#1: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:01 am ---- Hi
I have a 2006 8v 1.4 Peugeot 206 with the full electric throttle.
It will not tick over when cold unless I hold it open on accelerator pedal at about 1000rpm. It then feels as if it is missing and stalls when trying to pull off. If I keep it running for 2 to 3 min all is ok, it ticks over at 850rpm.
I have changed the spark plugs, air filter, thermometer and water temperature sender( temperature was not reading correct)
Once warm the car runs really well and ticks over fine. I have read some codes of the car and come back with
P0135 ----02 sensor
P1161 --- ??
p2101 ----Throttle Actuator Control Range/performance
P01222--- Throttle pedal Position sensor
p1157 ----Vehicle speed sensor
I have not cleared any since servicing the car, and possible some will go now plugs and air filter etc changed.
Any thoughts appreciated
#2: Re: tick over when cold Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:54 am ---- P1161 is linked to the throttle motor.
Could be worth checking the electrical connector to it as it seems to be a common issue on the TU3 engines.
On other PSA models, there is reference to the connector to the BSI being a bit dodgy on RHD models.
The best check would be to use PP2000 and run the check to see if the TB is operating correctly
#3: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:08 am ---- Thanks for the reply,
with reference to the connections are you referring just to the block that connects to the throttle motor ? I did take the throttle off and managed to open the back where the electric coil etc is in. Not a lot to do in there so I just sprayed with WD40. When I put it back it did feel a bit better.
As I am sure you are aware I could not see any other tickover valves on this body is there anything there that needs cleaning ( I cleaned the main venturie)
I am not into some terminology, however I know what PSA and RHD stands for but what is BSI and TB stand for ?
Thanks again
#4: Re: tick over when cold Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:15 am ----
n17ele wrote:
Thanks for the reply,
with reference to the connections are you referring just to the block that connects to the throttle motor ? I did take the throttle off and managed to open the back where the electric coil etc is in.
Some of the fault codes stored could have been triggered by simply unplugging things while you have been working under the bonnet.
Best thing to do would be clear ALL the fault codes in the memory, drive the car for a day or 2 ( or the diagnostic light comes on again ) then re scan for faults.
BSI = Built in Systems Interface, the software driven computer brain that controls ALL the cars electrical systems over a digital CAN VAN network.
TB would be Throttle Body.
#5: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:31 am ---- Thanks, never been good at crosswords.
Interestingly my EML (engine management light :-)) has never come on.
I have now removed the codes and will update on what happens
#6: Re: tick over when cold Author: kandlbarrett, Location: SwindonPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:40 am ---- +1 for Mr BSI advice.
So many people chase faults that are old and nothing to do with current problem. Best advice is always clear faults and start from scratch.
#7: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:42 am ---- Hi
Cleared all errors and been out for 11 mile ride.
Summary is
- it starts really well
- will not tick over unless I hold foot lightly on accelerator. It will tick over at 950 when doing this (may be less than this )
- However if you go to rev up the engine it feels as if it is missing and very lumpy.
- Once it has been kept running for a few min it will rev up ok and will tick over and drives very well
- No EML light comes on
- Error code is P0135 the exhaust sensor
Would the above fault cause above symptoms ?
Thanks
#8: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:53 am ---- Just took a 'freeze frame' whatever that is ?
Car was just turned on not running. I had started the car which would initially tick over for 5 seconds.
I do not know what data is captured but thought it may help ?
DTCFRZF P0135
FUEL SYSTEM 1 O/L
FUEL SYSTEM2 N/A
LOAD PCT 84.3
ETC 52
SHRTFI1 0.8
LONGFI1 99.2
MAO ( inHG) 28.6)
rpm 0
VSS 0
#9: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:59 am ---- fault code P0135 is saying that your O2 sensor on top of the manifold is faulty, really common fault,
just dont buy a cheap one off ebay, they don't work properly and wear out very quickly, less than 6 months as I found out.
#10: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:00 am ---- Thanks, would that cause the tickover problem ?
