#1: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:05 am ---- Hows it going, just finished doing the water pump, timing belt and other service sort of things. Before i realised you have to lock the cams and crank i removed the pulley without using the tool, so ordered tool and re-timed the motor. However now the new belt tensoiners and pump are on, the motor wont ignite, it just cranks over and choofs out of the exhaust and the throttle body. what is this? We thought maybe we where out 180 degrees (not on compression) with the crank, so turned it over, but still does the same thing. Anybody know what this is and why? thanks heaps, Aaron.
#2: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:55 am ---- Not got a clue because I don't know which lump you have under the bonnet.
#3: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: usher, Location: northallertonPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:16 am ---- its a 180
#4: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:23 am ---- the lump is ew10j4s
#5: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:39 am ---- Sounds like one or more of the inlet valves is open on the compression stroke. This could be down to bad timing or a damaged valve
Might be worth re-checking the timing and turning the crank through 360 degrees while the belt is off. Cylinder 1 would then be on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression and so on for the other cylinders.
Do this carefully and before cranking the car on the starter, turn the engine using a spanner to make sure the valves and pistons don't meet. Sometimes easier to remove the spark plugs so that you aren't fighting the compression when you do this. Last edited by macca1411 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
#6: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:45 am ---- Did you crank it twice by hand to check for no interference? EML light on? What guide did you use for timing?
#7: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:50 am ---- not sure what the guide is, but ill link it : peugeot-citroen.net/im...4-2004.PDF
I locked the cams and crank together using the Peugoet locking tool kit aswell. yeah we turned the motor alot of times with a ratchet to ensure there was no valves hitting the cylinders. Whats EML light? the engine light stays on whille cranking the motor via starter motor if that means anything. It sounds like it wantas to go but just doesnt
#8: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:20 am ---- EML is engine light. Did you disconnect anything.
#9: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:34 am ---- How did you lock the crank?
#10: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:47 am ---- yes locked the crank and disconnected battery and coilpack
#11: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:54 am ---- using the special tool, fits into the hole in the back of the motor
#12: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:11 am ---- Get someone that KNOWS what there doing to look at it before you make things any worse.
Its ok having access to special tools but when you haven't got a clue how to use them this is when expensive f**k ups happen.
#13: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:45 am ---- Don't these engines have a floating crank?
#14: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: billo3000, Location: LeicestershirePosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:37 am ---- The timing will be out. Had the same problem after I done the head gasket on my mg and even though it was locked off it had somehow rotated 90 degrees and done the same as what yours is doing
#15: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: kwakzx7r, Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:49 am ---- I thought the whole point of this forum was to help those that needed help, not to tell them to take it to "someone who knows what they're doing" If someone has the confidence to try and do it themselves then with the right help there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do these jobs themselves, learning how to do it and have the knowledge to pass onto others !!
#16: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:57 am ---- This is just yet another DIY GTI 180 timing belt gone wrong thread to add to the ever growing list on here
#17: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: macj, Location: EssexPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:13 am ---- With all the best will in the world you are performing the biggest engine killer in the automotive industry..... the cam belt change.... I always suggest that you read up on it, you seek advice before attempting it and you double check all your stages as you go.
In simple terms, measure twice, cut once.
As for your current predicament I suggest you get a local mobile mechanic to come and run his eye over it before you go any further.
#18: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:38 am ----
kwakzx7r wrote:
If someone has the confidence to try and do it themselves then with the right help there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do these jobs themselves!
Seems a little knowledge and confidence is dangerous! Surely you studied and researched the job before you started it?
#19: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: omega, Location: nottinghamPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:46 am ----
kwakzx7r wrote:
I thought the whole point of this forum was to help those that needed help, not to tell them to take it to "someone who knows what they're doing" If someone has the confidence to try and do it themselves then with the right help there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do these jobs themselves, learning how to do it and have the knowledge to pass onto others !!
I think people are worried that you will damage your engine costing you more than getting someone in who knows what they doing!
