#1: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:17 pm ---- Hi,
I would be really appreciative of any assistance you can give me to help diagnose a problem with my car.
It is a 206 1.6 GLX (1999) and has only done 58000 miles. I bought it 2 months ago. I am a community nurse without much cash and I need it to run relatively reliably!
The car starts first turn of the key when cold, but the problem lies when I have been to one patient and come back to the car to move on to the next patient - perhaps within an hour and a half of the previous use. The car won't then start. I have had it into a garage but as the car would have sat cold until they were able to look at it, it started fine and nothing showed on their dagnosing computer.
In desperation last week, and when on route to a dying patient, I called the AA. Just as he turned up it started (as it had cooled down I guess) but he kindly still had a look. Another symptom at the time was the engine suddenly revved by itself. The AA man reckoned this and the starting were connected and that the air inlet sensor needed replacing, in fact showed me a get round that mostly works until I got it replaced by moving it down its connection and then back again.
I got this part replaced the same afternoon (£42 for the part only, fitted by the garage in 2 minutes so they didn't charge me for fitting it), no more revving problem! I thought it was all sorted but unfortunately the warm start problem remains.
I would really appreciate any suggestions as to what is wrong. Money is very tight so even if I end up taking it to the garage with a good idea of what is wrong it would be a huge help as their attitude was well it will take hours of labour to diagnose whether its this or that and the car just isn't worth it. I see their point but I need it to start and once it's running it goes great! Until then I will have to lift the bonnet after every patient visit, wiggle the sensor and replace the bonnet to start! Not a great situation!
Thanks in advance,
Kay
#2: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:23 pm ---- Common issues causing warm start problems are the 3 following sensors :
Coolant temperature
Crank position
cam position
I had this issue, swapped the sensors in the above order, was only when I installed a new cam position sensor was the problem resolved and it then started fine every single time from then on.
That sensor was thought, I beleive, NOT to be used during the start-up process but it was certainly the one that did it for me.
If I recall, when the problem happened for me, if I unclipped then put the sensor back on it would often clear the problem.
Googled, and found this clip for you.
.
#3: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: eddie206, Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:41 pm ---- Peugeot should be able to code read the car and go straight to the fault...not mess on for hours diagnosing...unfortunately the old sexist attitude still exsists as they charge poor defenceless women way over the real costs...
Im sure your neither poor nor defenceless but it doesnt stop the unscrupulous ones trying it on sadly...
The fault is certainly with the sensors but it seems strange that a wiggle of the sensor fixes the fault?allbeit temporarily???i would check the soundness of the wiring to the sensor...first remove the wiring plug from the sensor and make sure the sensor is firmly and soundly fixed in place...then have a good look at the wiring plug and the plugs attachment point on the sensor...if all is well so far clean the plug and socket best you can thenBUY A GOOD CAN OF MOISTURE REPELLANT(NOT WD40)ask for this at car parts shop...then generously drench the wiring plug and the plugs socket to clean and expell moisture ...then plug it back together and if your lucky this may have helped...NOT. WD40 THOUGH..
GOOD LUCK...
#4: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:25 am ---- Thanks both for your replies, really appreciated. Sadly I am poor and have had to buy the car after a job where I had a company car
#5: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:33 am ---- As a matter of interest, at what rpm do you shift gear?
You're not flooding it by any chance?
#6: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:56 am ---- Hi,
I can't say I have ever noticed what RPM I change gear at. What RPM would you suggest I changed gear at? Have been driving for 25 years if that helps - not a boy (girl) racer....
#7: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:37 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
Hi,
I can't say I have ever noticed what RPM I change gear at. What RPM would you suggest I changed gear at? Have been driving for 25 years if that helps - not a boy (girl) racer....
Hi Kay,
So what rpm do you change at very roughly?
Ofcourse, it highly depends on the load to the engine: uphill, level road, gear etc.
But next time you're in there, have a feel for the engine sound at which point you shift naturaly and see what the rev-counter says.
'Not saying you're not a good or experienced driver under any circumstances, but it could be linked to an actual fault.. Also, what was the previous car exactly?
For testing purposes alone, it would be worth trying to conciously shift at a much higher rev range overall and see if that makes any difference to the symptom.
#8: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:46 am ---- Ok will make a note. My previous cars have been various, Golf TDI, Megane for example, all under two years old.
#9: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: eddie206, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:48 am ---- Sorry about the poor saying,i had realised you are on a tight budget thats why i suggest spraying the valves electrical contacts...
A can of moisture repellant spray shouldnt be more than a fiver and by the sounds of things if a wiggle is putting it right the spray/clean might do the trick.
Just out of interest next time it happens open the bonnet and instead of touching the valve dont touch anything just hold the bonnet open for twenty seconds then close it like normal and start her up(if she will)...this is just to test if the bonnet open/close canceller is affecting anything...LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENS..
