#1: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:08 pm ---- Hi everyone,
as I'm heading towards finishing my build I thought I'd share it with the community here.
The car is a 1999 206 GTI 138 sans multiplex. I have owned the car since 2010 and until last year the car was 100% stock. At first the idea was only to swap the inlet and exhaust manifolds from the GTI180, however I decided to go a bit further.
Please, take into account this is a daily, street driven car occasionally used at track days, so the extent of the build only goes so far (for now). In time, hopefully the car will develop further.
At the last TA session last season (only modifications at the time: KW V1, CompBrake CNC fixed spherical bearing top mounts and EXTREME stainless steel exhaust system):
Last year I baselined the car 100% stock before any interventions took place and the result was 116WHP and 157WNM. This was recorded on a Mustang MD-AWD-500-SE dyno.
What we've noticed is that out of the factory the car comes leaned out a bit (still very safe though). I'm currently running stock cams and ECU at this stage. Baseline to tune plot comparison should be interesting when the car is done.
Difference between Dell'Orto TB and the OEM unit
RACE_FACE Fuel rail with GTI180 injectors fitted
Oil dipstick powder coated
AEM FPR
Marshall shock proof FP gauge
CompBrake CNC fixed spherical bearing top mounts
GTI180 Exhaust manifold (sandblasted)
Head is assembled with the valves in place
There is still some work left and I'm still waiting on a couple of parts, but hopefully the car will be finished by the end of next week. I will post the results after the modifications as soon as we start the car and map it. I believe this pretty much covers all mods to the best of my memory. If I remember anything I've missed I'll be sure to add it on here. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
Stay tuned for more info and pics Last edited by lrc_toto on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
#2: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:28 pm ---- Looks good. Refreshing to see a standard looking 206 on the outside.
#3: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: Timon2210, Location: PalestinePosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:13 am ---- Well done my friend,I like the mechanical tuning
#4: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:46 pm ---- nice to see another 206 being modded for speed, is that rr printout without a re-map
#5: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:56 am ---- Cheers lads,
@usher yes, completely stock. The graph hasn't been touched.
#6: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:03 am ---- That explains it had a look on mine with cam's and a remap I got 120whp so after the map you should get a good gain. I'm looking at the 180 inlet but can't find accurate results on gains for that alone. Itbs are still a possibility
#7: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:33 pm ---- That's strange!?! Only 4WHP difference and you had cams and a remap? Did you baseline it before the cams and remap? What were your mods at the time? What dyno was it?
Keep in mind this car was absolutely stock when measured at the dyno (stock exhaust, cat, stock intake, regular petrol, etc).
The GTI180 inlet manifold alone won't make much of a difference. Needless to say, head work is needed for bigger gains as the stock one presents some noticeable restrictions.
For real gains with ITBs you will need a stand-alone ECU.
EXTREME Custom 2.5inch stainless steel exhaust system
Last edited by lrc_toto on Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total
#8: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:46 pm ---- the cams i have are a re-profile so nothing extreme, i had exhaust manifold, induction kit and port and polished throttle body at the time and gained 12 bhp on the re map engine power
#9: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 7:50 am ---- Update.
The car has been ready for some time now. However, lack of free time postponed the dyno session a bit. Last week I went to the dyno.
The results were 135WHP or ~162HP ATFW.
After swapping the GTI180 B&P inlet and exhaust manifolds, stage 2+ head, 2.75inch TB and Megasquirt Hybrid ECU the net gain is 20WHP. Stock cams, stock compression.
Some believed that the big TB will make the car laggy and difficult to drive as a daily but that's not true. Better driveability than stock, dare I say it. Engine response has improved greatly.
I still need to lower the intake filter as it is soaking a lot of heat from the engine. The need for a LSD diff is more noticeable now.
Also, I am very happy with the GTI180 gearbox mechanism. No more missing 2nd gear. Absolutely different feel.
#10: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:56 am ---- More pics and dyno pull videos
#11: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: jonsully, Location: irelandPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:27 am ---- great job i like those engine mods!!what was the cost of them?
