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pulling left when accelerating
-> Solved 206 Problems
#1: pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:47 am
    ----
tl;dr: http://poll.fm/48ck9

SUMMARY:

PROBLEM:
Quite likely - wishbones (that was my case, first time re-fitted brand new odd ones (passenger side rear mount bush was different than driver's side), that's why this thread is so lengthy)

SYMPTOMS:
Car pulls to the left when accelerating.

DANGER:
In such case, driving straight is compensated by turning steering wheel to the right, so when no longer accelerating, it causes car to throw itself opposite (think going into neutral, changing gears, ...)

Car wanders more when at high speeds - increasing instability Sad

REMEDIES, most-likely first, take one at a time and take time between each:
  • Check tyre pressure, wear and size
  • Replace wishbones if odd/worn (I got brand new but ODD wishbones replaced, that's how this story stretched so long Sad -- one had front bush, the other had balljoint instead..)
  • Check brakes for binding
  • Inspect front and rear suspension components for wear/play
  • Do computerised 4-wheel alignment, obtain printouts
  • Inspect steering wheel column for wear/play
  • Presence of non-factory wheels (now running 15" alloys, will try to swap back to factory 14")
  • Inspect wheel hub for play/wear
  • Thorough inspection of inner steering joint (haven't done myself yet)
  • Inspect shock absorbers for being unevenly worn/gone (about to try myself)
  • Take it to the MOT station (haven't tried myself yet)
  • Differential going (inside gearbox)

    LESS CREDIBLE CAUSES:
  • Driveshaft wear
  • Gearbox mount (under battery)
  • Drop-links/anti-roll bar?
  • Power steering?
  • Engine mounts going?


[END OF SUMMARY]

Hello fellows,

Might not be able to garage her in next couple of weeks, how urgent is this:

A month or so ago, all of a sudden steering wheel went off-centered by ~5minutes to the left.

Since then the car pulls to the left (of course), but mostly noticed when in neutral or low gear/speeds.

However, when applying more torque, and/or at speeds of ~60MPH, the steering wheel straightens itself, and the car drives fine, as long as the foot is on the accelerator!

I feel that wheel "wants" to steer bit to left or right depending if I accelerate or decelerate.

Also, a bit of play is felt in the steering wheel, if that's anyhow related.

Was inspecting brakes on Sunday, swapped front wheels together, same issue - so tyre pressure/offcentered wheels ruled out.

Wheel tracking/alignment was done 12 weeks ago.

Someone suggested an inside tie rod end bearing going, but I guess checking under those gaiters is not a DIY job..

What do you think?


Many cheers,
Last edited by Sim on Sat May 02, 2015 5:24 am; edited 19 times in total
#2: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:30 am
    ----
Your tracking is way - way out.
The fact it was done 12 weeks ago unfortunately means that either it wasn't done properly (99% as usual), and/or it's gone again due to another problem with the setup which wasn't addressed beforehand.
It could also be the plastic damper-piston in the steering rack which takes-up the free-play, which you seem to describe.

Do not continue driving the vehicle as from the way you describe it, you will crash.

It's not just the pulling to the side being the problem. The way it is now it affects center-return of the steering-wheel, and you will have assymetric turning radius so it's not stable in cornering and emergency situations.

Sorry to appear alarmist but better safe than sorry.
Last edited by V9977 on Tue May 07, 2013 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total
#3: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:36 am
    ----
Shocked

Smile Should I first wheel-align, or just take it to the local garage ?

It is cornering perfectly fine, and it's not getting worse since the off-center wheel appeared couple of months ago.

Are things going to get worse with time? Not that I'm not servicing it immediately, I'm just curious.

Car had a crash into a back of another car in Octover 2012 at about ~15MPH. Only front (lights smashed, radiator pushed), no damage to engine or geometry.
Last edited by Sim on Tue May 07, 2013 9:39 am; edited 1 time in total
#4: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:38 am
    ----
This is the thing, I always think of this issue as deadly important (like brakes etc) so definately I would definately take it to the garage and tell them everything. Smile
#5: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:39 am
    ----
sledge wrote:
8O

Smile Should I first wheel-align, or just take it to the local garage ?

It is cornering perfectly fine,.
and it not deteriorating since the off-center wheel appeared.
Are things going to get worse with time? Not that I'm not servicing it immediately, I'm just curious.

No, it isn't. Smile
#6: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:41 am
    ----
Ok, you got me, not 100% fine Wink , I get oversteer sometimes, but only when heavy cornering, e.g. making a u-turn.
Had this since months, never paid too much attention, nor rootcausing to the latest symptoms surely either
#7: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:46 am
    ----
Try this, take a sharpish corner one way and see how 'hard' the steering wheel feels and then do the same the other way.
It is bound to feel and turn slightly differently, so the point of 'loss of control of the vehicle' in some situations is too close for comfort.

Purely as a matter of interest, how much thread is showing on each track-rod end.

Oh, and obviously DO NOT attempt to adjust them yourself - not even a tiny-bit. Wink
#8: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:05 am
    ----
Ok, just tried turning test in the carpark - I couldn't feel the difference. Maybe low speed did not permit to.. (or my brain already compensates the missing bit :))

Track rod ends look as follows (which thread did you have in mind?):
 


 


No, will not fiddle with those myself Smile Cheers so far so much!
#9: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:11 am
    ----
It's not shown on those pics.
It's the one between the locking nut of the track rod arms and the amount of thread showing on the rod-ends as it where. This is just as a matter of interest.

It could be many things contributing to your issue ofcourse, but it will feel and drive a lot nicer if you sort it.
#10: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: kandlbarrett, Location: Swindon PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:49 pm
    ----
With the 206 this could be rear axle not just limited to front so get full 4 wheel alignment done at a reputable location. Tell them to do a full check for wear before any adjustments are made. In fact a good mechanic should be trained to check everything first before adjusting anything and should refuse to set the tracking until a worn component is rectified.

The reason I suggest 4 wheel alignment is that while the rear is not adjustable 4 wheel alignment will check where the rear wheels are pointing and if there is a problem there. Also 4 wheel alignment equipment is more sensitive than the older cheaper front tracking kit that a lot of garages are still using and less susceptible to operator error or corner cutting.

