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Forums › Tuning, Modification & Legal › Project Cars › Project sleeper |
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 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:05 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 3262
Trade Rating: +18
Location: Plymouth
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Looks awesome Ed, looking at the engine bay you wouldn't think this car is 10yrs old. Once the engine is sorted and the clutch replaced, any other plans for it?
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:19 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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I've been driving it a bit more recently and the clutch is actually OK. Does feel a bit creaky when hot but it's nothing really worth changing.
Shopping list for next spring is the ITG filter, 90mm trumpets and the shorter radiator. Might have to think about a small oil cooler too.
Shorter gearing is a must too. 70mph in 2nd gear is silly really and if it maxed at 50mph in 2nd it would be substantially faster.
This winter I might take the dampers off and refurb them because they are looking a bit corroded. Then I'd like to strip the rear axle and change the bearings. There's nothing wrong with the existing ones but I just fancy stripping it all down and replacing anything that can wear out. Might get all the brackets zinc coated.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:04 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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All finished now...all the loom round the back of the engine to the speed sensor and oil temp sensor has been covered in new tubing, proper T pieces used too.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:27 pm |
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Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 2596
Trade Rating: +17
Location: North West Wales
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Looks like it really has come on since the beggining. Just a shame Ecosse only did a half arsed job and you had to sort out there mess. But oh well I geuss it gives you a better understanding of your car.
Whats it like to drive now? Whats it like on fuel?
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:31 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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It drives fine. Quick enough when it gets some revs. Really need some longer trumpets to boost the torque though.
No idea what it does MPG wise but it's not mega thirsty. I'm sure at full throttle it's thirsty but you can't give it full throttle for long.
At the moment though the best roads for driving tend to be bumpy roads which slows the car down. The most fun is had when driving it hard at 60mph+ which can't be done on bumpy roads. So it's become more of a straight line, smooth road car.
I really want to look into how manufacturers make cars with good steering feel. Even when getting out of the Jetta into the 206 it highlights how poor the 206 steering is. There is hardly any feel at all which really dents confidence in the corners. The driving position doesn't help.
Anyway, tax ran out on 30th November so it's SORNed for six months. Time to move the battery, paint the corroded Bilstein dampers, replaces all the nuts and bolts underneath, buy a short radiator and longer trumpets etc.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:42 pm |
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Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 2596
Trade Rating: +17
Location: North West Wales
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Fair enough  How come you cant give it full throttle for long? Just run of straight road too quick?
I know what you mean about the steering, my 1.4 is terrible its not helped by the way it snatches in some corners something isnt right at the moment.
Ah right, winter hibernation then. Should look good when it's all done. Do you think there will ever be a time when you get the car to a point and think it's finished. All thats left to do is start it up and drive?
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:45 pm |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11518
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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Peugeot steering has been crap since they launched the 406.
206 isnt bad but its nothing like an older Peugeot for steering feel.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:20 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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| LeeThr wrote: |
| Fair enough How come you cant give it full throttle for long? Just run of straight road too quick? |
2nd gear is good for 70mph. 3rd gear is almost 100mph. So there are 3 gears for getting best performance. So speeds are getting silly, too silly for twisty country lanes. 4th and 5th gear are for tootling along because to get best performance in these gears the speeds would be pretty high.
| LeeThr wrote: |
I know what you mean about the steering, my 1.4 is terrible its not helped by the way it snatches in some corners something isnt right at the moment. |
Everything on mine with all new parts is fine but it still tramlines on some road surfaces.
| LeeThr wrote: |
| Do you think there will ever be a time when you get the car to a point and think it's finished. All thats left to do is start it up and drive? |
It's done a few miles this year, since Oct 2010 it's done 700 miles! In the last 5 weeks it has done 200 miles! No idea how it's done that many! It is actually quite nice to drive, it's just its natural territory should be country lanes but the rev range of the engine takes onto the quicker, better surfaced roads.
It will never be finished, it's not brand new and I'm trying to make a new car out of one that's nearly 11 years old.
Put it this way before spring the car needs/wants the following:
Shorter radiator
90mm trumpets
ITG filter
Throttle linkage
Respray dampers
New nuts and bolts for front suspension and brakes
Sump removal to fix oil leak that's been there since you know who had it.