And of course if this doesnt help just lift it and wiggle like normal to get yourself going...
#10: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:54 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
Ok will make a note. My previous cars have been various, Golf TDI, Megane for example, all under two years old.
The pug will be alot more sensitive to labouring the engine, try later shifting and generaly keeping the revs higher to see IF that affects it come hot start-up time.
A good poke on the motorway will aslo help it clear it's throat.
All this might sound irelevant, but it's free so..
#11: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:01 am ----
eddie206 wrote:
Peugeot should be able to code read the car and go straight to the fault...not mess on for hours diagnosing...unfortunately the old sexist attitude still exsists as they charge poor defenceless women way over the real costs...
Im sure your neither poor nor defenceless but it doesnt stop the unscrupulous ones trying it on sadly...
The fault is certainly with the sensors but it seems strange that a wiggle of the sensor fixes the fault?allbeit temporarily???i would check the soundness of the wiring to the sensor...first remove the wiring plug from the sensor and make sure the sensor is firmly and soundly fixed in place...then have a good look at the wiring plug and the plugs attachment point on the sensor...if all is well so far clean the plug and socket best you can thenBUY A GOOD CAN OF MOISTURE REPELLANT(NOT WD40)ask for this at car parts shop...then generously drench the wiring plug and the plugs socket to clean and expell moisture ...then plug it back together and if your lucky this may have helped...NOT. WD40 THOUGH..
GOOD LUCK...
WTF?
#12: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:04 am ----
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
Ok will make a note. My previous cars have been various, Golf TDI, Megane for example, all under two years old.
The pug will be alot more sensitive to labouring the engine, try later shifting and generaly keeping the revs higher to see IF that affects it come hot start-up time.
A good poke on the motorway will aslo help it clear it's throat.
All this might sound irelevant, but it's free so..
All advice gratefully received! I do a fair amount of dual carriageway driving so it gets a clearout fairly often, and testing it yesterday morning was a drive to the nearest village and back - about 2 miles and it wouldn't start on my return. The other thing we noticed that may help was an amount of clicking coming from the same part of the engine as the sensor when it wouldn't start..... don't know if that is any help at all???
#13: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:06 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
The other thing we noticed that may help was an amount of clicking coming from the same part of the engine as the sensor when it wouldn't start..... don't know if that is any help at all???
Was this anywhere near the engine ecu?
Roughly in the area where you fill the screenwash up.
#14: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:08 am ----
eddie206 wrote:
Sorry about the poor saying,i had realised you are on a tight budget thats why i suggest spraying the valves electrical contacts...
A can of moisture repellant spray shouldnt be more than a fiver and by the sounds of things if a wiggle is putting it right the spray/clean might do the trick.
Just out of interest next time it happens open the bonnet and instead of touching the valve dont touch anything just hold the bonnet open for twenty seconds then close it like normal and start her up(if she will)...this is just to test if the bonnet open/close canceller is affecting anything...LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENS..
And of course if this doesnt help just lift it and wiggle like normal to get yourself going...
Hi, I can say that hasn't worked as it seems to depend on how I wiggle it, which obviously has to be done with the bonnet open
#15: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:10 am ----
MrBSI wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
The other thing we noticed that may help was an amount of clicking coming from the same part of the engine as the sensor when it wouldn't start..... don't know if that is any help at all???
Was this anywhere near the engine ecu?
Roughly in the area where you fill the screenwash up.
my washer bottle (yes I do fill it up lol) is to the left, this was more towards middle and up from there, about 5 inches from where I wiggle the sensor connector.
#16: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:12 am ----
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
Hi,
I can't say I have ever noticed what RPM I change gear at. What RPM would you suggest I changed gear at? Have been driving for 25 years if that helps - not a boy (girl) racer....
Hi Kay,
So what rpm do you change at very roughly?
Ofcourse, it highly depends on the load to the engine: uphill, level road, gear etc.
But next time you're in there, have a feel for the engine sound at which point you shift naturaly and see what the rev-counter says.
'Not saying you're not a good or experienced driver under any circumstances, but it could be linked to an actual fault.. Also, what was the previous car exactly?
For testing purposes alone, it would be worth trying to conciously shift at a much higher rev range overall and see if that makes any difference to the symptom.
I would say I never go over 3200 revs and changes are probably at about 2000 revs
#17: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:14 am ----
DREWDEN wrote:
Common issues causing warm start problems are the 3 following sensors :
Coolant temperature
Crank position
cam position
I had this issue, swapped the sensors in the above order, was only when I installed a new cam position sensor was the problem resolved and it then started fine every single time from then on.
That sensor was thought, I beleive, NOT to be used during the start-up process but it was certainly the one that did it for me.