#12: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: heyziq, Location: MalaysiaPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:29 am ---- nice!
#13: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:10 pm ---- @jonsully, I don't want to say what the cost of the engine mods was as I think many people here spending big £ on their cars won't be happy and will get demotivated
just to put things into perspective the following:
If there ever was a contest BHP gained per £ spent I will win quite easily
#14: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: existenz, Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:30 pm ---- Are the Compbrake top mounts easy to fit ?
There seem to be some problems on the 106 and 306 model, but from what I've seen they are just fine on a 206. Thinking about getting them too. Did you modify them to fit the KWs ?
#15: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:20 pm ---- The CompBrake top mounts for the 206 are a direct fit and quite easy to install. One of the few things that really are "plug&play" for the 206 in my experience. I'm very happy with them.
#16: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: existenz, Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:41 pm ---- That is great to hear, they surely are cheap and 1° camber might be enough for daily/track use.
#17: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:46 pm ---- The CompBrake top mounts are great for now, i.e. street/track use.
In the meantime I bought a couple more parts.
#18: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: existenz, Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:06 pm ---- What nut size did you use for the coilovers and the combrake top mounts ?
#19: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:29 am ---- Nice Mod!! I am seriously looking into doing this MOD. Exactly what Dellorto 2.75 throttle body did you use? I have not been able to identify the one in your photo.
#20: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:31 pm ----
And a short video from PugFest 10 a couple of months ago:
No real driving as I didn't have tires but managed to get 3rd place in the Drag batlle earlier in the day (no video of that, sorry ).
#21: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:38 am ---- How is this MOD working out toto? Any problems arise afterwards? Did you ever do a timed 0-60 run after all the mods?
I'm still waiting on the mechanic to finish porting and polishing my cylinder head, intake manifold, make the adapter for the gti6 TB etc... maybe in December I'll have it all installed.
#22: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:43 pm ---- Update.
@America The DellOrto TB is from a V6 Alfa Romeo but I wouldn't suggest going that way as you will need to rework the whole mechanism of the butterfly. The car is performing brilliantly!! No issues whatsoever. I haven't done any timed accelerations yet, but I'll do when spring sets in and I've got semi-slicks on the car.
We are expecting a lot of snow here soon, so the car will be going into hibernation for the winter. There is a pretty long to-do list so I'll keep busy.
Some of the planned mods include:
- 406 V6 Brembos with ATE discs
- finally sorting out the intake
- mounting the oil cooler
- launch control activation
- semi-slicks
Bonus: A small 70-150km\h acceleration with very slow shifting
#23: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:22 am ---- Thanks for the update! Glad to hear the GTI is still performing well with no problems.
I am using a gti6 tb for my mod. The mod has been delayed for a while but I think next month it should be complete. The major delay has been the head work.
#24: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:10 pm ---- To some extent head work will make a significant difference in the overall performance if done right, so I guess it's worth the wait. If I remember correctly the GTI-6 TB has Ø ~70mm which is much larger than the stock TB of the EW10J4.
#25: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:31 am ----
lrc_toto wrote:
To some extent head work will make a significant difference in the overall performance if done right.
Yeah... thats the scary part IF it's done right. Thats why I bought a secondhand head to have the work done on. The guy knows what he is doing with the head but when it's all over will it work well all together with the rest of the components? I sure hope so!
I think the throttle plate on the gti-6 TB is 60mm which is significantly bigger than the gti's.
#26: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:02 am ---- When you blocked off your EGR did you put a blank off plate on the block, or did you block the passages in the head? I'm having the passages in the head blocked and I'm wondering if there were issues that had to dealt with afterwards with the remap.
#27: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:10 am ---- Just take the hose off the adaptor that screws into the front of the head. You can fabricate a cap to go on it.
#28: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:32 am ----
Edward wrote:
Just take the hose off the adaptor that screws into the front of the head. You can fabricate a cap to go on it.
