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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:25 pm |
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Joined: Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Wales
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Hi all
Been having an issue with the front brakes on my 2004 1.4 206. Having read lots and tried various things I am now unsure which way to go next to try and resolve the issue. I have explained below what has happened and what I have tried (sorry for the length!) to try and explain in full:
A few months ago it passed its MOT. The very next day the front passenger side brakes started making a scraping noise. How was that possible I thought? The brakes are surely checked on the MOT? Anyway I checked all the pads and 3 of them were fine, but 1 was down to the metal.
Couldn't see any obvious reason why one had worn so much more than the rest but having done the pads before I just did them again with the plan to keep a check on them and see how it goes.
Everything seemed fine and I confess I forgot to check up on them again as a result. A few weeks later I was doing a long journey and after travelling on the motorway for about 30 mins I noticed a very loud squeal coming from the front driver’s side. I slowed right down as I thought the wheel was about to come off but when I wound the window down to listen, I could clearly smell brakes burning. I took the next exit and pulled over to check and the drivers side brakes were almost smoldering. I was in a dilemma whether to carry on driving at all but after a bit of driving round a car park and heavy pressing of the brake pedal, it seemed to clear and the noise went away. I continued with my journey and other than an occasional squeal, it didn't seem so bad.
When I got back home I checked the pads. One of the pads on the drivers side was worn very unevenly around the edges, almost rounded rather than the square edges of the others.
I then remembered that one of the new pads had been very tight when fitting so wondered if that was the problem. I tried refitting them but the one was still very tight compared to the others. In the end I decided to swap the two on the drivers side for a pair from the 3 ‘old’ ones that I’d previously removed to see if that made a difference. The one was still tighter than the other but not as tight as the ‘new’ ones.
Anyway, again everything was fine for a short while until I went on another long journey (holiday with the family) and the loud squealing and burning brakes started again.
Basically it has not gone away since then. I have read lots and have tried cleaning everything up a few times now. This weekend I had a bit more time so tried something I read on these forums by pushing the piston out and in several times to try and free it along with spending a lot longer wire brushing and sanding everything I could again. I cleaned everything up and applied a more liberal coating of copper grease to the piston surface and the back of the pads. I had read about greasing the piston with brake fluid but am not sure what that means as it has a rubber shield and so don’t know what they are suggesting to do (grease the rubber or take the rubber off and grease the actual metal underneath?)
Anyway I took it for another long run yesterday. It certainly took longer before the squeal started and it’s not as loud, but it is still there and now in addition, there is a new very high pitched constant squeal that is there even when the loud squeal isn't there.
Some things are the same though. When I brake all the noise stops. If I turn the wheel even slightly to the left it all stops. It is worse when on long trips but also does it when just popping to the shops sometimes.
The strangest thing is that the original issue with the one pad being worn excessively was on the passenger side and ever since then the problems are all on the drivers side?
But anyway before I waste any more time, does anyone have a more specific idea what this could be or what else I could try? Any advice on this greasing the piston too would be a big help as I am happy to have a go at most things but I am only a novice in terms of knowledge etc.
Thank you for reading and any ideas or suggestions will be very greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:50 pm |
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Joined: Jul 24, 2014
Posts: 111
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Glyn Ceiriog
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hi Mike, when you changed your pads did you check the piston sliders? the bits which you bolt the caliper to.
if one of them is sticking or seized it pulls the caliper on an angle and that will cause brake squeal.
take the caliper off and try to push them in and out. if they're ok then check if there's play in your wheel bearing because that will do the same thing.
as for the pads being tight to fit just check if there's no crap on the pad mountings.
I,ve had it before with pattern parts that they're not quite the same as the originals so I've had to dress them slightly with a grinder to make them fit properly. it could be that the paint on them is to thick thus making them slightly larger.
hope this helps.
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:52 am |
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Joined: Aug 22, 2013
Posts: 87
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Morecambe
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Take the wheel off and spin the disk round seeing if you can replicate the squeal. You might have a warped disk that's causing the pads to wear quicker.
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:59 am |
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Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 495
Trade Rating: +1
Location: huddersfield
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Is your servo working properly, test by pumping the brake pedal till it becomes solid, then start the engine, resting your foot slighty on the pedal, the pedal should slowly go down.
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:39 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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This sounds like sliders or pad sticking in mounting. What happens is that the pads drag slightly. At long high speed runs the heat builds up. The pad and disk expand slightly due to the heat and the pad is forced tighter and that generates more heat, the heat expands pads and disks and that generates more heat and the vicious circle is repeated.