If I recall, when the problem happened for me, if I unclipped then put the sensor back on it would often clear the problem.
Googled, and found this clip for you.
.
Hi, Yours is a diesel yeah, would it make a difference that mine is petrol?
#18: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:14 am ---- That sounds like the throttle body and 'the sensor' would be the ICV?
However, if it's small black and slightly to the left it's the MAP sensor (possibly with integral intake temp sensor in it).
#19: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:15 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
Hi,
I can't say I have ever noticed what RPM I change gear at. What RPM would you suggest I changed gear at? Have been driving for 25 years if that helps - not a boy (girl) racer....
Hi Kay,
So what rpm do you change at very roughly?
Ofcourse, it highly depends on the load to the engine: uphill, level road, gear etc.
But next time you're in there, have a feel for the engine sound at which point you shift naturaly and see what the rev-counter says.
'Not saying you're not a good or experienced driver under any circumstances, but it could be linked to an actual fault.. Also, what was the previous car exactly?
For testing purposes alone, it would be worth trying to conciously shift at a much higher rev range overall and see if that makes any difference to the symptom.
I would say I never go over 3200 revs and changes are probably at about 2000 revs
Bad.
#20: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:17 am ---- [/quote]
I would say I never go over 3200 revs and changes are probably at about 2000 revs[/quote]
Bad.[/quote]
ok so make it work more then
#21: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:18 am ----
V9977 wrote:
That sounds like the throttle body and 'the sensor' would be the ICV?
However, if it's small black and slightly to the left it's the MAP sensor (possibly with integral intake temp sensor in it).
it was a (feel really blonde here) silver part of the engine just below the throttle "wheel"
#22: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:19 am ----
V9977 wrote:
That sounds like the throttle body and 'the sensor' would be the ICV?
However, if it's small black and slightly to the left it's the MAP sensor (possibly with integral intake temp sensor in it).
the sensor that was replaced sounds like this, and i have to move the cable down its connection and push it back on. the connector looks clean
#23: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:23 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
That sounds like the throttle body and 'the sensor' would be the ICV?
However, if it's small black and slightly to the left it's the MAP sensor (possibly with integral intake temp sensor in it).
the sensor that was replaced sounds like this, and i have to move the cable down its connection and push it back on. the connector looks clean
Its sounding like a broken wire on that part of the loom
#24: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:27 am ----
MrBSI wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
That sounds like the throttle body and 'the sensor' would be the ICV?
However, if it's small black and slightly to the left it's the MAP sensor (possibly with integral intake temp sensor in it).
the sensor that was replaced sounds like this, and i have to move the cable down its connection and push it back on. the connector looks clean
Its sounding like a broken wire on that part of the loom
OK that makes sense, is the connector something I can open and fix, or do you mean its broken anywhere down the electrics, and likely to be a massive labour cost to replace?
#25: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:28 am ---- Just a thought, if its a broken connection, why does it start PERFECTLY when cold?
Just trying to understand...
#26: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:30 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
I would say I never go over 3200 revs and changes are probably at about 2000 revs[/quote]
Bad.[/quote]
ok so make it work more then[/quote]
Well it's obviously difficult to describe off the top of your head about this, and there could indeed be a sensor issue.
Definately worth shifting a lot later as a try, and keeping the revs highish to avoid labouring the engine.
This actually makes it work less not more, and doesn't over-fuel the cylinders come next start-up time.
Both me and my other-half had this issue at the begining even though I've been on the wheel for 20 years too.
I will try this when I am out working tonight, after all it's certainly one thing I can try myself. I am very grateful for all the suggestions.
#28: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:44 am ---- Maybe you could upload a picture of the sensor that your wiggleing.
#29: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:54 am ----
DREWDEN wrote:
Maybe you could upload a picture of the sensor that your wiggleing.
great idea, have taken a pic, can't see how to upload it
#30: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: kwakzx7r, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:00 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
DREWDEN wrote:
Maybe you could upload a picture of the sensor that your wiggleing.
great idea, have taken a pic, can't see how to upload it
Youll need to use a pic host like photo bucket and copy and paste the image code here to upload a pic
#31: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:03 am ---- i1334.photobucket.com/...9ff9a9.jpg
#32: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:04 am ---- MAP sensor without integral intake temp probe.
#33: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:04 am ---- Ok hope that has worked....
The sensor with the screw was replaced, I wiggle it's grey connector at the bottom of it down and then back up to make the car start
#34: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:07 am ----
V9977 wrote:
MAP sensor without integral intake temp probe.
I was told it was called the air inlet sensor, hence I have been referring to it as that. Does the image help?
#35: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:08 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
Ok hope that has worked....
The sensor with the screw was replaced, I wiggle it's grey connector at the bottom of it down and then back up to make the car start
Could be the connector itself, dirty contacts in the connector (not visible in the grey plug) or not related. Obviously it needs to click-lock into place to be fully-in.
