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Forums › Tuning, Modification & Legal › Project Cars › Project sleeper |
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 Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:09 pm |
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Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 32
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
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Existenz, change the crapy koni dampers for some bilies. The difference is enormous.
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:07 pm |
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Joined: Jan 05, 2013
Posts: 114
Trade Rating: 0
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I'm really happy with them for what they are 
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:56 am |
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Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 32
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
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| existenz wrote: |
| I'm really happy with them for what they are |
Don't know why you are complaining on the soft rear then, if you are so satisfied.  With bilies it is a whole different car
Ask forum member =ZiAn= about the 21mm torsion bars. He has 21mm torsion bars and he tracked the car, so could probably told you how the car handles and how big of a difference it is. He has bilies also.
Here is his topic:
www.206info.co.uk/Foru...t=418.html
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:28 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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Dampers don't control pitching under braking and acceleration. 21mm bars are fine for road use especially with a bigger rear ARB.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:12 am |
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Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 32
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
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You would be surprised. 
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:24 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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They delay the movement or slow it down but that's all. They don't reduce body roll once settled into a corner either.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:20 pm |
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Joined: Jan 05, 2013
Posts: 114
Trade Rating: 0
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The front is just fine. But under acceleration and tight corners with bumps and some uphill parts I always feel (and see on photos) that the rear really need some stiffer torsion bars, as a large part of the wheel diesappears under the arches. And I think 21mm might be the way to go with my setup, unless I am going for Grp N Bilsteins or something of that sort. It should greatly improve acceleration, especially in combination with the Quaife ATB.
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:12 am |
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Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 32
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
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I'm not denying that larger diameter torsion bars won't help, I always encourage people to go stiffer if they have changed front springs, but the dampers play a huge role here, and driving both koni and bilstein equiped cars, I can say that over bumps and turn-in, the bilies are in a whole different league.
Be careful when choosing the rear torsion bar/arb combination. Our experience is that when you go over 21mm torsion bars and 24+mm arb, the rear inside wheel always tends to loose contact and lock under braking. Torsion beam in this matter is really tricky.
I disadvise Quaife ATB in any form of motorsport. Maybe some people can sense the difference, but with fitting this ATB to many cars, and driving them, I can honestly say that it is not worth the money. There is so little difference, if any at all (it also depends a little on the suspension setup), that in my opinion it is money thrown away. Better to put money in sorting the suspension properly (camber/caster top mounts and suspension bushings etc.).
This ATB is not a real torsen diff, well it doesn't act like it. Try a Honda Civic with OEM Honda torsen diff and a civic with Quaife ATB. You won't believe that both are torsen. The oem one acts more like a plate diff when mid corner accelerating, and that is how it should be, while the Quaife is more like open diff. I was really disappointed when I first tested it and since then, every car we put it in didn't feel anything like it's supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, the quality of manufacturing is really good compared to others, it always fits like an oem part, but for less money you can get a plated diff from Gripper, which also has a lifetime warranty and does its job. It doesn't fit without a hassle though, in any gearbox that we fitted (BE,MA,JC5,...)
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:48 am |
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Joined: Jan 05, 2013
Posts: 114
Trade Rating: 0
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As I said it works good. It's still a street car. In case I go for a new suspension setup, I'd go for a race suspension anyway. I'd love to go for 22mm bars, but that would be too much for the front springs I guess. So I think 21mm is a good compromise.
But right now, I am simply looking for a way to make my rear stiffer
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:42 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2505
Trade Rating: +19
Location: West mids
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| Edward wrote: |
The blue covers? Yes they came with them.
Back together now...forgot the big washers at the top of the damper under the top mount...so it's all coming apart again.
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Bit stage as this. When I removed all my strut setup to replace the springs my washer was under my BIG nut on the top side of the top mount? So is your nut just onto the top mount with no washer?
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:47 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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I think there are two washers. One below and above the top mount beneath the nut.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:03 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2505
Trade Rating: +19
Location: West mids
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I think so mate
Just been down to the pug garage on me dinner and orderd 2new top and 2new bottom washers and 6new top mount bolts. But they've got to do some ringing around as they don't stock them and come in packs of 20.
70
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:07 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2505
Trade Rating: +19
Location: West mids
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Another thing I was going to ask was with the b8 dampers being a short shaft did you have to get a shorter profile spring? Or would my new pro lines fit straight onto the b8? Although my b6's went any way near as bad as yours I'd still like to change them in a year or so.
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:36 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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The shorter damper internals just mean the car can be lowered without the dampers bottoming out as easily. Bumps stops on these dampers are internal unlike most dampers which use a big rubber external Bumpstop.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:49 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2505
Trade Rating: +19
Location: West mids
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Got ya. so it's nothing to do with the physical size of the shock. Just alows you to go lower if you need to.
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