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 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:54 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 973
Trade Rating: +6
Location: Bournemouth/Cardiff
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| macca1411 wrote: |
| panason1c wrote: |
I find it bewildering and frustrating that you seem oblivious to the simplicity of the OP's incident!.............it is sooo obvious that the lady slowed to make a turn and the op was either too close to stop or was not paying attention!!........what part of 'too close' and 'not paying attention' do you not understand? |
How close was the OP to the vehicle? How fast were both vehicles travelling?
Why did the Range Rover make such a late turn? Was there any indication from the Range Rover prior to making the turn? Were the brake lights fully functional on the Range Rover? How slippy was the road? (You may need to work out the coefficient of friction for that one). There are more questions that will arise from the answers to these. When you have answered these questions, then you may be able to put 100% blame onto the OP. Until then keep an open mind and give everyone the benefit of doubt. |
The bottom line, and simple fact, is that good driving includes keeping a sensible distance from the car in front. This should take into account ALL factors - the speed of the vehicle being followed, its choice of turning or not - and if a correct gap was chosen and maintained, it should not have been an issue
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| '98 MGF 1.8i
Team: ex-206 owner
Team: Roof is always down when it's not raining! | |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:28 pm |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2010
Posts: 109
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Redditch
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LOL this forum is always a debate, I might start a thread arguing which day of the week it is see what happens...
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:57 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 4455
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Essex
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It's Monday.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:09 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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who care about the debate? is not me having the crash
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:16 pm |
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 486
Trade Rating: +4
Location: East Sussex
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You could be keeping a safe distance and still crash in to the back of someone.
Example. Following a VERY safe distance, you could get a lorryinn the gap. And the car in front was braking. So i started braked even tho i was vey far away. But the car in front was braking hard as he was tailing the car infront so by the time you then realise the car in front is stopping quicky, u slam your brakes harder and came to a stand still with space left. (bear in mind the car in front has been braking for the whole time and lights showing)
You can leave a a safe distance or a triple safe distance, BUT if the car in front brakes late and hard, unless you judge this in time, your gna end up close to or hitting thr car in front
I have had this a few times on my work journey due to unexpected ques, deers, slow moving vehicles, or just roundabouts/juntions/lights which have tail backs.
Im sure heir are poeple who agree or have experianced similar.
Sorry if it offrnds anyone
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| Abs
Peugeot 206 1.6 Sport (55)
Audi A1 2.0 TDi Sport (14) | |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:18 pm |
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Joined: Jan 05, 2011
Posts: 2985
Trade Rating: +36
Location: North Manchester
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| E5GDM wrote: |
| It's Monday. |
No it's not it's saturday 
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:25 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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| abs06 wrote: |
You could be keeping a safe distance and still crash in to the back of someone.
Example. Following a VERY safe distance, you could get a lorryinn the gap. And the car in front was braking. So i started braked even tho i was vey far away. But the car in front was braking hard as he was tailing the car infront so by the time you then realise the car in front is stopping quicky, u slam your brakes harder and came to a stand still with space left. (bear in mind the car in front has been braking for the whole time and lights showing)
You can leave a a safe distance or a triple safe distance, BUT if the car in front brakes late and hard, unless you judge this in time, your gna end up close to or hitting thr car in front
I have had this a few times on my work journey due to unexpected ques, deers, slow moving vehicles, or just roundabouts/juntions/lights which have tail backs.
Im sure heir are poeple who agree or have experianced similar.
Sorry if it offrnds anyone |
so are you saying you shouldn't leave a safe distance between car because no matter what you did you will end up in someone's a**?
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:52 pm |
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 486
Trade Rating: +4
Location: East Sussex
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No thats not what i was saying. I was pointing out that even by leaving a good gap, you can misjudge the braking of the car infront. We only have the brake lights to tell us the car in front is braking. We dont have anythink to tell us how hard. I know on new cars the hazards flash under hard braking. Which is good.
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| Abs
Peugeot 206 1.6 Sport (55)
Audi A1 2.0 TDi Sport (14) | |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:09 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 5400
Trade Rating: +105
Location: Stafford
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| abs06 wrote: |
| No thats not what i was saying. I was pointing out that even by leaving a good gap, you can misjudge the braking of the car infront. We only have the brake lights to tell us the car in front is braking. We dont have anythink to tell us how hard. I know on new cars the hazards flash under hard braking. Which is good. |
I agree, people are so quick to judge and point the blame.
I was following a van, down a straight road. I couldn't see anything in front of it, not because I was too close, but because the road was straight and the van was huge.
All of a sudden their brake lights come on for about half a second and then it stopped almost instantly like it hit a wall. I slammed my breaks on but still ended up hitting him. It turned out a car had pulled out and 3 cars before the van had piled up.
It's easy to sit here and say looking back, I would have given a massive gap between it but I think some people have their heads up their arses if they think for a second they drive around leaving enough space between the car in front for anything to happen.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:09 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 4455
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Essex
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| abs06 wrote: |
You could be keeping a safe distance and still crash in to the back of someone.