#20: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: kwakzx7r, Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:20 pm ----
omega wrote:
kwakzx7r wrote:
I thought the whole point of this forum was to help those that needed help, not to tell them to take it to "someone who knows what they're doing" If someone has the confidence to try and do it themselves then with the right help there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do these jobs themselves, learning how to do it and have the knowledge to pass onto others !!
I think people are worried that you will damage your engine costing you more than getting someone in who knows what they doing!
I have seen poster's here post "if you have to ask that then you shouldn't be doing it" !!!!! just because someone doesn't know the particular car they have just bought, it doesn't mean they are incapable and should be able to post asking a genuine question without fear of being labeled an idiot for asking
#21: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:24 pm ---- Youve f****d it. Simple as.
Do a compression check and when you find its down on one or more cylinderd, im offering £250 for it
#22: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: data, Location: HerefordPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:31 pm ---- OUCH!
#23: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:00 pm ---- Compression test results:
Cylinder 1: 3psi/40kpa
cylinder 2: 3psi/40kpa
cylinder 3: 4psi/60kpa
cylinder 4: 4psi/60kpa
I recorded many results but basicaly each cylinder reached about 60kpa and nothing over. This leads me to think i havent bent a valve, but maybe 1 or 2 teeth out on the inlet cam. As the compression stroke is coming up, the one of the two intake valves are slighty open and the compression is escaping. This weekend i will re-time the motor and re-test. Will keep thread updated.
Aaron.
#24: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:19 am ---- I have never see compression that low even with one or two teeth out. I hope you are right but I don't think so.
#25: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:54 am ---- Does seem low.
#26: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:56 am ---- performancetrends.com/...essure.htm
#27: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:41 am ---- It's a prototype low compression EW10J4S engine
#28: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:37 am ---- I've seen an engine with no head on with a higher compression.
#29: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: macj, Location: EssexPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:04 pm ---- it could be fuccked
#30: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:55 pm ---- The timings in correct. But there is still a high chance all the valves are slightly bent
#31: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: V9977, Location: Athens, GreecePosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:17 pm ----
kwakzx7r wrote:
I thought the whole point of this forum was to help those that needed help, not to tell them to take it to "someone who knows what they're doing" If someone has the confidence to try and do it themselves then with the right help there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do these jobs themselves, learning how to do it and have the knowledge to pass onto others !!
Cars kill.
#32: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: kwakzx7r, Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:20 pm ----
V9977 wrote:
kwakzx7r wrote:
I thought the whole point of this forum was to help those that needed help, not to tell them to take it to "someone who knows what they're doing" If someone has the confidence to try and do it themselves then with the right help there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do these jobs themselves, learning how to do it and have the knowledge to pass onto others !!
Cars kill.
LOL and thats it!! lmao So every self taught mechanic on this web site and others must be lucky to be alive !!
#33: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:06 pm ----
kwakz wrote:
V9977 wrote:
kwakzx7r wrote:
I thought the whole point of this forum was to help those that needed help, not to tell them to take it to "someone who knows what they're doing" If someone has the confidence to try and do it themselves then with the right help there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do these jobs themselves, learning how to do it and have the knowledge to pass onto others !!
Cars kill.
LOL and thats it!! lmao So every self taught mechanic on this web site and others must be lucky to be alive !!
So does that mean being trained by PSA peugeot citreon I wont die?
Awesome
#34: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:19 pm ---- So, back to the topic. We re-timed the motor and it starts. For about 1-2 seconds. However it stalls and shuts down. If i leave the ignition on, the engine light stays on and so does the battery one. Then if i start it agin it starts, but then shuts down. Is the ECU plug the steering wheel fuse compartment? ill link a pic of the plug. I disconnected the coilpack sensor, battery, cam sensor plugs. On these motors do you have to reset any ECU's? if so how?