You should get a paper print out from 4 wheel kit so make sure you get your print as that will show you what has been achieved and there is no reason why a patient operator shouldn't get your front toe (the only adjustable setting) spot on.
#11: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:04 pm
    ----
Thank you for tips! My friend mechanic just inspected everything, even drive with me around to convince, because he saw nothing visually.. Apart from worn front tires. He then balanced all 4 wheels -- no major errors found.

He then swapped over front wheels to the back axle, and put nice not worn ones to the front. I think the problem is gone! I'll confirm tomorrow after commute.

I Will tell you done horror stories from wheel tracking/alignment garages tomorrow.. Cheers!
#12: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:52 pm
    ----
How much thread is visible on each of the track-rod ends (in mm) between the locking nut and where the threads stop?
#13: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:01 am
    ----
News after this morning commute: now the car is slightly pulling to the right instead (pulled to left previously).

I was happy to see the steering wheel way more centred, and it does not want to "escape" when accelerating/decelerating/going in neutral.

But this morning on a motorway at about ~60MPH when applied accelerator pedal, car starts to pull to the left significantly more. Worrying bit is that the steering wheel stays in place! So there is a play in the system. (my commute is not on a motorway, I went on it just briefly, so no worries there Smile )

My next stop: full wheel tracking and alignment. Because the mechanic inspected everything yesterday, the visible part of wheel column when car is lifted, inner parts of track rod ends etc - could not see any play or movement or any other suspiciousness Sad

V9977 wrote:
How much thread is visible on each of the track-rod ends (in mm) between the locking nut and where the threads stop?

I will measure that in mm, V9977, but for now here are the images (took them for you yesterday when car was elevated Smile ), I counted about 7 and 7.5 visible thread loops respectivelly:
Driver side:
 

Passenger side:
 
#14: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: harvey, Location: birmingham PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:32 am
    ----
i had the same problems i and replaced both wishbones problem solved
#15: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:58 am
    ----
Yes, mechanic said that driver side wishbone is going, but not majorly, and should not be the main cause of these symptoms.

So firstly we got other question marks ruled out (balancing wheels and swapping them across front/back axles)

I believe my wishbones are not evenly worn (only passenger side wishbone was replaced two months ago)

So now the bet is on replacing them both? With all problems given, I believe you will all say yes.
#16: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:23 am
    ----
Measure in mm and clean it so you get as precise measurement as possible.

Also, with engine off; if you gently wobble the steering-wheel can you feel a 'tooth being loose' and significant free-play?
Try it first centered, then start-engine, get it 90 deg. to the left, switch-off check again and the same to the right, check again.

The trouble is so many factors contribute to getting alignment correct and the car handling nicely and safely as it was designed-to.
As Kandlebarret said, the rear is also critical in the resultant adjustment needed. That's why it's important to get a printout as to what is happening roughly with the rear as well as the front wheels.
#17: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:26 am
    ----
V9977 many thanks on the notes you and others gave. I will run the tests you've asked.

Could you please comment if I should have wishbones sorted first and foremost?
#18: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:35 am
    ----
The steering wheel had significant play until yesterday. After yesterday's wheel balancing and swap, now that the worn tires and on the rear axle, the play is minimal, barely felt even.

I will do the 0-90 deg turn play test in the evening, when get 'round to the car (now I drove only upto the car-sharer's place, he drives on afterwards, -- don't want to risk running my precious Pug too far)
#19: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:01 am
    ----
sledge wrote:
V9977 many thanks on the notes you and others gave. I will run the tests you've asked.

Could you please comment if I should have wishbones sorted first and foremost?

Wishbones always help loads with this issue wether it's geometry, or bushes, or ball joints affecting it.

But I still think it's better to investigate all the things you can first, and bear in-mind many times it's simply not aligned correctly - even if done recently.
#20: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:07 am
    ----
Ok. Just to refresh the timeline:

Alignment done nearly 3 months ago, after replacing -only one- wishbone.

Steering wheel went off-centre 1 month ago.

Since that moment, the stability/maneuverability/reliability of the car has been decreasing until the point beyond comfort, that I started posting here Smile
#21: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ? PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:25 am
    ----
Get Bodie & Doyle to have a look at it.
#22: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:26 am
    ----
Was about to go to TyresDirect ... &)

For Bodie & Doyle google gives out "The Professionals (TV series)", nothing servicing related.. Are you taking a mick sir? Wink
#23: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:40 am
    ----
Robins & Day? Wink I guess that'd be worth investing this time, but I'll give TyresDirect a good whiplashing first, if they misaligned anything back in February
#24: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:12 am
    ----
News from alignment: wishbones haven't been 1:1 matched during replacement of one of them 3months ago. Back to get my warranty in the garage Smile

I did see those wishbones for myself this morning: one has an odd bend shaped from a factory
#25: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:12 am
    ----
Replaced both lower arms this morning, still the same. Pulls way to the left when accelerating, and pulls way to the right when decelerating..

Tracking was off, aligned now, same problem. Robins & Day booked this booked Monday
#26: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:29 am
    ----
1) What is the thread showing on each of the track-rod ends in mm?
2) Have you checked for free-play in the manner described above?
3) Did you get a before/after print-out for all wheels?
#27: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:47 am
    ----
1) Will do in an hour
2) No play, no 'loose tooth'
3) That place doesn't do printout, just front wheel align. Will stab at problem at peugeot dealer, cant find more money to go to ProTires
#28: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:02 am
    ----
I wouldn't think Peugeot dealer would be cheaper than anywhere else.

I really think it wasn't aligned properly to begin-with. Was it the same people/rig that alligned it again as last time?

Idealy you'd go to a place with 4 heads (usually gyroscopic) and get a before / after printout.

Measuring an angle of -0.7 deg. on a wheel is not simple really.

Many places don't say anything but instead give it a turn or two, for fear of the setup changing substancialy and you not being used to it leading to an accident or complaints. A bad one really because this issue is even more 'sneaky' than brakes when it comes to safety.

The car would have left the factory with 13mm of thread showing, plus/minus quarter-turn absolute max.
Since you are getting so much torque-steer, my guess would be excessive & assymetric toe.

'Hope you sort it, and well done for trying to set things right.
#29: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:11 pm
    ----
Driver Side: 13mm
 


Passenger side: ~8mm
 


&)
#30: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:29 pm
    ----
V9977 wrote:
I wouldn't think Peugeot dealer would be cheaper than anywhere else.