#36: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:10 am ---- Hi, Yours is a diesel yeah, would it make a difference that mine is petrol?
Sorry i missed this reply, my quote was from another site, which was very simular to your problem, and was a petrol car.
#37: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:12 am ----
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
Ok hope that has worked....
The sensor with the screw was replaced, I wiggle it's grey connector at the bottom of it down and then back up to make the car start
Could be the connector itself, dirty contacts in the connector (not visible in the grey plug) or not related. Obviously it needs to click-lock into place to be fully-in.
thats one thing it doesn't do - click to lock in position - it never seems really sited
#38: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:17 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
Ok hope that has worked....
The sensor with the screw was replaced, I wiggle it's grey connector at the bottom of it down and then back up to make the car start
Could be the connector itself, dirty contacts in the connector (not visible in the grey plug) or not related. Obviously it needs to click-lock into place to be fully-in.
thats one thing it doesn't do - click to lock in position - it never seems really sited
OK, with the help of a flat-head screwdriver, gently prise-up the tab (at the top) and take connector completely out. Re-insert and it should click once fully-in. Repeat the process 3 or 4 times just to give the contacts a scrub. It would be worth using some contact spray if you find this has affected behaviour of the symptom (hot/cold etc).
#39: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:34 am ----
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
Ok hope that has worked....
The sensor with the screw was replaced, I wiggle it's grey connector at the bottom of it down and then back up to make the car start
Could be the connector itself, dirty contacts in the connector (not visible in the grey plug) or not related. Obviously it needs to click-lock into place to be fully-in.
thats one thing it doesn't do - click to lock in position - it never seems really sited
OK, with the help of a flat-head screwdriver, gently prise-up the tab (at the top) and take connector completely out. Re-insert and it should click once fully-in. Repeat the process 3 or 4 times just to give the contacts a scrub. It would be worth using some contact spray if you find this has affected behaviour of the symptom (hot/cold etc).
Ok did this.... I think it got a bit better siting, though it doesn't click cleanly into place, however in doing it, the top of the connection holder snapped off as I moved it, fortunately it doesn't seem to be affecting it's hold at all.
Do you recommend getting this replaced, and if so can I do it myself? Does it need doing?
#40: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:37 am ---- Is the bit that snapped the tab on the grey plug?
#41: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:38 am ----
V9977 wrote:
Is the bit that snapped the tab on the grey plug?
yes
#42: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:39 am ---- the bit that snapped was the oblong piece across the top, over the two raised bits on my picture
#43: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:44 am ---- Well it would be worth splicing a new (2nd hand) connector on there anyway incase it has internal bent contacts and that was going to be my next guess, if you want to make sure about that connection being the issue.
It should not affect electrical contact in the mean-time, it would need to be done by a garage but it's a very small job.
See if you get any improvement now with what you did, otherwise might be the gray connector faulty all along or even a completely different issue as I said above.
#44: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:45 am ---- Take the car back to the garage, that replaced your sensor (and use a bit of your charm) and see if he can test the power to the connector, so you can rule that out, if ok, ask him what else it could be.
You never know he might test and rule out other sensors.
#45: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:46 am ----
V9977 wrote:
Well it would be worth splicing a new (2nd hand) connector on there anyway incase it has internal bent contacts and that was going to be my next guess, if you want to make sure about that connection being the issue.
It should not affect electrical contact in the mean-time, it would need to be done by a garage but it's a very small job.
See if you get any improvement now with what you did, otherwise might be the gray connector faulty all along or even a completely different issue as I said above.
Thank you, I will see how it behaves tonight when I try and start the car between patients.
#46: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:47 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
Well it would be worth splicing a new (2nd hand) connector on there anyway incase it has internal bent contacts and that was going to be my next guess, if you want to make sure about that connection being the issue.
It should not affect electrical contact in the mean-time, it would need to be done by a garage but it's a very small job.
See if you get any improvement now with what you did, otherwise might be the gray connector faulty all along or even a completely different issue as I said above.
Thank you, I will see how it behaves tonight when I try and start the car between patients.
OK, good luck.
#47: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:52 am ----
DREWDEN wrote:
Take the car back to the garage, that replaced your sensor (and use a bit of your charm) and see if he can test the power to the connector, so you can rule that out, if ok, ask him what else it could be.
You never know he might test and rule out other sensors.
The mechanic at the garage seems to be immune to any of my charms sadly! He's also immune to any charm my poor old car might have, as he literally looks the other way when we drive up to his business! I know someone else I could ask to do that though.
#48: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:58 am ----
V9977 wrote:
Well it would be worth splicing a new (2nd hand) connector on there anyway incase it has internal bent contacts and that was going to be my next guess, if you want to make sure about that connection being the issue.