#35: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: 20Drift, Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:34 pm ----
Aaron180 wrote:
So, back to the topic. We re-timed the motor and it starts. For about 1-2 seconds. However it stalls and shuts down. If i leave the ignition on, the engine light stays on and so does the battery one. Then if i start it agin it starts, but then shuts down. Is the ECU plug the steering wheel fuse compartment? ill link a pic of the plug. I disconnected the coilpack sensor, battery, cam sensor plugs. On these motors do you have to reset any ECU's? if so how?
Quote::
Multiplexed Electrical System
When disconnecting the battery to do electrics, or just to change it, you need to follow this guide. Failure to do this could result in a £600 bill from Peugeot!
* Put down the drivers window.
* Pop and Open the bonnet. Shut ALL DOORS apart from the bonnet.
* Leave the car for at least 3 minutes. This allows the BSI to shut down and go to "sleep."
* Disconnect the clamps on the battery, and change/do electrics/whatever you are planning to do.
* When reconnecting, reattach the clamps on the battery. Don't shut the bonnet yet. Leave the car for a few more minutes. This allows the car to settle.
* Lean through the drivers window, and turn the sidelights on. (Don't open the door.)
* This is called a "Soft Start" for the BSI.
* Let the car finish thinking about everything, and check all the systems etc.
* Start the car.
#36: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:41 pm ---- Thats the same for most modern cars man... and yes that was done.
#37: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:09 am ---- The problem is your compression. Have you retested it, how many teeth were you out, and on which side?
#38: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:08 pm ---- Okay so i read the fault codes through my phone using an OBD2 scanner of a friend, and timing on camshaft A (inlet) is infact still out. Thats the problem. Timing this engine is a B****
#39: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:06 am ----
Aaron180 wrote:
Timing this engine is a B****
It is for someone like you that's obviously out of there depth
#40: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:41 pm ---- Yeah last time im touching the poxy thing i can tell you! Know anything about the intake cam advancing and retarding? and how can it be reverted manualy?
#41: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:32 am ---- Car runs perfectly now, there were NO BENT VALVES, and no other faults. The timing was off, there is also 2 pin holes for the intake cam. That is what threw us off. Finally finished now and loves the sounds of the engine now it works.
#42: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Conners300983, Location: Bradford, UKPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:49 am ---- Fair play mate, glad to hear it's running. Perseverance is king
#43: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:01 pm ---- You are so lucky to have got away with that. Well done for persevering.
#44: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: DanT, Location: Torbay, EnglandPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:12 pm ---- Very lucky! Have you driven it? I ask because just because it runs doesn't mean its timed up right
#45: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:45 am ---- Not lucky, i just knew the basics.. e.g. when people told me the valves where bent i knew they werent, i have a good understanding of how engines work, just never worked on a floating crank weird french setup but hey... learn something new everyday. Nah havent road tested yet, but it will run fine.
#46: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Steve206, Location: UKPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:28 am ---- If you had followed the Citroen c4 manual for this engine, I bet you wouldn't have had the problems
#47: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: DanT, Location: Torbay, EnglandPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:32 am ----
Aaron180 wrote:
Not lucky, i just knew the basics.. e.g. when people told me the valves where bent i knew they werent, i have a good understanding of how engines work, just never worked on a floating crank weird french setup but hey... learn something new everyday. Nah havent road tested yet, but it will run fine.
No...you were lucky. You timed an engine up around 45 degrees out on the inlet cam by the sounds of it, there is no possible way you knew you hadnt bent anything until you had gone right back through it all again. Just a bit of advice pal, drive it. Because many people have done it, or had theirs back from a garage where it starts and drives fine, but is way down on power when you get up the revs, all due to being a tooth out. God knows how but it seems to happen a lot.
#48: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: Aaron180, Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:37 pm ---- nope, drives perfectly, infact probably better than before dude, thnaks anyway though.
#49: Re: Engine not starting after timing belt replaced Author: DanT, Location: Torbay, EnglandPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:54 pm ---- I never said it wouldnt drive perfectly, i said you were lucky, which you were. Glad its sorted though never nice to read the horror stories on here.
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