#1: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START. ....SOLVED ...... Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:43 pm ---- car wont start
daughter had to be towed home , temperature gauge shot into the red and it wouldn't start again , this happened to me a year ago but i stopped for 10 mins and it started all right and has been fine till the other day
having got it home and i started looking around for the solution
both by looking on here and on the car itself but it still wont start
i have bough new bosh plugs and a new coil pack ,
replaced he 2 relays in the little box next to the radiator fan , behind the grill , the wiring in there was so corroded it was unbelievable
checked all fused with a tester
it still wont start
i am getting a strong spark at the plug
i am now of the opinion that the engine isn't getting any fuel , the plugs come out bone dry despite loads of turning over but not a whisper of it firing
i was aware of a clicking coming from the petrol idle control valve and it was getting quite warm , i took it of but it doesn't seem to be doing anything when i turn on the power or try to start the car . could that be the fault ?
if i am right in saying i don't think its getting petrol , what else could it be (the tank is half full and when i take the little dust cap of the fuel bar and push the little valve like a pushbikes inner tube then petrol gushes out)
sorry for long post , just trying to fit in all that ive done
brian Last edited by Sproggy on Tue May 13, 2014 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total
#2: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Timon2210, Location: PalestinePosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:40 pm ---- Well for a start make sure you have not short circuit what so ever,and all fuses are fine,then try the safe reboot,which you can find the list of steps in here,and try to start it.
about fuel,you might have a clogged fuel filter,take a look at it down the car,and btw have you checked if the timing belt still in it's location?
#3: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: E5GDM, Location: EssexPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:44 pm ---- Could be a dodgy fuel pump, but a lack of petrol wouldn't have caused the temperature gauge to go up.
Try to borrow or get another pump, then if it runs check the engine oil & cooling systems out.
#4: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:30 pm ---- HI ,
Timing belt is there good and strong
fuel is being pumped to the injector unit , i am thinking it is after the fuel pump where the problem lies
i have visually checked the wiring over ad cannot see a problem , im not really any good at electrics, i have a meter but don't understand its use .
i don't know anyone else with a 206 that i can lend a fuel pump from unfortunately , the Haynes manual says manually prime the fuel till there is fuel in a clear pipe but i don't see where on the car to do that
#5: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:38 pm ---- Have you checked for fault codes? As i wouldnt have done anything till i had
Have you checked for fault codes? As i wouldnt have done anything till i had
i had 2 fault codes , one was for the coil pack , and one for the coolant fluid sensor , i have replaced them both , however the coolant senor fault remains , that is what lead me to replace the 2 relays also , yet the code for the coolant sensor still remains
the dash also indicates "eco mode"
i only have a cheap 30 pound code reader from ebay , it doesn't specify that it is for peugeot though its a vgate vs550 obd/eobd scanner
#7: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:17 am ----
Sproggy wrote:
the dash also indicates "eco mode"
That's NOT a fault, its perfectly normal & will vanish once the engine is running.
#8: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:12 pm ---- Compression test?
Probably isn't low but worth ruling out as checking that is free or only the cost of a tester. That is much cheaper than continuing to throw parts at it.
The cam belt can still be in place but have skipped a few teeth and bent valves leading to low compression. unlikely but can happen.
Or the belt can strip teeth but, from quick inspection, appear to be good. The engine turns over but the belt stays still. Again bent valves and no compression.
Compression test?
Probably isn't low but worth ruling out as checking that is free or only the cost of a tester. That is much cheaper than continuing to throw parts at it.
The cam belt can still be in place but have skipped a few teeth and bent valves leading to low compression. unlikely but can happen.
Or the belt can strip teeth but, from quick inspection, appear to be good. The engine turns over but the belt stays still. Again bent valves and no compression.
thats a good idea , i have a old tester somewhere i will have a go tomorrow evening .
i have spent all day finding plug sockets and taking apart and cleaning them all, just for something to do . one large earth lead just under the washer bottle was not even connected, probably from when the car was in a minor accident , lazy garage didnt put it back in
still not running , not even trying to start , i still believe that its not getting fuel
the idle speed stepper motor appeared to be getting quite hot to the tiouch and the relay for it seemed to be clicking on and off quite alot , i wonder if that is faulty .
i will keep trying till ive had enough of it , luckily we dont need the car at the moment
#10: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: mattymj, Location: NorfolkPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:00 pm ---- Does the fuel pump prime when the ignition it turned on?
Also when was it last serviced inc filters
#11: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:13 pm ---- Will it fire with the good old fashioned "easy start" squirt direct into the inlet? That will give a steer on lack of fuel being the cause. Again a can of "easy start is cheap."
Do the compression test first though as cars with very low compression will still fire with easy start.