You can leave a a safe distance or a triple safe distance, BUT if the car in front brakes late and hard, unless you judge this in time, your gna end up close to or hitting thr car in front |
The op didn't mention lorries or deer, but even if he did the onus is on the following car to fall back & leave a safe stopping distance that takes into account all scenario's. If you can't 'judge this in time', & hit a vehicle, your probably end up in the wrong.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:16 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 4455
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Essex
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| Harry wrote: |
I was following a van, down a straight road. I couldn't see anything in front of it, not because I was too close, but because the road was straight and the van was huge.
All of a sudden their brake lights come on for about half a second and then it stopped almost instantly like it hit a wall. I slammed my breaks on but still ended up hitting him. It turned out a car had pulled out and 3 cars before the van had piled up.
It's easy to sit here and say looking back, I would have given a massive gap between it but I think some people have their heads up their arses if they think for a second they drive around leaving enough space between the car in front for anything to happen. |
We all drive to close to the vehicle in front sometimes, ie someone pulls into our braking space & we get p**sed off & don't pull back, but your senario above is text book to close, & after all the van managed to stop ok.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:57 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 5400
Trade Rating: +105
Location: Stafford
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| E5GDM wrote: |
| Harry wrote: |
I was following a van, down a straight road. I couldn't see anything in front of it, not because I was too close, but because the road was straight and the van was huge.
All of a sudden their brake lights come on for about half a second and then it stopped almost instantly like it hit a wall. I slammed my breaks on but still ended up hitting him. It turned out a car had pulled out and 3 cars before the van had piled up.
It's easy to sit here and say looking back, I would have given a massive gap between it but I think some people have their heads up their arses if they think for a second they drive around leaving enough space between the car in front for anything to happen. |
We all drive to close to the vehicle in front sometimes, ie someone pulls into our braking space & we get p**sed off & don't pull back, but your senario above is text book to close, & after all the van managed to stop ok. |
 He didn't stop ok he smashed into the car in front, unless you call that ok? . In the same way the car in front smashed into the car in front of that.
I was travelling along, all of a sudden it stopped (and when I say stopped i mean literally stopped from 40 - 0 in a few metres ) it was nasty.
If you still think I was too close, and I should have left enough room for the van to instantly stop when he hit a parked car in front then I can't argue my case any more but I will tell you now I was doing the same distance everyone else was doing - and everyone else does, hell I think it was around the same distance I drove on my driving test.
I'm not assuming my case is like everyone elses. There is a massive difference between the car in front breaking harshly and it stopping instantly.
Especially since it was a van and I couldn't see anything in front of it. If it was a car I would have mostly likely seen the cars in front and breaked normally well in advanced, but I didn't even have any reason to break until the van was still and in that case it was too late.
Imagine this - two cars are driving along and a car pulls out in front of the car in front. When I say pull out I mean a second before the first car passes the junction, and as a result the first car side swipes it.
Are you saying that when the second car inevitably hits it, because let's face it that's what going to happen no ones leaves THAT much room it would be ridiculous that it's the second driver's fault for being too close?
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:07 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 819
Trade Rating: +7
Location: Southampton
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Wow, I just wasted half an hour reading this...
At the end of the day, if the road surface was slippery, it's entirely possible that the Range Rover managed to keep grip and as mentioned before they are much better at gripping in bad conditions than a 206. The OP was clearly unlucky enough not to be able to grip and couldn't pull up in time. If the car in front grips and you can't, a safe stopping distance won't magically make you stop.
Why rip everyone's opinions up? It's only their view, just because you don't agree, doesn't mean you have to be a pr*ck about it.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:13 pm |
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Joined: Sep 05, 2010
Posts: 461
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Somerset
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| AsphericSmile wrote: |
If the car in front grips and you can't, a safe stopping distance won't magically make you stop.
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I nominate the above for the 'Moronic statement of the month award'
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| 1.4 hdi, 206, Year..2003, 100,000 miles
Mercedes, ML270CDI, 2002, 200,000 miles
BMW K1200RS | |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:14 pm |
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 486
Trade Rating: +4
Location: East Sussex
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| E5GDM wrote: |
| If you can't 'judge this in time', & hit a vehicle, your probably end up in the wrong. |
By leaving a safe gap, we give our selves thinking time, hence if the car/van in front brakes, you brake. However if they then suddenly Brake harder, and your still gently braking, by the time
You have realised this, the gap you originally left would have now reduced. Giving you less time to follow suit and slam on your own brakes. Which then sends a shock wave effect down the line of traffic.
On motorways when their is standstill traffic, people joining the back will put their hazards lights on. To warn of he upcaming que. Alerting traffic behind that their is a need to slow down from motorway speeds.
But we cant drive around A roads doing this. Hence newer cars having auto flashing hazard lights under hard braking
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| Abs
Peugeot 206 1.6 Sport (55)
Audi A1 2.0 TDi Sport (14) | |
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