It should not affect electrical contact in the mean-time, it would need to be done by a garage but it's a very small job.
See if you get any improvement now with what you did, otherwise might be the gray connector faulty all along or even a completely different issue as I said above.
Is it cheaper for the garage to get the part of me to get the part and take it to them - found one that looks right on ebay - don't know for certain if its right...
#49: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:05 am ---- No that's not it.
The garage might well have one in their wires box to simply splice-on.
If the worst comes to worst I'll send you one by post.
In the mean-time, see if you get any difference now and definately shift much later than you do as discussed.
#50: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:08 am ----
V9977 wrote:
No that's not it.
The garage might well have one in their wires box to simply splice-on.
If the worst comes to worst I'll send you one by post.
In the mean-time, see if you get any difference now and definately shift much later than you do as discussed.
Am very grateful, thank you. Will report back after tonight's shift.
#51: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:11 am ---- NP, Best of luck.
#52: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:07 pm ---- I detest garages that have attitudes, i see it as their loss in the end, i now use a garage who is honest and genuine, any niggly bits he does for nothing, as he knows he will get my buisness, he even makes me a brew while i am waiting. (yes he is foreign)
Sorry you just got me going when i read your comment.
#53: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:14 pm ----
DREWDEN wrote:
I detest garages that have attitudes, i see it as their loss in the end, i now use a garage who is honest and genuine, any niggly bits he does for nothing, as he knows he will get my buisness, he even makes me a brew while i am waiting. (yes he is foreign)
Sorry you just got me going when i read your comment.
Know what you mean. I even explained to him what I do for a living - Rapid Response nurse for people who are dying, chosen to die at home but are in distress with pain or suchlike, and I swear he rolled his eyes! Don't get me wrong I wasn't asking for a favour, merely trying to explain why the car being reliable, and starting, is so important.
#54: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: eddie206, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 2:45 pm ---- Id go elsewhere..this man has a heart of stone...good luck tho.
#55: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:21 pm ----
eddie206 wrote:
Id go elsewhere..this man has a heart of stone...good luck tho.
so much for the good garage scheme eh!
In an interlude in tonight's shift I can confirm it's not yet fixed!
#56: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: kwakzx7r, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:35 pm ---- So, are you saying it always starts if you wiggle this plug on that sensor ? or will it start if you just leave it a minute or two? If its starts every time with a wiggle of this one connector then the problem has to either the plug or the sensor as it seems you have managed to restart the car every time by doing this?
If this is the case then I would suggest replacing either the sensor or connector or both.
#57: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:42 pm ----
kwakzx7r wrote:
So, are you saying it always starts if you wiggle this plug on that sensor ? or will it start if you just leave it a minute or two? If its starts every time with a wiggle of this one connector then the problem has to either the plug or the sensor as it seems you have managed to restart the car every time by doing this?
If this is the case then I would suggest replacing either the sensor or connector or both.
Hi, the sensor was replaced last week, which has stopped the problem where the car was revving by itself. To start the car when it is warm ie already driven somewhere, I have to wiggle the connector onto the sensor and turn the engine over a few times. Without doing this I would have to leave it a few hours, as in it always starts first thing in the morning, or first use of the day.
#58: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: kwakzx7r, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:02 pm ----
NurseyKay wrote:
kwakzx7r wrote:
So, are you saying it always starts if you wiggle this plug on that sensor ? or will it start if you just leave it a minute or two? If its starts every time with a wiggle of this one connector then the problem has to either the plug or the sensor as it seems you have managed to restart the car every time by doing this?
If this is the case then I would suggest replacing either the sensor or connector or both.
Hi, the sensor was replaced last week, which has stopped the problem where the car was revving by itself. To start the car when it is warm ie already driven somewhere, I have to wiggle the connector onto the sensor and turn the engine over a few times. Without doing this I would have to leave it a few hours, as in it always starts first thing in the morning, or first use of the day.
Then the next logical step has to be replacing the connector seeing as wiggling the connector gets the car running again
So, are you saying it always starts if you wiggle this plug on that sensor ? or will it start if you just leave it a minute or two? If its starts every time with a wiggle of this one connector then the problem has to either the plug or the sensor as it seems you have managed to restart the car every time by doing this?
If this is the case then I would suggest replacing either the sensor or connector or both.
Hi, the sensor was replaced last week, which has stopped the problem where the car was revving by itself. To start the car when it is warm ie already driven somewhere, I have to wiggle the connector onto the sensor and turn the engine over a few times. Without doing this I would have to leave it a few hours, as in it always starts first thing in the morning, or first use of the day.
Then the next logical step has to be replacing the connector seeing as wiggling the connector gets the car running again
Yes, it's worth a go but still not 100% definately it.