Battery moved to boot
Longer term there's more work:
Think there's a small gearbox oil leak.
Moderately lightened flywheel
Shorter final drive gearing
Exhaust manifold wrapping
Small oil cooler
Even longer term I'd like to go for an engine with uprated internals and one that I know it perfect in terms of compression ratio and camshaft timing etc. I'd happily settle for a GTi 180 bottom end as they can handle 7500rpm as standard. Will a 138 head fit a 180 bottom end though?
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:40 pm |
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Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 2596
Trade Rating: +17
Location: North West Wales
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Ouch thats some pretty long winded gearing. Would be better suited to some shorter ratio's.
Yer most of mines 10 year old original parts with over 100k of millage on them.
Sounds an interesting mixture.
I would love a project car but just cant afford it right now.
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:13 am |
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Joined: Nov 01, 2010
Posts: 74
Trade Rating: 0
Location: oxford
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just been through all 46 pages, really feel for you with all the problems! ive almost completed my throttle body build on my saxo and im hoping i dont have this much trouble, my housemate works at pug1off so im lucky i get to take advantage of his skills for free I;be also got red jenveys, never seen another set of red ones before lol
im running a predator ecu which thankfully is plug and play in the saxo so dont have to mess about with any wiring to make it fully standalone, also means all i have to do is cable tie the air temperature sensor to the bulk head in front of the trumpets nice and easy for the time being, will hopefully make a bracket up for it
whats it like working in the 206 bay? looks really tight compared to the space in the saxo bay, a lot of scuffed knuckles? lol
also what was the final bhp figure you achieved? sorry i think i missed it
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:43 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex
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Good call on the internal mods Ed, I opted to keep the 138 bottom end as Charlie reckons with a balance it will be safe at 8500rpm and as we only need 7500 there is a safety margin.
I would keep your entire engine together and just change the internals for 12.5:1 forged pistons and rods, this in effect gives you a 180 bottom end with forged rods, I would try the 4.2:1 CWP from the berlingo. 
I worked out my whole engine mods around the standard cams and arrived at the final build state I have now.
balanced bottom end with lightened flywheel (2kg off)
forged 12.5:1 Wossner pistons
PEC rods with ARP bolts
race spec shells
worked cylinder head with standard valves (runs out of air at 7500 due to cams)
Jenvey 45mm throttle bodies
The most important thing for me was the torque figure (190+ft/lb)
This engine really pulls at lower revs now
Keep up the good work....
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:58 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2505
Trade Rating: +19
Location: West mids
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I would of liked to go forged pistons at the time of mine but at the time I couldn't justifi the cost for the gain. But that's really the only thing I could of done extra on mine. And would be a bit pricey to have it all re done now.
Any ways Paul I can certainly say you have done a bitter job than what the company who did it in the 1st place. I should bring mine to you to fit the air box haha.
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:09 am |
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Joined: Mar 03, 2010
Posts: 2635
Trade Rating: +11
Location: Black Country Ay I
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I read the first few pages where Paul summarised getting the car, buying the head, cams, standalone, bodies and exhaust system.. taking it to Ecosse and being disappointed, somewhere in the middle he identifies that Ecosse did a bad job on the ECU, then he taken some time to fix it. I haven't read all 46 pages but thats what I've got of the story ><
Before you said it was lacking mid range, did sorting the ECU help the torque?
Thanks
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:21 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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The mid range torque is probably down to the short inlet trumpets. 157lb ft is not great for the spec of the engine.
The Jenvey website suggests I need an inlet about 420mm long. It's currently about 360mm from trumpet to valve. With the 90mm trumpets it will be approximately 410mm which should be good enough. Ditching the airbox and having the filter in direct airflow should help too.
While is not being driven I thought I'd remove the airbox. I'll have to do something to support the injector wiring when it's finished.
I just hope the ITG back plate and filter will fit especially with the gap down the side of the PAS pump being so tight.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:44 pm |
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Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 133
Trade Rating: 0
Location: coventry
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You could get the backing plate welded to the trumpets just behind the mouths then you should clear the pump with 90mm tumpets. Mine made 171 lb ft with the same inlet set up, im trying electric power so I can run a beter inlet manifold
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