Taking bets anyone? Very Happy Every car mechanic/pro/enthusiast I asked gave me a different suspect:
  • wheel tracking - inspected/aligned twice already, in the same garage/people/rig
  • tie rod ends - naked eye/hand dab checks only so far
  • steering wheel column components - same as above
  • driveshafts/gearbox - really?
  • one of the engine mounts going
  • rear axle alignment
Ruled out:
  • only one worn wishbone replaced in February 2013 - replaced both this morning - didn't help the slightest
  • wheel balancing/tire wear - wheels balanced, swapped last Wednesday

Quote::
I really think it wasn't aligned properly to begin-with. Was it the same people/rig that alligned it again as last time?
Yes, as per above.

Quote::
Idealy you'd go to a place with 4 heads (usually gyroscopic) and get a before / after printout.
I trust you V9977, but I also trusted others, and threw in some crazy money already Smile

So can't be dabbing at this any longer (see the list of suspects), and will just give it to peugeot dealer to find a problem on monday (road test is free, £53 for looking deeper in if not obvious after road test)

Quote::
The car would have left the factory with 13mm of thread showing, plus/minus quarter-turn absolute max.
Since you are getting so much torque-steer, my guess would be excessive & assymetric toe.

Looks like you are the closest to win the bet here! O/S 13mm vs 8mm N/S

But, primitively speaking, if I bring it to the 4wheel alignment place, and they bring passenger side back to 13mm, and the wheels will be off - I believe the rootcause is somewhere else (car had frontal bodywork accident October 2012, hitting another car in front at ~15MPH).

Quote::
'Hope you sort it, and well done for trying to set things right.

Cheers to you mate, and all other forum members, friends and fellow mechanics, thanks for being there for me and the car! Hope we'll crack this nut
#31: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:45 pm
    ----
No it's not a matter of bringing it to 13mm both sides and expecting it to be correct. It won't be.
The point is it should be roughly at 13mm with a small deviation (+/- quarter, or half of a turn) otherwise something else is going-on and the person doing it should know this.

On most 206's of age that I've seen it's usually for example 13.5 /14.5, or 14 /13, or 14 /14 etc.
13 /8 is a massive difference and will likely be causing the problems you're experiencing. You might even be able to see the near-side wheel pointing out (with the steering wheel centered on level ground), just by looking at it.

NOTE: This threads 'check' is NOT in any way to be quoted or applied as a measurement even though Haynes refers to it as Peugeot recomendation for initial setting. The car must be aligned on a proper rig by qualified technician according to the required toe angle etc. obviously.

15mph crash, engine mount, gearbox, steering coloumn, highly doubt it.
Surely brakes would have been checked for binding by now.

Personaly I would first take it somewhere else for alignment before changing any more parts. If that's Peugeot, even better.
#32: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 6:06 am
    ----
Thanks again for enlightenment.

I'd surely like to save money, but in your opinion, what is the probability of ProTires (4 wheel computerised alignment) finding (or not finding at all) a rootcause such that they themselves cannot fix (e.g. brakes touching or graver)? If that probability is high enough, then I'd rather just drop it off straight at Peugeot's and hope for the best.

Things are becoming really interesting indeed Smile
#33: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: kandlbarrett, Location: Swindon PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:28 am
    ----
So no play in track rod ends. New wishbones fitted both sides.

I assume that the car is not lowered - is it?

You have not investigated the rear end yet - get a good mechanic to check it out for play - and you have not had 4 wheel alignment done with printout. I suggested both ages ago or have I missed your posting on these suggestions.
#34: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:31 pm
    ----
Ok mates, going here tomorrow: www.fcmwheelalignment.co.uk Smile
#35: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:43 pm
    ----
kandlbarrett wrote:
So no play in track rod ends. New wishbones fitted both sides.

I assume that the car is not lowered - is it?

You have not investigated the rear end yet - get a good mechanic to check it out for play - and you have not had 4 wheel alignment done with printout. I suggested both ages ago or have I missed your posting on these suggestions.

Strongly agree.
The point of checking the rear is that if for any reason it's outside of tolerance limmits, it will be flaged-red on the figures and % will be given which tells the technician that eg. no-matter how spot-on the front is adjusted, the rear is affecting beyond hope.

It is not possible to 'compensate' for rear problems at the front. The front toe setting is standard and that's that.
There is no other adjustment on the 206 (camber/caster, rear etc).

But IF there is an issue at the rear, often it can be spotted/discovered by experienced mechanic before he even puts it on the alignment rig.

By the various descriptions given so far I recon it is not a subtle thing going-on. It's worth discussing and giving as much info as possible to the next garage about the symptom, but without encouraging them to replace major things unless they discover something certain by themselves.

I still think 99% of the time it's simply not tracked right.
#36: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Lecktorious, Location: Scotland PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:21 am
    ----
V9977 wrote:
Strongly agree.
The point of checking the rear is that if for any reason it's outside of tolerance limmits, it will be flaged-red on the figures and % will be given which tells the technician that eg. no-matter how spot-on the front is adjusted, the rear is affecting beyond hope.

It is not possible to 'compensate' for rear problems at the front. The front toe setting is standard and that's that.
There is no other adjustment on the 206 (camber/caster, rear etc).

But IF there is an issue at the rear, often it can be spotted/discovered by experienced mechanic before he even puts it on the alignment rig.
.

It's not always possible to tell if something is wrong with the naked eye, the tolerances are quite fine. I had a bent trailing arm that didn't show up until I had a 4 wheel alignment done and checked the print out.

OP, wouldn't bother wasting any more time or money on trouble shooting. Get the tracking checked and let a mechanic figure it out.
#37: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:48 am
    ----
Lecktorious wrote:
It's not always possible to tell if something is wrong with the naked eye, the tolerances are quite fine. I had a bent trailing arm that didn't show up until I had a 4 wheel alignment done and checked the print out.

OP, wouldn't bother wasting any more time or money on trouble shooting. Get the tracking checked and let a mechanic figure it out.

I think this is exactly what he's been trying to do. I don't believe he wants to do it on his own and it's always better to find what's going-on first, then start replacing things throwing money at it.