#12: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:00 pm ---- im not sure how to tell if the pump primes , should i hear it buzzing when ignition turned on
ive just read i should put pedal to floor then turn in ignition to prime the syatem , that anothe thing to ry tomorrow
las serviced last year end of summer , but only by me going around looking at things , oil and filter and air filter
no easy start available , i need to call in at a autofactors to get some stuff, car cleanr contact cleaner and now some easy start , strting to add up is the cost of this problem
#13: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:38 pm ---- Well i got some easy start and it made no difference. Still didnt start . I found my very old compression tester to find it would not fit into the recess where the coil pack fit due to the injector rail . I took the rail off to find that it still would nof fit the hole as it is too short to make a seal . Call to my brother in law revealed he has one , unfortunatly i have had to pack in to meet him in the pub in a while to collect the tester if he can find it .
Running out of patience with the thing , however as the car is in the driveway , cant get it to the garage , i cant find a local mechanic that is mobile (ossett) so becoming a little frustrating
Am i right in thinking if the key remote opens the door and turns the engine over , its nothing to do with that side of things.i.e everything matches so it not the immobiliser for example , thats stopping it from starting.
Brian
#14: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:42 pm ----
Sproggy wrote:
Am i right in thinking if the key remote opens the door and turns the engine over , its nothing to do with that side of things.i.e everything matches so it not the immobiliser for example , thats stopping it from starting.
Brian
It will turn over all day long until either the battery goes flat OR you burn the starter motor out.
The immobiliser on a 206 doesn't stop the starter motor from turning, it's a software lock on the engine ecu.
#15: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:47 pm ---- Further the the above, what kind of reading should i be looking for from a compression tester
Brian
Am i right in thinking if the key remote opens the door and turns the engine over , its nothing to do with that side of things.i.e everything matches so it not the immobiliser for example , thats stopping it from starting.
Brian
It will turn over all day long until either the battery goes flat OR you burn the starter motor out.
The immobiliser on a 206 doesn't stop the starter motor from turning, it's a software lock on the engine ecu.
Mmmmmmm does that mean that it can be that he engine will turn over but not start , due to a ecu lock ( i think thats what your saying mr bsi ) . If so how am i to cure that problem .
Brian
#17: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:04 pm ---- Armed with the brother in laws compression tester i quickly discover 2 things
1) the petrol pump is working strong as it pumps petrol all over the engine when i crank for compression
2) there's no compression on cylinders 1and2
A third thing is that you cannot take the head off alone in 4 hours ,( beaten by daylight ). Also as thought above the cam belt is slipping on the gears so ive no idea how many valves i will need till i finish getting the head off
I now need a list of what to buy to rebuild -
Valves
Injector o ring seals
Head gasket
2belts
?????
#18: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:06 pm ----
kandlbarrett wrote:
Do the compression test first though as cars with very low compression will still fire with easy start.
Thanks for the tip kandlbarrett
#19: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Addaz, Location: SuffolkPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:09 pm ---- How the flying hell did you not here it had no compression when you turned it over?!
Its a blantly obvious sound, all you hear is weazing and no good combustion
And yes you can take the head off in four hours, thats the book time Pretty easy job, personally though i would just replace the cylinder head. Cheaper and easier
#20: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:30 pm ----
Addaz wrote:
How the flying hell did you not here it had no compression when you turned it over?!
Its a blantly obvious sound, all you hear is weazing and no good combustion
And yes you can take the head off in four hours, thats the book time Pretty easy job, personally though i would just replace the cylinder head. Cheaper and easier
Hi im not a mechanic, just a cack handed amateur doing the best i can with advice from very friendly people on here , no garage for the car working alone on my drive with a miss mash of tools
Sometimes the obvious isnt obvious untill its obvious and that what happened here to me , now i know what it is ,,,,, its obvious . Hopefully all will be fine in a few days , hopefully gsf will be open on bank holiday monday for me to get parts, i am working at it between my regular job so time is limited .
Just learnt i will probably also best buy a new water pump whilst its so dismantled
Cheers all for the advise and interest
#21: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:00 am ---- I now have the head off. It would appear that the head gasket has blown , on closer questioning of my daughter she tells me she has been topping up the water alot over recent months ........ Why didnt she tell me earlier.
I flooded the valve area of the head with petrol , port one leaked through very slowly , port two leaked out quite quickly , however ports three and four were fine
I have taken the valves out and i cannot see any bend in them , i have rolled them on a glass panel and they appear fine , which puzzles me somewhat
There are no contact marks on any of the cylinder heads
Could i be lucky and gat away with just re grinding and re seat the valves ?
I am gonna have the head skimmed , taking it to drakes in bradfors but they appear closed today as no answer to the phone .
I will ask them to look at the valves as they are the expert
In relation to the timing holes , can anyone tell me the position that the pistons should be in when the pin is placed in the timing hole
As it appeared the timing belt had been slipping i didnt put a pin in the hole to dismantle the engine ,
I have researched this but so far only found where to put the pin in when taking the head off , but as this wasnt done as mentioned above , i would like to know where the poistons should be
For example should piston 1 be tdc , or otherwise .