I can certainly send you a connector which is OK, just PM me (Private Message) the address where you want it sent.
#60: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:30 pm ---- quote="NurseyKay"] The other thing we noticed that may help was an amount of clicking coming from the same part of the engine as the sensor when it wouldn't start..... don't know if that is any help at all???[/quote]
Just thought, can you confirm, is the engine turning over when you hear clicking, just want to rule out the starter moter.
It has been known for the brushes in the starter motor to stick when the engine gets hot. And then be ok again when cooled down.
The other thing we noticed that may help was an amount of clicking coming from the same part of the engine as the sensor when it wouldn't start..... don't know if that is any help at all???
Just thought, can you confirm, is the engine turning over when you hear clicking, just want to rule out the starter moter.
It has been known for the brushes in the starter motor to stick when the engine gets hot. And then be ok again when cooled down.
Good point.
Also the ICV stepper motor could be clicking if there's a problem with it. (positioned more in the middle and back)
See if you can pin-point a bit more where the clicking is coming from next time it does it.
#62: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:21 pm ----
DREWDEN wrote:
quote="NurseyKay"] The other thing we noticed that may help was an amount of clicking coming from the same part of the engine as the sensor when it wouldn't start..... don't know if that is any help at all???
Just thought, can you confirm, is the engine turning over when you hear clicking, just want to rule out the starter moter.
It has been known for the brushes in the starter motor to stick when the engine gets hot. And then be ok again when cooled down.[/quote]
No, this is after trying to start it
#63: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:02 am ---- So basically when you try to start the engine when its hot, the engine is turning over at a fast rate, (meaning battery and starter motor seem ok).
Then when you stop trying, ignition off you can hear a clicking noise. hmmm.
Maybe someone on here might be more wiser what the clicking noise could be.
#64: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: eddie206, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:55 am ---- This poor womans been passed from pillar to post without any real progress...sorry fellas but she has.
Why doesnt someone whos keen to help ask kay where the car is located and go have a look for her because im sure shes probly more confused now than before she first posted.
I hate to add to the confusion but the clicking does sound like the solenoid trying to engage or disengage with the starter motor...but i cant be sure...like the other posts,the best way to help kay will be to actualy have a look at her motor for her seen as shes a nurse and all if shes near me i will gladly have a look...im Darlington area if i can help..
#65: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:06 am ----
eddie206 wrote:
This poor womans been passed from pillar to post without any real progress...sorry fellas but she has.
Why doesnt someone whos keen to help ask kay where the car is located and go have a look for her because im sure shes probly more confused now than before she first posted.
I hate to add to the confusion but the clicking does sound like the solenoid trying to engage or disengage with the starter motor...but i cant be sure...like the other posts,the best way to help kay will be to actualy have a look at her motor for her seen as shes a nurse and all if shes near me i will gladly have a look...im Darlington area if i can help..
That would be amazing, I'm in Rushden, Northants
#66: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:20 am ---- Well said eddie 206.
It would be a whole lot easier, if some kind person in her area helped her.
See what the cars doing when you try to start it when engine is hot etc.
My sister and mother are both nurses and i know what a great job they do for people.
Unfortunately i live in Huddersfield, but would have gladly helped.
#67: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:23 am ---- Take the car to a qualified electrician, explain the problems in detail and get the codes read from the engine computer (ECU) with diagnostic equipment.
As you say, the vehicle is critical for your work and they are actually very reliable and nice to drive cars 206.
The issue you describe is not easy to track-down and fix through here and you can end-up spending more time and money than simply going to a decent garage who will do the work. It could actually be something really-really simple/cheap once you find-out.
Connector on it's way tomorrow.
#68: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:24 am ---- If it helps explain where the clicking is from, say what number it's nearest to.
Although it's not the same engine (can't find one for the 1.6) a general area might help narrow it down.
#69: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:35 am ----
macca1411 wrote:
If it helps explain where the clicking is from, say what number it's nearest to.
Although it's not the same engine (can't find one for the 1.6) a general area might help narrow it down.
2,21,22 ish
#70: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: VorTechS, Location: Gloucestershire, UKPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:44 am ---- So about where this orange square is?
#71: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: Tolkienfan001, Location: SpaldingPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:47 am ---- Isn't the starter at the back of the engine?
#72: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:02 am ----
VorTechS wrote:
So about where this orange square is?
yes that would be it
#73: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:03 am ----
V9977 wrote:
Take the car to a qualified electrician, explain the problems in detail and get the codes read from the engine computer (ECU) with diagnostic equipment.
As you say, the vehicle is critical for your work and they are actually very reliable and nice to drive cars 206.
The issue you describe is not easy to track-down and fix through here and you can end-up spending more time and money than simply going to a decent garage who will do the work. It could actually be something really-really simple/cheap once you find-out.
Connector on it's way tomorrow.