Edward thanks. Thats what I was going to do but the shop that is working on the head told me the passages in the head for the EGR disrupt the air flow so he is going to seal off the passages. Will this mess with the ECU?
#29: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:13 pm ---- Happy New Year everyone!
You can go without blocking the passages. Mine are blocked as I wanted the maximum from the stock head.
What Edward said is easier and will work.
There won't be any problems with the ECU.
#30: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:53 am ---- Thanks Irc-toto. I'm going to stop by the shop thats working on my head tonight and see if there has been any progress.
#31: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:47 am ---- I wouldn't block any passages in the head as they could interfere with any contraction or expansion of the head as it cools and heats up.
#32: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: America, Location: Catania, ItalyPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:23 am ----
Edward wrote:
I wouldn't block any passages in the head as they could interfere with any contraction or expansion of the head as it cools and heats up.
I really like how they turned out. Some serious stopping power!! ATE disks, ATE pads, Motul Racing 660 brake fluid and stainless steel braided brake lines. 15mm spacers up front.
Also, dropped the height of the rear axle. That really helped balance the car. Next to a mate's 200bhp GTI-6 306 and a V6 405
Sadly, I encountered some serious problems with the suspension at this year's Pug Fest. The car was very unpredictable both on and off-throttle. Turned out to be one of the front KW's :
I am currently running stock front shocks with Eibach springs:
Fixed the intake. This actually made a noticeable difference in acceleration as the engine is finally sucking some colder air.
Next on the list:
Front suspension
Shorter final drive. I already have it, just need to find the time to assemble the new gearbox.
Some heat management. Custom front mask. There is a lot of heat in the engine compartment. Replacing the battery with a lightweight one. Larger custom aluminum radiator.
LSD
Enabling the LC
#34: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: Sim, Location: West CountryPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:20 am ---- That some car pron mate! Those calipers...
How big are the disks? Heard from pro_steve one can fit 307's 302mm disks and calipers just under 16in wheels (skin of teeth of space left really, but fits!) Here's a photo
But these look not as big however 4 piston must grip like hell!
Pity we didn't catch up during pugfest, where in the world are you based?
#35: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:13 pm ---- The disks are 288mm if I remember correctly.
Actually the piston surface of the 4-piston callipers is a lot bigger than the stock 2-piston callipers. Add the ATE disks and pads, the stainless steel braided brake lines and the Motul brake fluid and you will notice a significantly better brake performance compared to the stock brakes.
They squeak a lot though.
When I approach a bus stop and apply even the slightest pressure on the brake pedal it's like a train stopping. Most people on the bus stop get frustrated or scared.
I live in Sofia, Bulgaria.
Btw, I made a small mistake in my previous post - the spacers are 15mm. The 13mm ones didn't clear the stock wheels. Last edited by lrc_toto on Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:15 am; edited 1 time in total
#36: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: Sim, Location: West CountryPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:06 pm ---- Fair play mate Interesting to know hmm maybe they'll bed in a bit and squeak less? Awesome macro picture of more car pron from your first post!
Sofia, BG, so it says your location, for whatever weirdest reasons I thought your licence plate is French (closer look does say BG lol), your english is better than of a native speakers and pugfest was just in UK, so I got confused as to where you're from lol
#37: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: existenz, Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:10 am ---- Nice progress mate.
The compbrake mounts fit the Eibach just fine? They look rather thick, so I imagine they might affect the ride height?
I'm thinking about the Brembo from the V6 as well (running 15' Ultras offset 18 - the fit without spacers afaik). The 288 discs are the best option in regards to noise, 283 are worse. Do you run standard 22.2 master cylinder?
#38: Re: Le Bebé GTI180/RC Author: lrc_toto, Location: Sofia/BulgariaPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:08 am ---- I am using the stock shocks with Eibach springs. I removed the top mounts with the KW's.
Standard master cylinder for now.
Thinking of swapping the standard GTI138 oil pan and sump for the GTI180/RC one?? Any recommendations?
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I'm very happy with them.
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