Thanks Last edited by Sproggy on Mon May 05, 2014 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
#22: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:24 am ---- FYI: Being a Peugeot remember that cylinder number 1 is at the GEARBOX end of the engine
#23: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:27 am ----
MrBSI wrote:
FYI: Being a Peugeot remember that cylinder number 1 is at the GEARBOX end of the engine
Thanks for that , i had no idea of that ,
i ask re the piston position because i read somewhere that there are 2 holes in the crank , i don't want to choose the wrong one if thats possible
#24: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:50 am ---- Sounds like valve regrind will suffice.
If any doubt at all and you can afford it a 2 new new valves won't break the bank though. New valves are much cheaper than doing it again in a few weeks or months or worse a valve breaking!
#25: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:46 am ---- I took the head and valves into Drakes this morning in Bradford
They are gonna look if any valves are bent . And re seat them. I have also asked them to skim the head as it was in a sorry state . For what it costs I may as well have it done . It will be ready before Friday
I noted last night that the plastic inlet manifold has melted around the mounting holes and I've lost a little brass strengthening insert so I am on the lookout for another manifold ,
I still had no answer re the piston positioning for the timing
#27: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:42 am ---- I have the Haynes manual , however , as it covers quite a few derivatives, its not clear on the issue . and its important to get it right or I am back to square one with compression ... probably
#28: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:21 pm ---- i have to report a success story
i have spent some time and money on the car , armed with advice from the good people on here i can now report a successful outcome
in summary
i checked all the electrical things that i could , tried master resets , fuses relays etc without any success , bought new coil pack and bosch spark plugs also relays for the cooling fan that ere located in the little box behind the radiator grill . all to no success
the advise to check the compression was the turning point as i discovered no compression on ports 1 and 2 ( i now know to be 3 and four as its a Peugeot) i got a rollicking from addaz for not realizing i had no compression but i got over it
i spent the next day stripping down the head and taking it to drakes who as in the past have given excellent service i got
head skimming
1 new inlet valve
all valves re cut and seated
full gasket set
new head bolts
this cost me £116 pounds
whilst i was at it i also got a new timing belt kit
auxiliary belt
water pump
2 oil filters (i drained the old oil and used various odd bits of oil and added some Wynne flushing solution )
a gallon of fully synthetic oil
i also went to a local scrap yard to get a inlet manifold and a fuel bar as mine had melted near mounting points due to the heat , i also picked up other little bits and pieces for a total of £30 - bargain
with 4 days off work i set about- slowly and steadily - rebuilding things back up , working alone it took a full day and three quarter of the next day to complete the rebuild including completing the rebuild of trims that i had previously removed
i will add that i took it really slow and steady , no rush at all as i had plenty of time
set the tappets
i put the key in the ignition ,not expecting it to start as i had a nasty gut feeling that the ecu was also faulty s a part of my problems
turned the key ---- on first turn i got the shock of my life as the engine almost started , spluttering and coughing bit not quite jumping into life , however after a few goes ,,,,, success it started , running very rough but it started.
i turned it of , for some reason and started again and it runs as sweet as a nut , like a dream .
conscious the oil wouldn't be much good i drained it, changed the filter and put in various bits i had around the garage , got it to temperature then added some Wynne flushing additive , then drained , changed filter and filled up with fully synthetic
its running perfect now , starts first time every time
i haven't fully worked the cost but i recon its close to 400 pounds , that's probably a little less than the car is worth , but i have had it from new and know its history so money well spent in my view .probably didn't need the coil pack but it appears from advice on here that as its 10 years old its due to fail any time now
so that how i solved the problem of my car that wouldn't start
i hope my experience as recorded above helps other members of the forum , as much as forum members have assisted me
i have taken a few photographs of things as i went along
i haven't yet fully added up the cost but i do have the receipts , if any one wants to know the full exact cost let me know and i will post it up on here
Further to the above , i also changed the thermostat, i bought one of those cheap lazer temperature readers , think it was about 15 pounds a few months back , i tested the originL thermostat in a pan of water , it only opened at
104 c , the new one stamped 86c opened smack on 86c , could this have been the cause of the original problem .... Perhaps i will never know
Brian
#29: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START. ....SOLVED ...... Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:03 pm ---- Thermostat opening at that temp will almost certainly be root cause of the head gasket failure.
106 at the stat will be far in excess of that around valves etc.
Well done that is a great success story for a relatuive novice. Far more experienced mechanics have completely messed up head work and valve timing on these.
Give yourself a firm pat on the back, have a pint or two and put your feet up.Then, this weekend give the car the clean and polish it deserves.
Give yourself a firm pat on the back, have a pint or two and put your feet up.Then, this weekend give the car the clean and polish it deserves.
Thanks for that
I did indeed have a few bottles of Brew Dog special ales
pleased to say car still running fine ,
#31: Re: 206 1.4 verve 2003 WONT START. ....SOLVED ...... Author: Sproggy, Location: ossettPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:41 pm ---- Just a quick update
The auxhillary belt i got from gsf hasnt lasted the course , it snapped and dissapeared i know not where, after only around 40miles. I have bought a genuine peugeot one , cost over 25 pounds , hopefully that will last the course .
Other than that everything is still 100 percent fine, quite chuffed really .
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Pretty easy job, personally though i would just replace the cylinder head. Cheaper and easier