Thank you, I am very grateful
#74: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:06 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
Take the car to a qualified electrician, explain the problems in detail and get the codes read from the engine computer (ECU) with diagnostic equipment.
As you say, the vehicle is critical for your work and they are actually very reliable and nice to drive cars 206.
The issue you describe is not easy to track-down and fix through here and you can end-up spending more time and money than simply going to a decent garage who will do the work. It could actually be something really-really simple/cheap once you find-out.
Connector on it's way tomorrow.
Thank you, I am very grateful
No problem Kay.
It will take seconds to fit and will be one less thing to elliminate as possible cause.
Is the starter-motor actualy turning when you try to turn the key or is that when you get just the clicking and nothing happens?
In any case it will need to be looked at by someone with gear by the sounds of it but it shouldn't break the bank.
#75: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: eddie206, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:09 am ---- Anyone near Rushden in Northants able to help out a nursey in distress???
even if youre not the best mechanic you can rely on the others here on 206info to relay the answers to you as long as your more clued up than poor kay you can examine the patient,check the connector plugs,locate the clicking and make some progress for the poor lass...
I will check a map and find out exactly where she is,and what towns are near.
#76: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:11 am ----
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
Take the car to a qualified electrician, explain the problems in detail and get the codes read from the engine computer (ECU) with diagnostic equipment.
As you say, the vehicle is critical for your work and they are actually very reliable and nice to drive cars 206.
The issue you describe is not easy to track-down and fix through here and you can end-up spending more time and money than simply going to a decent garage who will do the work. It could actually be something really-really simple/cheap once you find-out.
Connector on it's way tomorrow.
Thank you, I am very grateful
No problem Kay.
It will take seconds to fit and will be one less thing to elliminate as possible cause.
Is the starter-motor actualy turning when you try to turn the key or is that when you get just the clicking and nothing happens?
In any case it will need to be looked at by someone with gear by the sounds of it but it shouldn't break the bank.
I hear what I presume is the starter motor turning, like a dry sound
#77: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:15 am ---- Does the starter motor sound different when it actually does finaly start the car?
#78: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:19 am ----
V9977 wrote:
Does the starter motor sound different when it actually does finaly start the car?
when is does start, it sounds like its coughing and spluttering which i presume was the unspent fuel
#79: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:20 am ---- it then needs a good rev or it dies immediately, then once it is going it is fine again until I stop, purposely, then it won't start again. Still starts perfectly first use (thank goodness!) Last edited by NurseyKay on Tue May 21, 2013 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total
#80: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
Does the starter motor sound different when it actually does finaly start the car?
when is does start, it sounds like its coughing and spluttering which i presume was the unspent fuel
Yes, this sounds like a flooded engine to me so we're back to the begining.
What's the idle RPM when it's up and running?
#81: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:23 am ----
V9977 wrote:
NurseyKay wrote:
V9977 wrote:
Does the starter motor sound different when it actually does finaly start the car?
when is does start, it sounds like its coughing and spluttering which i presume was the unspent fuel
Yes, this sounds like a flooded engine to me so we're back to the begining.
What's the idle RPM when it's up and running?
about 1000-1200, I did think it smelt a bit rich, when the bonnet is lifted, but I really don't know what I am talking about!
#82: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:25 am ---- Maybe someone also in that area, knows good garages they use can reccomend to her, so shes not going to be ripped off, if it comes to that point, and put her mind at ease.
#83: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:26 am ----
DREWDEN wrote:
Maybe someone also in that area, knows good garages they use can reccomend to her, so shes not going to be ripped off, if it comes to that point, and put her mind at ease.
The one I did go to, was one from the "good garage scheme" thinking it would be good for that reason!
#84: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:41 am ----
DREWDEN wrote:
Maybe someone also in that area, knows good garages they use can reccomend to her, so shes not going to be ripped off, if it comes to that point, and put her mind at ease.
I can't see why everybody keeps going-on about this that she's going to get ripped-off and so and on.
It's a bit of an underestimation from what I reed on this thread so far.
So many people go to garages some are good some are s**te.
That's the way it is with everything. If you are not happy with the work they do or what they charge, explain everything to the next people you go.
Personaly I would take it straight back to the same garage and say: Nope, problem not solved with what you did - it now won't even start which is obviously even worse for my line of work.
I can't see why you should be hanging on threads so to speak to try and sort a problem like this yourself, which again requires gear to do properly as I said.
Just my 2 cents..
In other news, 1000-1200 RPM (if you are sure about this) is too high when engine has warmed. Possibly ICV (Idle Control Valve) could be up the spout and clicking coming from there.
Again, it would need a garage to sort this and be able to tell for sure.
#85: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:54 am ----
V9977 wrote:
In other news, 1000-1200 RPM (if you are sure about this) is too high when engine has warmed. Possibly ICV (Idle Control Valve) could be up the spout and clicking coming from there.