#11: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:15 pm ---- probably, because the ecu isn't getting the correct signal from the sensor it's getting confused
and running in a sort of fail safe mode that is set from the factory.
strange it's not putting the eml light on the dash tho,
it did on mine.
#12: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:48 pm ---- I have read that the EML will only come on if the sensor other side of cat is playing up ?
Peugeot quoted £125 for sender !! Europarts have them for £29 www.eurocarparts.com/e...9ec&000210
Don't want to spend £120 on something that may cure problem. Even if Europarts only lasted a couple of months it would confirm what the problem was.
What do you think
#13: Re: tick over when cold Author: Anthonys206, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:01 pm ---- Sorry to steal your thread but my 1.4 seems to have a similar problem. On cold mornings it would lose power when pulling off for 5 seconds or so but picks up again and goes along like nothing happened. I think it has something to do with the heater within the sensors being faulty. Unless you can get a known working second hand one i would go with a genuine part as its a real pain to think you've solved a problem only for it to come back a month or so later.
#14: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:18 pm ---- I can get a 2nd hand one, but price similar to new one from europarts. Trouble is you don't know how long a 2nd hand one would last, but would think a new one would have some guarantee.
My aim is really to find out the cause of problem. If it is cured with the sensor than at least I know what is wrong if and when it reoccurs
#15: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:22 pm ---- I'm not sure, when I got my car the light was on, so plugged it into my mate diagnostic gizmo and it came back with the same fault as yours,
changed the sensor which cost £20 from my local motor factors, but the one I bought didn't come with a plug so I soldered the old plug on, fitted it and the light went off.
6 months down the line the light came back on so I plugged back into my mates machine again and it said o2 sensor again.
he reckons it's because I bought a cheap sensor, maybe that one eurocarparts is a better part because it's got the plug already fitted.
for 30 quid it's got to be worth a go I suppose.
#16: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:24 pm ---- I don't get that hesitation with mine tho, but a new sensor is better than a 2nd hand one.
#17: Re: tick over when cold Author: Anthonys206, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:30 pm ---- My eml light has never been on and both of my sensors are faulty. Both were replaced with eurocarparts sensors because I couldn't justify spending £120 on one sensor and £150 on another. Both worked fine for a couple of months and now I'm back to square one. Thats just my past experience with cheap sensors and they were the ones with the plug on.
#18: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:14 pm ---- that's not good, I was going to be changing both of mine over Christmas while I had some time off.
did you change you cat at the same time?
#19: Re: tick over when cold Author: Anthonys206, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:19 pm ---- Yeah, that's the reason I changed the sensors in the first place. I'm planning on changing them in the next few weeks as its getting annoying waiting for it to warm up.
#20: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:32 pm ---- Did you use a genuine cat, because I've read horror stories on here about pattern part cats.
I've got a mate who works in my local Peugeot dealers and he got me a proper cat,
i'll ring him tomorrow about a price for new sensors. I'll let you know how I get on.
#21: Re: tick over when cold Author: Anthonys206, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:45 pm ---- It was a cat off Ecp actually, type approved so should be ok. I'm sure it was something like £270 odd for 2 new sensors but I could be wrong. That's why I'd rather go with a known working second hand sensor. They go for a few quid on eBay. If it doesn't work then It's no great shakes you haven't lost much but saves you £100 if it works.
#22: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:53 pm ---- i'll phone my mate tomorrow, then i'll go and have look in my local breakers,
I think Citroen xsara's have the same sensors and there's more of them there than phase 2 206's.
fingers crossed, I don't think the misses will be too happy if I have to spend another £200 on the car.
#23: Re: tick over when cold Author: Anthonys206, Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:04 pm ---- No mine either, especially after paying £380 in damages to a fiesta owner I ran up the a**e of last week!
#24: Re: tick over when cold Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:13 pm ----
Anthonys206 wrote:
No mine either, especially after paying £380 in damages to a fiesta owner I ran up the a**e of last week!
That's what you have insurance for
#25: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:26 pm ---- Ouch! I'd get away with doing that because she would class that as an accident,
but spending hard earned on what she calls a f**king heap of sh**e, that should be scrapped or sat on by an
elephant, no way.
she's a strange one my misses.
