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Forums › Tuning, Modification & Legal › Project Cars › Project sleeper |
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 Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:46 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3327
Trade Rating: +9
Location: Ring y0
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In relation to using that airbox and shortened trumpets over using 90mm trumpets and a sausage filter. The last section refers to putting the airbox on after it has been set up with 90mm trumpets;
I can't say I like the idea of shortening the tract and enclosing the trumpets without testing to establish the effects and re-mapping if necessary (quite likely to be necessary). I'm sure it'll still be a quick engine, but potentially not as good as it could be and if the map is off, it won't drive as well and could be over-fuelling. Not being negative or anything, just trying to be informative.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:01 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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1) You can't fit 90mm long trumpets as they'd hit the radiator
2) It's a road car so needs filtered cool air
3) The airbox is the only way of achieving that
4) It's designed to fit the space in the 206 so it's the best there is
5) I'm sure it is compromised compared to having no airbox and maybe moving the radiator but with the aircon still fitted so that's not an option.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:06 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 377
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Reading
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I remember when TMS were still in business there was an option of a lowered rad which a few people had. This is what they used so the could use a sausage filter rather than the airbox.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:10 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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Is that actually the cheaper option though? It the filter is getting air straight from below the bonnet it will also suck up rain water.
Everything on a road car has some sort of compromise and I'm not going to trade safe cool, dry air for a little more power.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:10 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3327
Trade Rating: +9
Location: Ring y0
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So I need shorter trumpets? Or need to get a new rad?
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:13 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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What's to say the inlet length isn't perfect as it is? Longmans designed it and I very much doubt they would have settled for anything with serious downsides.
There is only limited space at the front of the engine bay and you have to do the best with what's there.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:24 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 377
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Reading
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I have no idea which is better to be honest. I know Longmans did a lot of work on their 206 and if they went with the airbox then it was a pretty good option in my eyes.
The difference between airbox or lowered rad and sausage filter could be negligable. I know the people with lower rads also fitted a kind of metal airscoop above the rad which also reduced heat soak from the rad.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:43 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 155
Trade Rating: +2
Location: West Yorkshire
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Hi, dont want to trail through all 30 pages but how much BHP and torque do u have now and how much has the ecosse mods set u back?
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:07 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2505
Trade Rating: +19
Location: West mids
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i think that eds set up is spot on thats the way it was made to be thats why im doing that air box mod as its the easyest way in my eyes
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:45 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex
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Yuo have the best option for road use Edward. I have had to fit a Toyota Corolla radiator as it is longer and lower but retains the same pipe setup. I had to modify the vent pipe header tank though.
Bear in mind that I deal with dust and water ingress on a stage so I have several options of filtering available. I have an airbox for potentially wet venues with a cold air feed and a 600 series filter with Jenvey deep backplate to take the longer trumpets.
Fitting shorter trumpets usually only alters the torque figures a bit
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:35 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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Got the air temperature sensor yesterday from Ecosse.
I just have to decide where to fit it. I'd like to fit it in the side of the airbox just near the PAS pump because it would need really short wiring to the ECU...
...but Ecosse have wisely advised me to install it downstream of the breather pipe, I guess to stop it oiling up. So I think the best place might be inside the standard air filter box under the air filter. It's a bit further downstream than I want but it's the ideal place where there is plenty of space and a flat surface to drill in t.
Before I fit it though I want to order some wiring bits such as the braiding I've fitted to the temperature sensor wiring because I want to replace these connections that go to the throttle position sensor. They are the sort of thing I'd use to wire a stereo with.
They're not waterproof and while the car isn't going to be used in wet weather, I'm going to fit a 3 way Superseal connector like all other engine bay connections use. No I won't be removing the TPS sensor to fit it as this will ruin the settings in the map.
I also gave it a clean underneath. There was quite a bit of oil underneath and was on both front and back of the engine. I also used the new clips to fix the PAS pipes back in place. Looks much neater now.
A quick look up at the bottom of the throttle bodies shows how tight it is between the airbox and radiator. I also fitted some cables ties to the bottom of the airbox to hold the lid in place. The bolts used elsewhere are impossible to fit without removing the radiator.
I also noticed this extra lambda boss on the exhaust before the cat. What's this been used for? Has a wideband lambda been fitted while the mapping was done? Is this normal?
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:47 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3327
Trade Rating: +9
Location: Ring y0
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I'd say it's pretty normal to fit a wideband for the mapping!
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:07 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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I thought they'd have used the signal from the standard lambdas via the ECU into the mapping PC to set it up.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:12 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 468
Trade Rating: +6
Location: Telford
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looking good edward, need to give mine a good clean underneath, had a look today and its abit oily 
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:40 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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Oily can prevent rust though!
Went for a bit of a run today in it and it's got to be said it's a quick little car. It's just a shame the gearing is as tall as it is. Some shorter gearing would give better access to the power band while doing sensible speeds.
Also the clutch seems to feel rough through the pedal when it gets hot. It's a brand new Sachs clutch that's only been on the car since November. I'm wondering if the release bearing has got too hot while on the rolling road.
I might invest in an engine support bar and whip the gearbox off myself. No sign of oil underneath either.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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