Lecktorious wrote:

It's not always possible to tell if something is wrong with the naked eye, the tolerances are quite fine. I had a bent trailing arm that didn't show up until I had a 4 wheel alignment done and checked the print out.OP, wouldn't bother wasting any more time or money on trouble shooting. Get the tracking checked and let a mechanic figure it out.

You ain't kidding. They are fine indeed when it comes to this.
However if you read the post again you'll see why I say this.
#38: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:19 am
    ----
Just dropped off at 4 wheel alignment with printouts. Results in the evening.

Car is not lowered. But has bigger wheels attached from originally a 307 ( over a year ago)

I listened to the front-wheel alignment shop (because I thought they are reputable in advising people with such problems like mine) and changed wishbones.

I know I should've listened to you, just my mind got too many advises from other mechanics I know f2f. Sorry but we are where we are Smile Hope for the best! That its only alognment problem. If not, I understand ths printouts will be indispensable even for Peugeot dealer while they'll be looking into the problem.. Because My local garages and car friends have no clue anymore after numerous visual and hand checks
#39: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:31 am
    ----
sledge wrote:
Just dropped off at 4 wheel alignment with printouts. Results in the evening.

Car is not lowered. But has bigger wheels attached from originally a 307 ( over a year ago)

I listened to the front-wheel alignment shop (because I thought they are reputable in advising people with such problems like mine) and changed wishbones.

I know I should've listened to you, just my mind got too many advises from other mechanics I know f2f. Sorry but we are where we are Smile Hope for the best! That its only alognment problem. If not, I understand ths printouts will be indispensable even for Peugeot dealer while they'll be looking into the problem.. Because My local garages and car friends have no clue anymore after numerous visual and hand checks

I think so and they usually include before & after adjustment values on them.
#40: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:38 am
    ----
Yes, the good guy Lee said there will be before- and after-printouts
Last edited by Sim on Tue May 14, 2013 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
#41: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:41 am
    ----
Not so good news over the phone: the tracking was out 5mm. He test-driven it after adjusting the tracking, problem still there (he doesn't know if symptoms eased off, because he did not test-drive it beforehand)

I will get printouts in the evening, and he will lift the car up on the ramp later in the afternoon to try to find a mechanical problem, but if he finds something, said it's not in his competence to fix those...

So I'm looking into going on garaging car elsewhere as a next step. Risking another (proper, non local) garage around Bristol to save some £££, or just drop it off at Robins&Day ?..
#42: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:41 am
    ----
5mm is masses, see how it goes when you drive it and it'll also be interesting to see the figures ofcourse.
I would take it one step at a time and take time after each step.
Not an over-the-phone job this..
#43: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:49 am
    ----
Ok, V9977, one gear at a time Very Happy

PS: he said the [now rear] tires were really worn out already (one more than another), but that still would not cause such symptoms when accelerating
#44: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:27 pm
    ----
 


They inspected the car, nothing visually loose. Ruled out anything in the rear - if the problem is found, it will be in the front, they said.

Another mechanic said it might be differential inside gearbox starting to wear down. It's only a beginning, as there is no play in either of drive shafts.

So I got advised to research diff wear problems and symptoms.

I was also discouraged from bringing it to the dealer, as they will simply start replacing part by part as per trial-and-error Sad
#45: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:34 pm
    ----
Personally for me, the handling of the car still feels samey - wandering around the road, esp on high speeds, when accelerating and decelerating
#46: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:40 pm
    ----
That 1/2cm is a pretty big difference if you look at the tolerance limits.. Shocked

You had over +5mm when it was supposed to be -1 to -0.2mm.

Rear was found to be spot-on which is great news.
Is it still actually pulling as badly?
Is the steering wheel centered on the straight and/or do you have to apply pressure to keep it straight?

I would definately let it settle a bit now before taking it to anywhere else. Wink
#47: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
    ----
threads now 8mm both. End of journey actually felt better lol, though it was my senses playing up. They also said i should drive until there's play in driveshafts, and not do anything else meanwhile
#48: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: kandlbarrett, Location: Swindon PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:00 pm
    ----
I can't really see anything much wrong with the readings. my only point is that I always use a garage with Hunter or Beissbarth equipment. That measure all the settings in degrees or fractions of a degree. Doing that rather than in mm means you don't need any adjustment to allow for different diameter tyres to that specified by the manufacturer.

Sorry recommending to check what equipment is used after the event but back to your settings and they seem OK. I have certainly seen far worse on cars that feel fine.

One thing (the obvious) no one yet seems to have recommended is to check tyre pressures - ops. I know only 4 or 5 psi makes quite a difference to my daughters and, while she seems oblivious, I sense soft tyres in her car very quickly but I have done quite a bit of rally and track driving so a little tuned to things like that. Sticking with tyres what size wheels (including wheel width) and tyre combination is fitted and what pressure do you run them at?

After that I can only recommend that you drive another 206 (not lowered or messed with) and see how it compares to yours.
Last edited by kandlbarrett on Wed May 15, 2013 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
#49: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:32 pm
    ----
^'Just came on here to ask about the tyres.
I take it the printout spec. agrees with what you have on there surely.

Pressures must have been checked prior to allignment by the tech every time though.
What psi are you running?

I still think something is up with it simply because I've never - ever come accross only 8mm of thread showing on those track-rod ends.
However, I would fully accept that it's possible if and when the car drives fine with that adjustment.
In the mean-time, as far as I'm concerned pulling/drifting=bad.
#50: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: kandlbarrett, Location: Swindon PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:10 pm
    ----
Another thought - as well as my question about pressures and size have you checked that the tyres are all the same size. It wouldn't be the first time!
#51: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:51 pm
    ----
Tyre size is wrongly reported in the printout (probably read off factory fitted according to the licence plate).

Current tyres originally belonged to a 307 (a year ago) and they are Michelin "Energy saver" 185/65 R15 : 16in alloy diameter, 23inch - the whole road wheel - all 4 wheels same size. They are approx 7in thick

Pressure in PSI:
front N/S 30.5 O/S 30.5
rear N/S 30 O/S 30

When roadwheels were fitted a year ago, the O/S rear wheel used to touch the dirt panel on bumps and corners, which was slightly prodded by the fuel filling cap hose going on the other side of it. But overtime the noise disappeared - plastics moulded itselves fine, tyre didn't wear

As to sit in another 206 - I bet that one will feel the same as my one felt month ago when all things were dandy.

