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Forums › Tuning, Modification & Legal › Project Cars › Project sleeper |
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 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:09 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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Did some data logging earlier. I reviewed some of the data and on occasions the coolant temperature suddenly dips. The car was run for ten minutes then switched off for 10 mins. The car was then driven for another 10 mins then sat for 10 mins. Then I drove the car and it did the cutting out problem where the engine dies and the rev counter dips to zero.
Analysing the data from the Omex it shows the coolant temperature dropping to very low levels. The lowest was 6 degrees, half a second later the temp was 90 degrees. After the engine was driven so far there's no way the temperature was that low, A similar thing happened a few times and can be seen on the blue lower line on the picture. All the dips are where the low temperatures are recorded. I can see how this could cause a cut out but when the engine is still turning I don't see why the rev counter dips.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Last edited by Edward on Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:50 am; edited 4 times in total
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:33 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 3617
Trade Rating: +9
Location: Under your bed
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It must be adjusting the fuelling to compensate for the 'lower' temperate do you think?
In which case the problem would not seem to be the cutting out, but either a faulty sensor, or some sort of surge somewhere causing a spike and interfering with ECU readings?
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:38 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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From looking at all the other sensor outputs though it just seems like it's the coolant sensor that's spitting out strange numbers. Unless there is some other logical reason for the sesnor to be showing low numbers it must point to the sensor being faulty. I never liked the look of it anyway.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:28 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex
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I am not keen on crimp connectors for sensors..... nice to see your upgrade will be solder conections, That is a sure fire way of good signals 
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:31 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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So what coolant sensor do you use Mac?
It might be interesting to see the frequency of the temperature drop offs when the car is running normally - i.e. before it has got to the cut out stage.
I'm sure fitting a proper loom will cost a few quid but it's got to be worth it. I imagine I'll have to take the thermostat housing off to get it tapped for the Omex temp sensor so there's a bit of hassle involved too. So where's the best place for the Omex in the car? I quite like the idea of it sitting in the pocket at the back of the centre console behind the alarm button but the wiring would be quite long (not too big a problem) and although the car isn't parked anywhere but in the garage it's best not to leave it exposed.
I also fitted a silicone blue vacuum hose yesterday just to make sure the existing scruffy rubber hose wasn't a potential air leak problem. Anymore blue silicone and it might start looking a bit tacky.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:39 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2801
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Barry, South Wales
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| Edward wrote: |
So what coolant sensor do you use Mac?
It might be interesting to see the frequency of the temperature drop offs when the car is running normally - i.e. before it has got to the cut out stage.
I'm sure fitting a proper loom will cost a few quid but it's got to be worth it. I imagine I'll have to take the thermostat housing off to get it tapped for the Omex temp sensor so there's a bit of hassle involved too. So where's the best place for the Omex in the car? I quite like the idea of it sitting in the pocket at the back of the centre console behind the alarm button but the wiring would be quite long (not too big a problem) and although the car isn't parked anywhere but in the garage it's best not to leave it exposed.
I also fitted a silicone blue vacuum hose yesterday just to make sure the existing scruffy rubber hose wasn't a potential air leak problem. Anymore blue silicone and it might start looking a bit tacky. |
Would be good to have it on show so to speak 
I'm glad your now finding out whats wrong, prehaps soon it will be running like a dream for you
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:47 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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It's on permanent show in my garage because the bonnet is open all the time due to it's unreliability problems!
At least so far it's consistently and predictably unreliable under the same conditions.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:36 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex
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will reply in full when I get home....away at present
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:20 am |
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Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Maybe the wires from the coolant sensor picks up interference along the way to the Omex?
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:28 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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They could be...who knows...I'm just going to have the delve into the loom and what's there.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:58 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex
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Sorry for the delay in replying, I use the standard peugeot temp sensor, I feel that they think its good enough for a production cars so its good enough for me.
I also have a smaller one tapped into the bleed screw hole for my digital dash. In your case you may need to fit the omex sensor as previously discussed and calibrate it to the ECU. Have you found out the make of the Ecosse fitted sensor?
What cable connector has your ECU got to connect the laptop?
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:59 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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There's been quite a bit of emailling Omex this week. I must say their customer service is very impressive.
They asked for a copy of the data logging and the map calibration (thankfully it wasn't locked) and they agree the coolant temperature fluctuating isn't right.
Best thing is they even did some mapping adjustments to it to help it run better. They've lowered the default air inlet temp setting which was fixed at 25 degrees and lowered it to 20 degrees. This will sort itself when an inlet air temp sensor is fitted.
They also adjusted the ignition timing at idle and changed the scatter spark idle control slightly so hopefully that may help with the idle problem. They have also reduced the ignition timing at closed throttle at around 3000rpm to see if ignition timing is holding the engine speed up.
A few other companies could certainly learn a thing or two about the support Omex provide.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:19 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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| macj wrote: |
Sorry for the delay in replying, I use the standard peugeot temp sensor, I feel that they think its good enough for a production cars so its good enough for me.
I also have a smaller one tapped into the bleed screw hole for my digital dash. In your case you may need to fit the omex sensor as previously discussed and calibrate it to the ECU. Have you found out the make of the Ecosse fitted sensor?
What cable connector has your ECU got to connect the laptop? |
Can you think of a reason the Omex can't be plugged into the standard sensor? Mine is just there to operate the dash guage but why can't it operate the Omex too?
So yours just works the opposite way round to mine...I don't know what make the sensor is.
I've just bought a serial to USB convertor that plugs straight into the laptop.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:27 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex
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OK
I see no reason you cant use it for both. I would try using it for just the ECU, get it working and then see if it will run in parallel with your guage.
alternatively get an OEM sensor fitted in the casting and run them seperately, Got a feeling it may sort out your issues.
On a seperate note, I got MOT tested yesterday, Emissions were over double the limit at idle but the lambda was spot on across the range. A little tweak and passed with no advisories.... very happy
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:42 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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I think I'll invest in one of the Omex temp sensor. At least it will look the part too.
When it comes to MOT I dread to think what mine will be pumping out. Were all your emissions a problem or just certain ones? Mine only just scraped through before the TB's were fitted. I don't think the 200 cell cat helped much.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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