Check all the metal mounting components and scrape off any / all rust. Any metal to metal contact parts lubricate with a very thin smear of copper based grease but be very careful that noting gets onto the braking surfaces.
The pads must move easily in their mountings. if they don't you will repeat your problem.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:49 pm |
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Joined: Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Wales
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Wow! Thanks all for taking the time to reply, very much appreciated. responses as below...
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:56 pm |
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Joined: Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Wales
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| Oafie wrote: |
hi Mike, when you changed your pads did you check the piston sliders? the bits which you bolt the caliper to.
if one of them is sticking or seized it pulls the caliper on an angle and that will cause brake squeal.
take the caliper off and try to push them in and out. if they're ok then check if there's play in your wheel bearing because that will do the same thing.
as for the pads being tight to fit just check if there's no crap on the pad mountings.
I,ve had it before with pattern parts that they're not quite the same as the originals so I've had to dress them slightly with a grinder to make them fit properly. it could be that the paint on them is to thick thus making them slightly larger.
hope this helps. |
I didn't check the sliders originally but did this weekend. I'm not an expert but I could easily move them both in and out without any effort to presume that is ok?
The reason I went back to the old pads was because they were a less tight fit. I did sand off the paint on each end of the pads and gave the metal where each end sits a real good wire brushing and sanding. It didn't seem to make much difference so maybe a grinder is the way forward.
Stupid question I know but how is the best way to check for play in the wheel bearing please?
Thanks for your help so far
Mike
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:59 pm |
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Joined: Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Wales
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| Seatock789 wrote: |
| Take the wheel off and spin the disk round seeing if you can replicate the squeal. You might have a warped disk that's causing the pads to wear quicker. |
Thanks
would spinning by hand be fast enough to test this?
The discs were replaced after its 2013 MOT at the garage and look ok so I'd sort of ruled them out, but hadn't thought about any warping so thanks again
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:03 pm |
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Joined: Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Wales
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| DREWDEN wrote: |
| Is your servo working properly, test by pumping the brake pedal till it becomes solid, then start the engine, resting your foot slighty on the pedal, the pedal should slowly go down. |
Just been out and tried this now and it does slowly go down on starting it up. Thanks for the suggestion though as another thing to rule out I guess
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:13 pm |
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Joined: Mar 09, 2012
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Wales
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| kandlbarrett wrote: |
This sounds like sliders or pad sticking in mounting. What happens is that the pads drag slightly. At long high speed runs the heat builds up. The pad and disk expand slightly due to the heat and the pad is forced tighter and that generates more heat, the heat expands pads and disks and that generates more heat and the vicious circle is repeated.
Check all the metal mounting components and scrape off any / all rust. Any metal to metal contact parts lubricate with a very thin smear of copper based grease but be very careful that noting gets onto the braking surfaces.
The pads must move easily in their mountings. if they don't you will repeat your problem. |
What you describe there certainly fits with the problem I am getting. As just posted above, I did give all the rusty bits a real good going over but I would not say either of the pads moved 'easily'. One goes in with a bit of a bit of gentle persuasion but the other needs a tap or three from whatever is to hand (Screwdriver, wrench etc)
I guess from what I have read here then that the fact it is very tight could well be part of the issue even if not the whole issue?
I guess I need to attack them with a grinder to shave a bit off and then see what happens from there?
Oh and when you say metal to metal contact parts, would that include the brake pad edges and the mountings they sit in?
Many thanks for your help already
Cheers
Mike
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:07 pm |
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Joined: Jul 24, 2014
Posts: 111
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Glyn Ceiriog
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Hi Mike, so the slides are free and not seized which is good, so it sounds like the pads are sticking, juas grab your grinder and very carefully grind the area on the part which slots into the caliper carrier, I call that part the ears, don't go mad with the grinder, just take enough off so the pads slot in nice without having to hit them with anything.
to check your wheel bearing, jack the car up but don't loosen the wheel bolts, grab the tyre at 12 and 6 o clock and push the top of the wheel with one hand while pulling the bottom of the wheel with the other hand, if there is any play in the bearing you will feel movement in the wheel, don't worry if there a tiny amount but any more and the wheel bearing could be on it's way out. good luck and don't go to mad with the grinder.
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:05 am |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Don't do this with a grinder please. A small metal file maybe but not a grinder.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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