More info - after tomorrow's proper commute test drive
#52: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:05 am
    ----
No change Sad I even changed gears agressively whilst accelerating, car made quite a wobble!

More forensics: if I hold the wheel strong, and keep it centred steady, the car still pulls to the side, I feel fighting the wheel a bit, on deceleration steering relaxes and then swaps over to the other side.

I might check for brakes binding, had brake dust all over alloys on both front wheels over past two months
#53: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:58 am
    ----
sledge wrote:
No change Sad I even changed gears agressively whilst accelerating, car made quite a wobble!

More forensics: if I hold the wheel strong, and keep it centred steady, the car still pulls to the side, I feel fighting the wheel a bit, on deceleration steering relaxes and then swaps over to the other side.
I might check for brakes binding, had brake dust all over alloys on both front wheels over past two months

Definately check brakes.

Do the following when you get some time:

On a (preferably) slightly downard slope road take a right-angle turn at slow speed.
Once you're in it, lightly release your grip on the steering wheel so that it 'feeds itslef' back to centre (centre-return). - Be aware of other traffic.

Does it:
1) Return smoothly and naturaly as if the car tucks into the turn and is obeying the road so to speak?
2) Violently straightens itself to the point you have to grab it again and manually correct it?
3) Hardly returns at all and you have to 'guide' the steering wheel at all times to straighten up again?

Then do the same on a left-turn, does it feel preety much the same?
It will take a few goes to get a feeling of it.

If you have a look at the wheels on a supermarket trolley, the way they straighten themselves according which way you push, it works in a simillar way.

I think this is a good thread and would be really interested on other people's knowledge and experience as well.
The only thing I like in (most) French cars is how they corner. Smile
#54: Re: pulling left when in neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:46 am
    ----
Off the top of my head, steering wheel centre-return has never been 100% smooth: the bit I recall is that it sometimes stops (or hesitates and then carries on) returning in the middle of its return process

One fine day soon I will swap over back to 14" wheels (there's another 206 in our household, simple 5-door LX 1.9 Y-plate, but rarely available for all-day surgeries Very Happy )
#55: Re: pulling to sides when accelerating/decelerating/neutral Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfield PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:56 am
    ----
What about taking it for an MOT? if there's owt drastic going on it will certainly be found.
#56: Re: pulling to sides when accelerating/decelerating/neutral Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:59 am
    ----
Yup, had that advise from "we-only-align-front-wheels-and-they-still-show-up-5mm-off-during-4wheel-align-after-and-we-recommend-customers-to-change-odd-looking-wishbones" place. They said that putting it on the rolling road might be easier to localise the problem.

MOT due Jan 2014.. This would be a premature one Smile
#57: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: kandlbarrett, Location: Swindon PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:07 pm
    ----
OK deep thinking cap on. I think V9977 is pointing you towards steering rack and that is possible but I think you also need to think about bent shock absorber or similar?

You say it suddenly went out. Did that coincide with you hitting a curb quite hard or something similar. Did it coincide with a mate borrowing your car? The amount that the 4 wheel centre corrected is huge! Was that made that bad by hitting something or was it made that bad by the 2 wheel centre?

To be honest you have checked everything - or everything I can think of now except shocks or steering rack. After my suggestion above (damaged shocks) I am now a little stumped.

You do need to understand that when front wheel drive cars accelerate the front wheels do naturally turn in slightly and when you decelerate they turn outwards slightly. So the effect you have is that when accelerating either the RH wheel is turning in more than it should or the LH wheel is being prevented from turning in the same as the right.
#58: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:13 pm
    ----
Yes, my car seems to be a patient with a long illness history Sad

Shock-absorbers story:

Back in ~November 2012 I got told that my driver side front shock absorber has liquid traces around it.

But since I bought the car in March 2012, it had a hard suspension, and I thought it's normal for such a little runner (and it never gotten worse, at least not noticeably)
All the more, I got erroneously told, that absorbers go when they start bouncing.

Then again in February 2013 another mechanic said to check them/replace them, but then his boss said - "Let him drive, when liquid completely gets out, his suspension will start bouncing" - so we put this under the carpet...

That same mechanic did a test drive recently to experience the "pulling" in his own hands - he confirmed and did not mention any oddities for absorbers being gone (we did go over some potholes), so I will research on how to do a proper test on that one
#59: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: HowlingMadMurdock, Location: Ashington, Northumberland PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:30 pm
    ----
If one of your shocks is leaking fluid and the other isn't then they work differently, especially when accelerating or braking. They may sit at the same height when stood still but when you put load through them it's a different story.

If you bounce the suspension hard on each wing does one side feel stiffer than the other? Any difference you notice there will be multiplied on the road.
#60: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:58 pm
    ----
kandlbarrett wrote:
The amount that the 4 wheel centre corrected is huge! Was that made that bad by hitting something or was it made that bad by the 2 wheel centre?

I went through 2wheel centre on Saturday after replacing wishbones. They said alignment was out, and they adjusted the front spot on.

The Monday after (two days later!) I went to 4wheel centre. No bumps/curbs/stones hit the car in between the two days (mostly stationary anyway)

I thought that 4wheel align is totaly different maths, and to have all 4 aligned spot-on, front was supposed to be moved even more, or smthng

HowlingMadMurdock wrote:
If you bounce the suspension hard on each wing does one side feel stiffer than the other?

Cheers mate, I'll check that straight tomorrow morning
#61: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:13 pm
    ----
sledge wrote:
kandlbarrett wrote:
The amount that the 4 wheel centre corrected is huge! Was that made that bad by hitting something or was it made that bad by the 2 wheel centre?

I went through 2wheel centre on Saturday after replacing wishbones. They said alignment was out, and they adjusted the front spot on.

The Monday after (two days later!) I went to 4wheel centre. No bumps/curbs/stones hit the car in between the two days (mostly stationary anyway)

I thought that 4wheel align is totaly different maths, and to have all 4 aligned spot-on, front was supposed to be moved even more, or smthng

HowlingMadMurdock wrote:
If you bounce the suspension hard on each wing does one side feel stiffer than the other?

Cheers mate, I'll check that straight tomorrow morning

And check the brakes for binding if you can raise it and the hubs for play too. Also, take a good look at the wishbone bushes. They should be brand-new as would be the wishbones themselves.