Again, it would need a garage to sort this and be able to tell for sure.
If the ICV has stuck in one position, then the ECU will be getting the wrong information when trying to start the car from warm which could be what's causing your problem.
Have you also noticed an increase in fuel consumption since the problem started?
#86: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:56 am ---- Once the engine is up to running temp then the idle speed should be around 850 rpm unless the aircon is running as it will rise slightly due to engine load.
#87: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:04 am ----
macca1411 wrote:
V9977 wrote:
In other news, 1000-1200 RPM (if you are sure about this) is too high when engine has warmed. Possibly ICV (Idle Control Valve) could be up the spout and clicking coming from there.
Again, it would need a garage to sort this and be able to tell for sure.
If the ICV has stuck in one position, then the ECU will be getting the wrong information when trying to start the car from warm which could be what's causing your problem.
Have you also noticed an increase in fuel consumption since the problem started?
Its certainly not cheap to run, but I don't have much to compare it with as I have had the car for about 2 months and this saga has been going on for more than half of that
#88: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: eddie206, Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:52 pm ---- I will tell you what id try...next time you fill up add some engine cleaner/fuel system cleaner/power boost fuel additive...
If you goto your local car parts shop and explain you want the best fuel additive to give the engine and fuel system a good clean they should point you in the right direction...
Just follow the instructions on the bottle and it will take a full tank of fuel but its worth a try and the additive should be under a tenner easily
..
REDEX is a popular brand of additive.
NOX is also popular.
WYNNS aswell....
All brands sell different variations so you could be spoilt for choice so ask the staff.
#89: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: Timon2210, Location: PalestinePosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:09 pm ---- I believe that your problem is the simplest one,you need to replace the Starter Motor,next time you have this problem,try to have the car parked up a hill,then put it in second gear,and turn ignition on,and let the car move few meters down with your foot on clutch pedal,and then take it off,and if the car starts then you will be sure it's Starter Motor. (But be careful while doing this,and do it on your own responsibility)
#90: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:30 pm ----
Timon2210 wrote:
I believe that your problem is the simplest one,you need to replace the Starter Motor,next time you have this problem,try to have the car parked up a hill,then put it in second gear,and turn ignition on,and let the car move few meters down with your foot on clutch pedal,and then take it off,and if the car starts then you will be sure it's Starter Motor. (But be careful while doing this,and do it on your own responsibility)
Thank you for this, I have tried a start like this but didn't know about being in second. This is relatively easy to do as one of my regular visits at the moment is on a hill...
#91: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:30 pm ----
eddie206 wrote:
I will tell you what id try...next time you fill up add some engine cleaner/fuel system cleaner/power boost fuel additive...
If you goto your local car parts shop and explain you want the best fuel additive to give the engine and fuel system a good clean they should point you in the right direction...
Just follow the instructions on the bottle and it will take a full tank of fuel but its worth a try and the additive should be under a tenner easily
..
REDEX is a popular brand of additive.
NOX is also popular.
WYNNS aswell....
All brands sell different variations so you could be spoilt for choice so ask the staff.
Thanks, will do this tomorrow
#92: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:54 pm ---- Asda has had Redex on offer recently. Think it was £4 per bottle.
#93: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:37 pm ----
macca1411 wrote:
Asda has had Redex on offer recently. Think it was £4 per bottle.
Great, thanks
#94: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:41 am ---- Any updates Kay.
#95: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: NurseyKay, Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:50 am ---- Hi yes, just back from another garage. (I appreciated the advice to go back to the other, but they didn't want my business!) I am now £220 worse off but have a new starter motor to show for it. I also have two holes in an air pipe diagnosed with instructions to get one from a scrap yard, as thats what is causing the revving by itself, which is back with a vengence, however....
It now starts when warm!!!!!
Thank you all for your advice.
#96: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:14 am ---- Great news, don't want to dampen your spirits but £220 does seem a bit pricey for a starter motor and fitting, unless on that engine its realy, realy, akward to fit and time consuming.
#97: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:37 am ----
NurseyKay wrote:
Hi yes, just back from another garage. (I appreciated the advice to go back to the other, but they didn't want my business!) I am now £220 worse off but have a new starter motor to show for it. I also have two holes in an air pipe diagnosed with instructions to get one from a scrap yard, as thats what is causing the revving by itself, which is back with a vengence, however....
It now starts when warm!!!!!
Thank you all for your advice.
That's good news, pipe shouldn't be pricey to fix too I shouldn't think.
#98: Re: 206 1.6 GLX 1999 won't start from warm Author: Timon2210, Location: PalestinePosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:11 pm ---- glad you got it fixed Kay,too bad that I'm not closer,I would of fitted the new starter motor myself
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