#26: Re: tick over when cold Author: Anthonys206, Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:51 am ---- I totally agree that's what insurance is for but believe it or not insurance is quite high for a 20 year old so if paying £380 saves my no claims then why not.
#27: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:52 am ---- Just ordered a 2nd hand one, Parts Gateway had a number of breakers with them ranging from £10 to £30.
All OE stuff. Ordered one for £15 delivered with a 90 day warrantee. These are so easy to change it is worth a gamble for £15 just to see if this is what is causing the issue. If this cures it then if item does break after 90 days I will know what needs to be done. If it does not cure it, it only cost £15 to scratch a possibility off the list . Will update once fitted.
Thanks for comments
#28: Re: tick over when cold Author: macca1411, Location: Westhoughton, LancashirePosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:37 am ----
Anthonys206 wrote:
I totally agree that's what insurance is for but believe it or not insurance is quite high for a 20 year old so if paying £380 saves my no claims then why not.
It doesn't save you at next renewal as you need to declare the bump to the insurance when they ask "Have you had an accident in the last 5 years?" then they want the details and who was to blame.
If you don't declare it and your insurance find out (which they may already be aware of via the CUE database), then they cancel your cover, which means the next time you try and get insurance you have to tick the box that says "Have you ever had insurance refused or cancelled?"
Quite a few companies won't touch someone who has had a policy cancelled, and those that do will increase the premium that much that you will be paying more than what your car is worth.
#29: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:32 am ---- Nice one N17ele, I didn't think of looking on there, let me know if it works.
#30: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:11 pm ---- Hi
Received the sensor, it has a blue connection , my original was green. Wire colours are in order. Is this ok to fit ? or will it give wrong reading.
Thanks
#31: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:21 pm ---- Hi Mate, as long as the fit plug together ok if should be fine, whats the worst thing it's going to do? turn the eml light on?
try plugging them together before you pull the sensor out.
#32: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:39 pm ---- I've just been outside to check the colour's on the plugs on my sensors and mine has green on the top sensor
and blue on the down wind sensor.
I,m not sure if it will give a proper reading if mounted in the manifold.
#33: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:19 am ---- Hi I have fitted it and no error message, but car will still not tick over !!
Looking around and the green connection is for pre cat and blue is for connection after the cat.
I have spoke to a few people who say it makes no difference ? Anyone think different?
So to date, no EML light and no code, but no tickover.
Anyone have a match
#34: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:12 pm ---- Hi
Put car in for a peugeot diagnostic system which indicated the relay for the fan were not working. Managed to locate them and when went to remove them some of the connections had snapped off the relay, and the other wires had rotted back about 50mm ! Put new relays on and ------Diagnostic then came up with the MAP not working. Last straw now, a new MAP ordered. fingers crossed it will sort it. Can not be many more sensors on there !
#35: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:55 pm ---- Put new MAP sensor in
and
The same
Still will not tick over. Lost now
#36: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:38 am ---- Just changed the throttle body and removed all errors. It still will not tick over ! However if I remove the servo pipe it will. Is there any stops on the body for tickover adjustment or is it all done by ecu?
#37: Re: tick over when cold Author: Oafie, Location: Glyn CeiriogPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:17 pm ---- on your's the tick over is controlled by a stepper motor which is on the back of the throttle body,
which is then controlled by the ecu.
#38: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:08 am ---- I understand the tick over is controlled by the ECU, however if the ECU is receiving a signal from a sender that is not correct I think it will send wrong signal to the throttle body.
I have changed loads of things and it will still not tick over.
#39: Re: tick over when cold Author: n17ele, Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:07 pm ---- Managed to get a 2nd hand throttle body, fitted and no difference. Still will not tick over when cold. It will tick over if I hold my foot on accelerator (it will tick over at any revs then). Once the temperature goes to normal tick over is ok.
Any more ides ? there is no stepper motor on this engine
I have changes the plugs, air filer, thermostat, temperature sender, fan relays ,throttle body and pre cat Lambda.
Car runs really nice once warm
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but what is BSI and TB stand for ?
