#1: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:42 am ---- Hello all,
Due to the last few days of baltic weather my little pug is struggling to start first thing in a morning. The only thing that gets it going is to crank it in gear so it lurches forward then dip clutch and start again (I know probably very stupid and dangerous thing to do, but so is upsetting my boss!
It has been sounding a bit tractorish (that is a made up word :D) recently which after splashing some water on felt belt and noticing the sound stops i'm guessing its due a change. However could this be causing the non starts? battery is almost new and seem sokay. It doesn't sound lazy on startup and all electrics seem to be operating at full power.
any ideas?
Thanks
#2: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: 2stroke, Location: IrelandPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:23 pm ---- check the glow plugs ?
if you disconnect the glow plugs then individually touch a live wire from the battery
the glow plug should spark a little, if it doesn't spark its dead..
hope that helps diagnose whether the glow plugs are involved.....
what is the felt belt ?
think you mean alternator or power steering belt/ serpentine belt..
#3: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:02 pm ---- I'll check the plugs tomorrow thanks, I'd initially ruled them out as after trailing old forums most people had said that the plugs were hardly ever used and were there more as a back up.
Yes I did mean fan belt sorry, stupid autocorrect and me being too lazy to spellcheck
#4: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: 2stroke, Location: IrelandPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:32 pm ---- had a peugeot 406 that was getting hard to start on cold mornings, 3 of the glow plugs had gone.
#5: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:20 pm ---- Yeah well update the engine management light has come on, stayed on for ten minutes of driving then went off. Would the glow plugs affect the light?
#6: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: rlees85, Location: DaventryPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:38 pm ---- No... to my knowledge glow plugs don't affect engine light... and FWIW I had a 306 and a 406 both with broken glow plug relays (so all 4 glow plugs NOT working) and both started first time without any chugging/etc at -10c... I would get your codes read first, it will probably point you in the right direction... Even if the engine light is now off, it should have stored a code.
#7: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:13 pm ---- thanks for your help, I'll try get somebody with Peugeot planet to read it for me, I'm going to change the auxiliary belt tomorrow even if it doesn't affect starting at least it won't sound like a tractor anymore.
#8: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:43 pm ---- Completely broke down today, AA man came out and managed to get it going, he says there looks to be a leak somewhere between the pump and the priming bulb and air is in the tank, when the priming bulb is pressed for a few minutes it fires up but almost straight after parking it up, all the pressure drains and it going back to being very soft.
Anybody come across this before?
#9: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: dsiingh, Location: West MidlandsPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:55 am ---- I havent had this happen to me as of yet. But does sounds abit louder than normal on these colder mornings. Get it sorted before the big freeze(snow)
#10: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:47 am ----
dsiingh wrote:
I havent had this happen to me as of yet. But does sounds abit louder than normal on these colder mornings. Get it sorted before the big freeze(snow)
I know tell me about it!! I'm just shut up in my garage now with a hot coffee and refusing to leave until I've at least located the air leak.
#11: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: Leegsi, Location: Near PortsmouthPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:30 am ---- When was the last time you changed the fuel filter as the seal's can shrink and allow air in at that point.
Also to check the glow plugs use a volt meter set to Ohms and check the resistance between the top of the glow plug (With the connector removed) and a good earth point (Ideally the earth on the battery). The reading should be les than 3 Ohms for a good glow plug.
#12: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:45 am ----
Leegsi wrote:
When was the last time you changed the fuel filter as the seal's can shrink and allow air in at that point.
Erm to be honest last time it had a recorded service was 2011, but the lady I bought it off had said her husband had serviced and the oil and filters were in very good condition admittedly I only changed the oil and air filter and they both looked in decent condition, I didn't change the fuel filter ;
Leegsi wrote:
Also to check the glow plugs use a volt meter set to Ohms and check the resistance between the top of the glow plug (With the connector removed) and a good earth point (Ideally the earth on the battery). The reading should be les than 3 Ohms for a good glow plug.
Thanks, think I have a multimeter in garage, so I'll dig it out and check it.
#13: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:00 pm ---- It's the fuel lines, common problem on this engine. They rub around the (air filter) I think, causing an air leak, will make it hard to start. Search on here or Google, but this has been covered before.
Glow plugs don't really get used until it gets down to -5 really, it hasn't been that cold with me.
