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 Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:51 am |
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Joined: Jan 31, 2013
Posts: 91
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire
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Ive got a 1.6 16v xsi - recently lowered by 35mm which sits fine when there's nobody sat in the back. However, when it has it looks awful & feels very bumpy.
It has got brand new standard OE KYB (oil filled) shocks which i dont think are quite up to the job of dealing with the weight. I've read that gas shocks seem to be the way to go & wondered if anyone could advise which ones?
Does a 'shortened damper' mean it will sit lower? Or just less room to compress? Dont want to spend a fortune. Has anybody tried the apex?
APEX-7069100 (or eurocar parts number: ECP Part #: 975735071)
Would changing the torsion bars from 19.5mm to 20mm make enough difference to make it worthwhile?
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:39 am |
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Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 494
Trade Rating: +4
Location: Maidstone
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in my xsi iv lowered it 60mm - 70mm using Pi springs and shocks, they are cheap and work a treat.
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| Iv had:
1.1 106 - 1.4 206 sport - 206 GTi180 - Subaru impreza wrx - 1.6 206 XSI
Now : GTi 180 again - Build thread | |
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:44 am |
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Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 494
Trade Rating: +4
Location: Maidstone
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actually i just read your post again, if you dont want it bumpy then dont get them lol. they are quite stiff
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| Iv had:
1.1 106 - 1.4 206 sport - 206 GTi180 - Subaru impreza wrx - 1.6 206 XSI
Now : GTi 180 again - Build thread | |
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:59 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 5400
Trade Rating: +105
Location: Stafford
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Shortened dampers just means the piston rod is shorter, so when under the same load the piston is not compressed as much (so more room to the bump stops)
As far as I know you can't get shortened rear shocks for a 206, just uprated ones, not unless they are expensive or custom jobs anyway.
I can't quite work out what the issue is just by reading your post, obviously sitting in the car would be better to understand. What are you trying to achieve by lowering it? As getting cheaper 'sport' shocks like spax, apex etc will just make the ride stiffer. The more you spend the more that has generally been invested in development trying to get the maximum performance characteristics whilst maintaining a comfortable - ish ride.
Lowering it by any amount on standard dampers will always make it worse (even if it isn't really noticeable) as they will have been designed for that specific ride height.
Any sort of aftermarket gas shocks will probably improve the situation but it's difficult to say without knowing exactly what you want out of it.
Thicker torsion bars are the same as stiffer springs, so the ride will be even more bumpy.
But in general any sort of lowering / aftermarket suspension components will make the ride more uncomfortable than standard.
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:07 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 5400
Trade Rating: +105
Location: Stafford
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Re read it a bit about it sitting lower, was only think about ride quality before
Shocks will not affect ride height (at least not more than a couple of mm when stationary)
Only torsion bar adjustment will alter the height
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:21 pm |
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Joined: Jan 31, 2013
Posts: 91
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire
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Ok, apologies if it sounds a little confusing.
Basically I want to reduce the rear suspension travel as it 'sags' & 'bounces' when Ive got people in the back.
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:40 pm |
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Joined: Oct 25, 2012
Posts: 71
Trade Rating: 0
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I replaced the front shocks and rear with Kyb, I hated them, never again. I kept the front on but replaced the rear to my old OEM oil shocks, so much better.
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:46 am |
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Joined: Jan 31, 2013
Posts: 91
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire
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Achillez: Yeah I think the rears definitely need replacing but feel they are going to need to be tougher than OEM. From what Ive read/heard gas shocks seem to be the only way forward.
Harry: The torsion bars confuse me. But I can say is that they have been adjusted by 1 notch which seems to = 35-40mm. It sits a tiny bit lower than the front which had 35mm lowering springs put on.
My aim is to try & keep the car sitting level with or without people in it.
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:33 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 5400
Trade Rating: +105
Location: Stafford
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The torsion bars are basically springs, but act under torsion force instead of compression
The notch thing isn't advised as it exposes the axle pins to moisture. Best way is to just remove both bars and adjust the height the arm sits at - but that's another discussion.
It's ok I see what you mean now, you have two choices really. You will never stop the suspension travel distance with shock absorbers - that will only be achieved with thicker torsion bars. But stiffer shocks will absorb the force from the torsion bars more effectively stopping the bouncing effect and instead converting it into a much harsher ride (so bumpy, as appose to bouncy).
In regards to the cars ride height it will always reduce with weight. The only way to stop that is with thicker torsion bars. You may find stiff shocks help but that's most likely a coincidence, that's not what they are designed to do.
In my opinion replacing torsion bars for anything but trying to gain absolute maximum suspension performance is a waste of time.
Hope that helps.
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:56 am |
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Joined: Jan 31, 2013
Posts: 91
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire
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Thanks Harry that makes things a lot clearer. So shocks & gti torsion bars! With my car being a 1.6 quicksilver Im told by peugeot that my torsion bars are the 19.5mm (same as xsi) & gti 180's are 20mm. Does 5mm of extra steel really make much difference?
With regards to the adjusting of the torsion bars my mechanic does not understand how anyone can adjust them by anything less than 1 notch stages. I showed him this thread
206info.co.uk/Forums/v...guide.html
& he still didn't get it.
I would like it done properly so if anyone is willing I'll pay! 
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:59 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 5400
Trade Rating: +105
Location: Stafford
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Not too sure on the quicksilver, I thought it was just a trim level
5mm would make hell of a difference  but yes 0.5mm increments are noticeable, really doesn't need much material to make a difference. Even dedicated race cars tend to only run 23mm ones.
Short and sweet answer: Ditch the mechanic, after years of having the same conversations with mechanics I've given up explaining it. Had one tell me it was impossible to do it other than the notch method.. (well he didn't know what it was called but that's what it was). The seem to think they know best so isn't worth the hassle.
Where are you located?
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:51 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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Can we have some pictures of this 35mm? Reason I ask is because the bumpstops come into play before the dampers run out of travel.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:10 am |
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Joined: Jan 31, 2013
Posts: 91
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire
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Harry - Ok git 180 torsion bars it is &I shall start investigating! Yeah I think your right & just need to find someone who can do it the proper way! I live in Ledbury, Herefordshire.
Edward: I shall get some on here after Ive worked out how to upload pictures! 
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:16 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 5400
Trade Rating: +105
Location: Stafford
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Yes if you are going to replace the bars 180 or aftermarket ones are the only worthwhile upgrade.
I don't know anyone specific down that way most are in midlands /northants or down south.
Depending on how far you want to travel I could recommend a few (bearing in mind a local garage may charge more than what would just cover the petrol and do a crap job).
It's one of those things that's worth getting it done by someone who understands, can be done in a couple of hours tops if nothing is overly seized.
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:34 am |
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Joined: Jan 31, 2013
Posts: 91
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ledbury, Herefordshire
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Yeah I totally agree. I do want it done properly as I really don't want to be rear complete rear axles. Distance isn't a major issue as I feel the benefit will out weight the cost. Are you thinking of fellow 206 enthusiasts?
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