Actually I wasn't thinking steering rack (though it could theoreticaly be).
'Be worth trying the other standard wheels since you have them for testing purposes.

How does the other 206 feel compared to this?
#62: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:29 pm
    ----
Will do binding tests over the weekend, (though today I heard both-sides front brakes squeaking. They used to squeak only on drivers side until this warm morning (remedy from that tried in this thread).
-- just a wild guess: if they're now both squeaking, means they are both binding equally(?)
Last time I rolled the wheel by hand on a jacked up car was a week ago - all smooth and sound, free rolling. Probably need to test brakes for binding only when they are hot after a long journey. But my car pulls to the left already during first hundred yards of the cold morning. So brake binding might as well be ruling itself out.

Wheels were wobbled left to right/up and down by mechanics. So I think the hub plays can be pretty much ruled out (that being loose bearing or lock nut thread sockets)

So you were not thinking that something might be wrong with centre-return mechanism? (affecting further that is)

Other 206 feels way better - it drives straight under acceleration. Given the fact that that 206 is pretty much end-of-life on nearly all other levels.. (PS: not me the driver lol :))
#63: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:16 am
    ----
There is no 'centre-return mechanism' as such.
It results directly and only from the toe & caster, and the specific geometry of your car.

Absolutely check your rear-brake compensator valve (with the spring on it) found near the rear off-side
wheel arch. Make sure it is neither seized or completely loose.

Squeaking does not by any means suggest binding necessarily.
You would do well to try the other wheels since you have them, just for testing purposes.
#64: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:50 am
    ----
4-wheel alignment on the 206 means you get to know what is happening at the rear as well.
The single available adjustment at the front (toe) is standard and there is no way of 'compensating' for issues at the rear. Yours look super at the rear anyways.
#65: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:52 am
    ----
That's where my question came from. 2wheel alignment said it's spot-on. 4wheel said rear was fine, but front was 5mm off...
#66: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:15 am
    ----
For a laugh I should probably go back to the 2wheel centre and stick the printout into their teeth Smile

Checked the shock absorbers this morning - both feel fine. The drivers side with liquid traces is just a teeny bit harder (by the skin of the teeth, or just my imagination tbh)

Also, alloys were not hot after 12mile stop-and-run trip on the ringroad, so can't blame front brakes for binding it seems. Will check rears though
#67: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:19 am
    ----
sledge wrote:
For a laugh I should probably go back to the 2wheel centre and stick the printout into their teeth Smile

No, I think they did all the work in good faith and this issue is very very common when it comes to measurement / adjustment like this.
#68: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:30 am
    ----
Oh ok, that's the answer I was looking for Embarassed
#69: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:47 am
    ----
Researched the internet more - so many cases! Every time different causes.

It's a dreadful issue - even on this forum, costing money, time, nerves and what not..

Please those of you who had this sorted - share it via this poll: http://poll.fm/48ck9

If you won't find what caused your problem, add it to the "Other" option.

Poll as many times as you had cars/cases sorted in your life.

I will share this message in other forums too, so we have clearer idea what to check first, and leave for last of what has rarely ever occurred.

It is only for 206s, as other cars will be more prone to other causes.
#70: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: HowlingMadMurdock, Location: Ashington, Northumberland PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:33 pm
    ----
I would get a couple of mates independently to do the bump test on the shocks and don't tell them which one you think is the harder one. If they both say the same thing without knowing the other 2 results then 3 out of 3 is pretty fair odds the leaking shock will be having some kind of effect as the car won't be balanced evenly under load.

How much of a contributing effect it has is something I wouldn't know but unless the car's destined for the oval Indy 500 circuit I would say the suspension on each side has to work indentically
#71: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:03 am
    ----
I keep reading, in most cases wishbone bushes are the problem..

Now if I'm really unlucky: the new wishbones are both from same factory, but one has bushes, the other has ball joints (some new edition - and their supplier brought two different, hope with best intentions that they won't differ). Car pulls same left - can this be now down to uneven hold-force bushes vs balljoints?
#72: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:55 am
    ----
sledge wrote:
I keep reading, in most cases wishbone bushes are the problem..

Now if I'm really unlucky: the new wishbones are both from same factory, but one has bushes, the other has ball joints (some new edition - and their supplier brought two different, hope with best intentions that they won't differ). Car pulls same left - can this be now down to uneven hold-force bushes vs balljoints?

I know what you mean I've had this before.
You would have thought that when putting two new wishbones in there it would be identical ones. I doubt very much it makes this problem though, esp. as they're new.

I think it's really worth trying the other set of wheels as it's free.
It won't magicaly fix everything and be dead-on but will be interesting to see what happens.
#73: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: HowlingMadMurdock, Location: Ashington, Northumberland PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:18 am
    ----
Yeah V is right, try the wheels and either prove or eliminate that side of the problem. It sounds like you're getting close to solving this by the process of elimination.
#74: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:10 pm
    ----
Swapped front tires with 14", same problem
#75: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: HowlingMadMurdock, Location: Ashington, Northumberland PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:40 pm
    ----
I'm no expert but I suspect a difference between shocks here
#76: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:45 pm
    ----
sledge wrote:
Swapped front tires with 14", same problem

Take it to Peugeot.
#77: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:33 pm
    ----
Dropped off at Peugeot's this morning, got the report now:

No wear or play from overall inspection anywhere.
  • Prime suspect: lower arms not being identical (bushes vs. ball-joints; also 15" alloys might amplify the pulling - then why 14" also cause same pull?)
  • Secondary suspect is not 100% clear: they asked about the car's past accidents, so I believe some or all cases below introduced a delay-action bomb (I enlist the most-relevant first, I haven't told all of them to Peugeot yet, tomorrow morning meeting the mechanic again, for final round of talks):
    • accident 9 months ago (15MPH crash into the back of another vehicle)
    • one more accident some time in the past, proofs:
      • body filler found next to N/S headlight chassis, when refitting new panels after accident 9 months ago
      • buckled N/S wheel hub, caused this
    • only one (N/S) lower-arm replaced 4 months ago

Plan of action:
  • replace lower arms again, this time with identical joints
  • go nuts (scrap the car) if that won't help
#78: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:16 pm
    ----
I have to say you have been systematic and very responsible in the way you've dealt with this and by putting all the info on this thread. No-doubt it will be a usefull thing for others to look-at in the future.