#14: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:34 pm ---- Thank you very much that's very helpful you wouldn't happen to know why size pipe I would need as £100 seems a bit steep! Was thinking of just getting some universal rubber pipe and making my own
#15: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:17 am ---- Have a look at it first. You might get away with taping it up as a temporary measure.
#16: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:42 am ----
James3107 wrote:
Thank you very much that's very helpful you wouldn't happen to know why size pipe I would need as £100 seems a bit steep! Was thinking of just getting some universal rubber pipe and making my own
Less than £40 for the two pipes from the dealer.
First off buy a tin of tracing powder and spray it on all the pipes and connections and around the injectors to see if you have a leak. It may not be visible to the eye, but tracing powder will highlight it.
James3107 wrote:
AA man came out and managed to get it going, he says there looks to be a leak somewhere between the pump and the priming bulb and air is in the tank
I wouldn't worry about air being in the tank. All cars have air in the tank, it's what replaces the fuel as you use it.
#17: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:13 am ---- Update!!
I have found the leak it was in the pipe going from the left side of the fuel filter:
So i have replaced it with some 10mm fuel pipe from Andrew PAge but its a lot thicker than the original
It fits in the plastic clips perfectly and is airtight, however since i installed it the car is so underpowered, cant get it past 40 and it wont rev past 2000rpm,
I have had to route the pipe behind the airbox:
But its still straight and there is no massive bends in it.
it does say this on it but should it make much of a difference?
#18: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:15 am ---- So now there's massive power loss, and it feels like the Diesel isn't getting to the engine properly but i have taken the pipe back off checked it and the inside has had diesel coming through and there isn't any leaks behind the pipe. Any ideas?
#19: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: DREWDEN, Location: huddersfieldPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:24 am ---- Can't you just take the old pipe to a garage and let them braze weld the fuel line.
I think the pipe should have been 8mm, someone will correct if i am wrong.
#20: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 am ---- Did you bleed the air out of the system when you replaced the pipe?
#21: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:52 am ----
macca1411 wrote:
Did you bleed the air out of the system when you replaced the pipe?
No I didn't what a spoon! How do I do that please?
#22: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:00 am ---- The old fashioned way was to crack open the connector to each injector in turn, ask a friend to crank the car over and tighten up the connector when diesel was coming out. Bit messy but worked.
I wouldn't be surprised if on a modern diesel there isn't an easier way, or even if it needs doing at all.
You could also make sure that there's no water in the water trap on the filter. Normally a warning light would come on when it was full, but Peugeot and electrics aren't the most reliable combination.
#23: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:01 am ----
DREWDEN wrote:
Can't you just take the old pipe to a garage and let them braze weld the fuel line.
I think the pipe should have been 8mm, someone will correct if i am wrong.
It had started to harden and deteriorate where it joins to the clips as well it look well and truly on its way out.
Oh I hope it isn't 8mm
but I took the clip to pages wit me and fitted it into the pipe there where it sat over the notches very nicely and wouldn't move with pulling. Also I put the metal ties that came with the pipe on for extra strength
#24: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:07 am ----
macca1411 wrote:
The old fashioned way was to crack open the connector to each injector in turn, ask a friend to crank the car over and tighten up the connector when diesel was coming out. Bit messy but worked.
I wouldn't be surprised if on a modern diesel there isn't an easier way, or even if it needs doing at all.
You could also make sure that there's no water in the water trap on the filter. Normally a warning light would come on when it was full, but Peugeot and electrics aren't the most reliable combination.
Right I'll have to have a look into that and may have to try bleeding it tomorrow. But I have noticed how much more resistance the priming bulb now has when the old pipe was on it took a good 60 seconds of pumping to build any pressure, now it's constantly firm.
I think I'm going to change the filter tomorrow for peace of mine so I'll check all that hopefully that'll solve the problem. It's like an SDI up hills at moment!
#25: Re: HELP! 1.4 HDi won't start!!! Author: James3107, Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:40 am ---- Problem fixed!
Did as advised, cracked one of the injectors and used the priming bulb until all air bubbles stopped, tightened back up runs sweet as a nut now...
A MASSIVE thank you to everybody that helped me! The advice, as always, was spot on.
Cheers guys, saved me a lot of money and headache there, in total fix only cost £5.24, compared to the £40+ quote off garages.
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