cable suddenly having a lot of play and no resistance is either a broken cable or failed auto adjuster in the rear drum. If your rear brakes are drums the auto adjusters on the rear are a bit strange and can suddenly fail.
The garage stated failed brake cylinder. Was that a failed cylinder on a wheel (if so which wheel) or failed master cylinder.
In an earlier post you stated that you know your front pads are relatively new. If you are confident in that and they have done less than 15,000 miles the garage aren't being totally honest about that. If they aren't being honest about that what else are they fibbing about.
You might ask on here if someone nearby will fix it for you:-
buypartsbuy quoted prices for your car parts are:-
Front pads - £17 (full set)
Rear brake shoes - £15 or £23 if you have ABS. (full set)
Rear drums - £30 pair (180mm dia) or £40 pair (203mm dia)
Master cylinder - £53 or £68 depending on type.
H.Brake cable - £15
Rear Cylinder - Between £8 and £13.
Brake fluid - £5
So worst case for parts is about £180. However, tell me what cylinder failed and I think the parts price and repair to acceptable level would be a lot less than above and near £150 including labour and maybe less.
Regards the garage quote and my previous comments. the garage may be quoting for retuning the brakes to "as new" condition and that would be expensive and the garage repair for what they have listed is actually quite cheap. However, a suitable repair with less parts than listed, while not to "as new" condition would probably give perfectly acceptable brakes, perfectly safe and capable of easily meeting MOT standard. Equally they may offer you £100 for the car it and then you see it sold by them for £600 or more after they have spent that £150 or less for the repair.
If you can get it safely back to your house see if anyone here will volunteer to do it for you.
#27: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:53 pm ---- I love this site for technical advice and quidance.
#28: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: Ciucur, Location: NorthamptonPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:36 pm ---- Might be worth a second opinion from another garage?
#29: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:42 pm ---- Scrap will be more like £200 but although there's quite a list most of it is brakes so its not like its all over the car...just concentrate on one corner at a time and u cant go far wrong...if uve got some experience and maybe get hold of a haynes manual...take your time...dont do out daft..and bleed them right at the end...and just work one corner at a time...its actualy nit a difficult job...
there's a place near me that i use where u rent a 4 post ramp and all tools for between ten and fifteen an hour and it makes life much easier and u save in time enuf to warrant paying the tenner an hour and if there's sumthing they dint have they will get it.....my one is called SPANNER ITbut others doing the same are around...have a go at it yourself....the satisfaction alone is worth it..never mind the saving of cash.....
#30: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:57 pm ---- I've had to get it done , it was the master cylinder that had failed , both front discs and pads, both rear drums, both front struts, I'd be annoyed if I have paid over the odds but the garage is well respected by people so I'm hoping I didn't :S
#31: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:43 am ---- Front pads - £17 (full set)
Rear brake shoes - £15 or £23 if you have ABS. (full set)
Rear drums - £30 pair (180mm dia) or £40 pair (203mm dia)
Master cylinder - £53 or £68 depending on type.
Front shocks - £120 pair (£80 if they are cheapies.)
Brake fluid - £5
£270 for above parts (assuming the more expensive ones were needed) + £20 for a few other parts that may have been required. So for a garage £500 with the shocks is not a bad price. Expensive if you can DIY but not bad if you can't.
I suspect that Quickfit, Halfords or Peugeot main dealer would be nearer £,1000.
#32: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:44 pm ---- I've been checking the prices you give me against my bill, I'll post the costs up soon. The worst damage was labour and VaT lol nearly £200 I've gotta get more engine savvy
#33: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:07 pm ---- Remember when you look at the bill that also has to cover cost of buying or renting the premises, purchase of specialist tools and equipment, insurance, heating, business rates etc. etc.
As I stated, for a garage charging £300 for the brakes isn't too bad and £500 for brakes and front struts is reasonable.
I recently stood behind a Focus owner in the queue at Kwikfit and they quoted just over £700 for just front and rear pads and disks. I nearly fell over!
The spannering is easy for those who can do it. The problem is those who can do it often forget how frequently they got it wrong when they were learning or the help they had. If you have a competent mate who will watch over you as you do it then great, if not learning from a Haynes manual isn't really the way forward.
You also need to remember that an experienced mechanic will spot things that are starting to get near end of life while they are doing other jobs. If you start doing the work and relying on just the MOT for safety check that can quickly get expensive.
#34: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:51 am ---- Ha ha I live from the Haynes and your right you don't learn that great from the Haynes lol I've used it to do simple stuff but more complex stuff no chance
#35: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:25 am ---- I want a garage to fix my car not to move in...why should i pay for thete coffee machine thats £2a cup anyway...and why dont they help out like they used to...its the best way to get a good rep. And to get future work if they help u out with sumthing daft rather than turn every little thing into a full cost quoted farty arsed expensive job.???corporate costs are wrong...big time.
#36: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:13 am ---- the garage that i went to (Penkull Service Station) actually do little courses now and then and they have free coffee and tea lol
#37: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:14 am ---- actually on the bill it did say sundries what does that involve?
#38: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:30 am ---- Sundries can cover anything that they can't list individually on the bill. Rags, overall cleaning, latex gloves. A lot of the time it's just a way to bump the bill up a bit.
In the bodyshop sundries used to be masking tape, making paper, gun cleaning solution, sanding papers etc all the stuff that is worth pennies but added together can cost the garage quite a bit over the course of the month. Great way of making up the difference if you need to hit a budget target.
#39: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:05 am ---- Without seeing the whole bill it is difficult to comment and the above replies list most likely items. However, there were a few things that I didn't list (stake nuts on the rear hubs and new springs etc. for the shoes) that may have been needed.
They shouldn't be "sundries" and should be listed but who knows how lazy the person making the bill out is.
If your bill total was as you described (£300 brakes; £500 brakes and struts) it isn't bad.
#40: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:03 am ---- Sorry I'll get the bill typed up on here tonight
#41: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:19 pm ---- nemisislee: if the bill is as you described there isn't much point as the price isn't bad. If it has become significantly inflated from the original sum then I'll have a look.
#42: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:36 pm ---- Thats ok then just want people to know roughly how much a problem like this costs and I guess your right and I think we have reached the end of this chapter now then lol thanks every one, and also thanks to the people who helped me with the costs etc just so that I know I wasn't ripped off :). All in all If your from the stoke area I do recommend Penkull SErvice Station
Lee
#43: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: bezford, Location: darlingtonPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:49 pm ---- nothing is for free................from after dinner mints to gloves at the petrol station...every one pays the piper in the end...
#44: Re: NO BRAKES !!! Author: nemesislee, Location: stokePosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:31 am ---- lol true true
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front brake pads shot, rear drums shot, cv boot shot, front struts shot, brake cylinder shot, all in all £500 garage bill, £300 if i just want the brakes so that i can get it to a scrap yard 