I have a feeling you will get to the bottom of this soon, even though obviously quite a bit must have been spent trying to sort it.

At this point and for what it's worth, I would say that different bushes (if OK) would not imho cause the pulling but; if the geometry is different (perfectly possible in this case) it certainly can.
Bear in-mind they will track it too and that has got to be a good thing.

The accidents as described would not ordinarily bend the chassis beyond repair (jig) or to cause such a profound thing. It will be interesting to see.
#79: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:54 pm
    ----
Ball-joints and rubber bushes might differ in friction and flexibility, which is felt only under heavy forces (acceleration)

Even if accidents happened in the past, can the chassis warp/jig become big only months after them?
#80: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:23 pm
    ----
sledge wrote:
Ball-joints and rubber bushes might differ in friction and flexibility, which is felt only under heavy forces (acceleration)

Even if accidents happened in the past, can the chassis warp/jig become big only months after them?

I wouldn't think so. If it's warped it's warped. I can't see how it could get that bad so long after the event.

I have more hopes in them tracking it than anyone else. See what comes out of it.

Keep the other wishbones obviously, and also lay them on top of each-other to compare geometry just for the hell of it.
#81: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ? PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:37 pm
    ----
V9977 wrote:
sledge wrote:
Swapped front tires with 14", same problem

Take it to Peugeot.

MrBSI wrote:
Get Bodie & Doyle to have a look at it.

I said that back on the 9th of May, page 2 of this thread Laughing
#82: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:41 pm
    ----
What do you mean by "they will track it too" ?

By the sounds of it, an hour-worth of investigation has yielded my info post above. If lower arms don't fix it, it will remain the head scratcher even for a Peugeot dealer..
#83: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:41 pm
    ----
MrBSI wrote:
V9977 wrote:
sledge wrote:
Swapped front tires with 14", same problem

Take it to Peugeot.

MrBSI wrote:
Get Bodie & Doyle to have a look at it.

I said that back on the 9th of May, page 2 of this thread Laughing

So is Bodie & Doyle a Peugeot dealer's or are you saying I'm getting preferencial treatment?
#84: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ? PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:42 pm
    ----
sledge wrote:
If lower arms don't fix it, it will remain the head scratcher even for a Peugeot dealer..

What wishbones have you been fitting?

Genuine Peugeot parts OR w**ky aftermarket crap from a factor?
#85: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:45 pm
    ----
sledge wrote:
What do you mean by "they will track it too" ?

By the sounds of it, an hour-worth of investigation has yielded my info post above. If lower arms don't fix it, it will remain the head scratcher even for a Peugeot dealer..

I can't imagine anyone paying for a new pair of wishbones and not tracking (alignment) it before giving to the customer.

Re-tracking is pretty much standard after replacing wishbones, let-alone when you're in this crisis.

That's what I mean.
#86: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:50 pm
    ----
MrBSI wrote:
sledge wrote:
If lower arms don't fix it, it will remain the head scratcher even for a Peugeot dealer..

What wishbones have you been fitting?

Genuine Peugeot parts OR w**ky aftermarket crap from a factor?

The OR ones I think.
#87: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ? PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:56 pm
    ----
A genuine wishbone is just under £122 including the VAT, that is a BARGAIN Cool
#88: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:59 pm
    ----
MrBSI wrote:

What wishbones have you been fitting?
Genuine Peugeot parts OR w**ky aftermarket crap from a factor?

Quoting Peugeot mechanic Dave: "The pattern parts are in pristine condition"

The reason I left R&D for last is that I haven't got a pocket full of money

Same reason I am reluctant to leave the car for them to change lower arms, as it will cost me another arm (pardon the pun) and the leg.

I'd rather bring it back to the garage, whiplash them for entrusting their supplier's choice of providing two ordered wishbones, one with ball joints the other with bushes.. and have them replacing this time with twin identical wishbones free of charge (if it fixes the problem that is). and then bring the car to 2wheel (better 4wheel) tracking afterwards by myself -- should be way cheaper yet enough reliable to eliminate risk
#89: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:10 pm
    ----
sledge wrote:
MrBSI wrote:

What wishbones have you been fitting?
Genuine Peugeot parts OR w**ky aftermarket crap from a factor?

Quoting Peugeot mechanic Dave: "The pattern parts are in pristine condition"

The reason I left R&D for last is that I haven't got a pocket full of money

Same reason I am reluctant to leave the car for them to change lower arms, as it will cost me another arm (pardon the pun) and the leg.

I'd rather bring it back to the garage, whiplash them for entrusting their supplier's choice of providing two ordered wishbones, one with ball joints the other with bushes.. and have them replacing this time with twin identical wishbones free of charge (if it fixes the problem that is). and then bring the car to 2wheel (better 4wheel) tracking afterwards by myself -- should be way cheaper yet enough reliable to eliminate risk

What Mr.BSI is saying is that genuine parts (esp. things like wishbones) can end-up saving loads of money in the end because:

1) They do the job properly whereas often aftermarket parts don't.
2) They last a lot longer and protect the rest of the vehicle's parts from stress.
3) You pay less for labour time which has to be done again and again trying to solve issues like this.

I also think this because I have found-out the hard way, paying arms legs and everything in between (the legs) on various french cars over the years. Smile
#90: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ? PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:16 pm
    ----
I remember way back to 2005 when my 206 had new wishbones fitted under the 3 year Peugeot manufacture's warranty, those same wishbones are still on the car now & still working perfectly fine all those years & 80K+ miles later Laughing
#91: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:27 pm
    ----
Will take your to-the-point advises into consideration, cheers chaps.

I would do as much as I can for this car to live long and prosper, but everything bounces back into finances. It's a 13 y.o. maid, so weighing the odds (+as much as it'd costed me already), we might be facing a sale Sad

How I feel about it emotionally bound (and how good the car is/drives/behaves otherwise) and what choice I should make, -- now that's already a topic for the "Talk" subforum Wink
#92: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:30 pm
    ----
It will be sorted within budget, you'll see.
#93: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:40 pm
    ----
So what exactly are you planning to do? I'm a bit confused.
Same garage/different garage, genuine/aftermarket, or currently thinking about things?
#94: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:03 am
    ----
will have final chat at Peugeot in two hours, see prices. If above £200, I'll first go back to my mechanic who assured my fitting bushes and ball joins wont make impact. If he agrees to re-replace arms free of charge (if that fixes the problem), will go for that. When those new ][dearer] lower arms go wrong again in the future, will fit genuine Peugeot ones (agreed on a bit of discount).

For hour investigation got charged ~£80, got all suspects re-confirmed, and they've cleaned the car's exterior! :}
Last edited by Sim on Wed May 22, 2013 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
#95: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:05 pm
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Case is closed: got lower arms re-replaced today, this time both identical, car drives as straight as hell under even roaring accelerations..

The master mechanic of that garage was present this evening, replaced all free of charge, as it was plainly my mechanic's error to go ahead with two non-identical wishbones.

So my story is just a sequence of unfortunate events, with very low probability of symptoms persisting across lower-arm replacements.. Sad

Now the car drives mint! It's me who's pulling to the right now instead from the learnt motoric compensation with steering Very Happy but that's fading away already

Thank you all for patience and advises, especially V9977, HowlingMadMurdock, kandlbarrett and MrBSI, a lesson learned, big time...

A nice pint of lager for you all!
#96: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: kandlbarrett, Location: Swindon PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:13 pm
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Good news. What a fraught experience and lesson for everyone.
#97: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:22 pm
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Super news.

Excellent updates on this thread as it progressed, well done Mr. Sledge.
#98: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfield PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:27 pm
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Happy for you mate, probably feels like the worlds been taken off your shoulders.
#99: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:44 pm
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Yes, now quickly.. measure the threads.
#100: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:10 am
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I will, but I think they've remaind 8mm both. It hasn't been tracked (though sits on the road now spot-on straight! an orgasm to drive Twisted Evil ) . I took it to my good-old local garage , to the same mechanic who fitted two differing wishbones as week ago. So they did it free of charge this time.

BTW FYI: another 206 at home (the 14" roadwheels I've swapped), has 10mm thread both

Cheers all! The world is truly off my shoulders now..
#101: Re: [SOLVED] pulling left when accelerating Author: kandlbarrett, Location: Swindon PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:46 am
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I know it drives straigh but that doesn't mean the tracking is correct. Find a garage with either Huinter or Biessbarth alignment equipment and have the 4 wheel alignment checked.

You might think that is a waste of time now but only a fraction of a degree out (one tenth of 1 degree is enough) can destroy your tyres in less than 5,000 miles. So for less than the cost of one tyre you can have piece of mind.

Reminder: while only front is adjustable make sure you use a four wheel centre with the brand of alignment equipment I have suggested.
#102: Re: [SOLVED] pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:57 am
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Ok, the ones I've gone to had Visualiner equipment: www.fcmwheelalignment.co.uk/

Cheers for the tip!
#103: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:22 am
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sledge wrote:
I will, but I think they've remaind 8mm both. It hasn't been tracked (though sits on the road now spot-on straight! an orgasm to drive )

IF it hasn't been tracked after the repair (check by threads), it's definately worth letting it settle for 200 miles or so, then take it to a decent place and stay with the car while they make the adjustment. No good just dropping it off and then turning-up being told whatever. Take thread measurements before and after the adjustment as a matter of interest, as well as the results sheet by the rig.
#104: Re: pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:37 pm
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kandlbarrett wrote:
I know it drives straight but that doesn't mean the tracking is correct. Find a garage with either Huinter or Biessbarth alignment equipment and have the 4 wheel alignment checked.

You might think that is a waste of time now but only a fraction of a degree out (one tenth of 1 degree is enough) can destroy your tyres in less than 5,000 miles. So for less than the cost of one tyre you can have piece of mind.

Reminder: while only front is adjustable make sure you use a four wheel centre with the brand of alignment equipment I have suggested.

+1

And rememeber: It's a Pug, so it ain't over 'till it's over.
#105: Re: [SUMMARISED] pulling left when accelerating Author: V9977, Location: Athens, Greece PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:45 am
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sledge wrote:
I will, but I think they've remaind 8mm both. It hasn't been tracked (though sits on the road now spot-on straight!..

Any update on this?
#106: Re: pulling left when accelerating Author: Sim, Location: West Country PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:54 am
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Hello, been on holiday Smile

You are right - it ain't over 'till it's over Smile

As soon as the new (this time identical!) wishbones were fitted, I noticed (should I start a new thread for this?):

0) done ~240 miles since the fix, car drives perfect, steering wheel straight, alignment goes spot-on forward (when let go of wheel on a straight road). I haven't done any wheel alignments yet since the fix

1) Front O/S tyre rubber touching underwing plastic, when braking while turning slightly left on higher speeds (e.g. when starting the forward side-parking, or stopping in front of the red light and changing lanes at the same time)

2) Front O/S tyre squeeks with the road when making a fast right turn (sounds like in the car-action movies Smile I feel it might as well oversteer a bit (but might be my imagination/road surface)

3) Knocking sensation (and bit of sound) on brake pedal when braking harshly - this happened two/three times during first week of driving, then went away (or I couldn't provoke it)


Most of people would ignore those symptoms above and carry on driving... Smile just saying Smile (basically, my local garage has coloured me "too fussy" already Smile )

Cheers,
#107: Re: pulling left when accelerating Author: eddie206,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:45 pm
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Your descriptions are too contradictory and unclear man.try and stick to logic/basics and list each problem seperately...its just difficult to understand when you say something happens at higher speeds then while parking???which is it??list seperately dude.
#108: Re: pulling left when accelerating Author: tonyholbury,  PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:59 am
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My wifes ZX steered like a boat, on acceloration it swerved to the right, foot off the throttle it swerved to the left, in top gear at a neutral throttle the damn thing 'tramlined' over every dip in the road.
It turned out the front nearside 'top hat bushes' on the control arm were totally shagged, they fell apart when I took them off, they allowed the nearside wheel to creep forwards under heavy throttle and creep back when the throttle lifted off.
The 206 has different fixing rubbers on its control arms BUT if the offside one is sloppy it will give the symptoms you describe, allowing the offside wheel to turn in on throttle and turn out on deceloration.
My 306 (very similar to the zx setup) gets its arms done every second balljoint change and the steering and handling improved immensly every time.
Another quirk was that the steering wheel always twitched IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION to the steer, that is what had me flummoxed until I sat down and thought about what was happening very carefully then took a look to confirm my theory.
-> Solved 206 Problems


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