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 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:15 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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My daughter has a W reg 1.4 8V petrol.
The temperature gauge sits on 70. It is not my car so i don't know if this is new but she states that it has always done this.
I haven't investigated yet if the heater is hot or just warm nor if with the engine running but car stationary will it eventually get hot enough for the fan to cut in or how long that takes.
Neither have I done the top hose test - a permanently stuck open thermostat means the top hose will gradually warm with the engine rather than get hot suddenly when the thermostat opens.
The water level is correct; it does not use water and does not overheat.
It could be:-
Thermostat stuck or opening early.
Defective sensor.
Inaccurate gauge.
I am new to Peugeot so a few questions please:-
Once warmed up do these cars temperature gauges usually sit at a steady 90?
Does the gauge on these sit rock steady (most manufacturers "damp" the gauge to sit rock steady at 90 even with engine temp anywhere between 84 and 98) or in normal driving fluctuate between mid 80s to high 90s.
Is this car fitted with a two speed cooling fan or is that later models only.
Are the sensors / gauges on these usually accurate or do they vary due to manufacturing tolerances?
Is there any free or cheap software available to connect to the ECU and take the ECU readings and do I use a KKL or ELM cable?
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:20 pm |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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You need to test the car to see what its doing.
Coolant temp sensor is a well known failure point & the thermostats aint much better.
Temp gauge should rise up to just past 90 deg C, thermostat opens & gauge needle should then drop to just under the 90 deg C mark.
If the car is sitting still the temp gauge will then rise again till the low speed cooling fan cuts in to cool it back down.
2 speed cooling fan on the 206, wires rot out & the fan either stops working or you loose the low speed.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:24 pm |
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Joined: Jun 10, 2011
Posts: 156
Trade Rating: +2
Location: Tamworth, Staffordshire
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I'd check your thermostat, when mine was missing (got conned, head gasket was gone so they took it out) it would sit at 60-70c for an hour and it would take 5-10mins of sitting on the drive doing nothing afterwards before it would get to 80 (and then go down as soon as it got on the move again). Since installing a thermostat it sits at 80 and rises to 90 in traffic jams (and only takes 5 mins of driving to get up to temp).
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| Now a 2010 Renault Megane Coupe owner | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:26 pm |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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I done temp sensor & thermostat on my TU3 last month, normally running temp is just under 90 deg C.
Thermostat opening temp is 89 deg C.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:37 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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MrBSI: Thank you. I am a long retired mechanic and just been through exactly the same exercise with my son's Alfa 147. That was obviously the stat but made much easier as there is some great free software (FiatECUScan - Fiat is Alfa now) that allows interrogation of the ECU readings.
Do you have any experience of ECU reading on these cars and what software / cable combination works best or is there an expert on this forum that is best to approach for advice on what (cheap) kit is best to use.
Looking for something that will read and reset; not just read - although just reading would be a great start if resetting is expensive
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:43 pm |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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| kandlbarrett wrote: |
Do you have any experience of ECU reading on these cars and what software / cable combination works best or is there an expert on this forum that is best to approach for advice on what (cheap) kit is best to use. |
Peugeot Planet / Citroen Lexia is what you want 
You just need a laptop running Windows XP.
Planet / Lexia seems to be coming down in price, you can get the software free if you look in the right places, its just getting hold of the interface / leads that costs a little.
You dont actually need any software as you can measure the resistance of the temp sensor as the car warms up, there is some data on the forum somewhere that was posted up in the last month or so.
For what a new temp sensor & stat cost I would be tempted to change both.
Check Peugeot / Citroen main dealer price on the thermostat as they where cheaper then Euro car parts & GSF when I bought mine.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:06 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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MrBSI: For info.
Almost every single thermostat opening temperature is now 88-90 degrees. That coincides with the fact that modern oils are designed to work between 82 and 98 degrees and the thermostat opening temperature is at the mid point of the ideal oil operating temperature.
Thermostats do have lag and driving in normal open road with occasional roundabouts and traffic lights will see coolant temperatures fluctuate between about 84 and 96 as the thermostat takes time to react to the water temperature rise and fall.
Many drivers will scream, "not in my car it doesn't"
"Sorry, but yes it does" is my reply.
However, this is rarely seen on modern dashboard temperature gauges because to avoid drivers getting worried by fluctuating temperatures the manufacturers now "damp" the dashboard gauge or intercept the signal from the ECU and force the dash gauge to be static at an indicated 90 degrees for any water temp between 82 and 98. I have tested Alfas, Fords and Fiats and it is correct for every one of their modern cars.
So if, once your car is initially up to temperature, the gauge fluctuates when driving this indicates that you have a failing stat, pump or blocked radiator. My money is almost always on a thermostat failure.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:10 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2949
Trade Rating: +6
Location: Athens, Greece
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Excellent thread.
Been through exactly this with mine recently as some on here might recall.
Main reason is wax cylinder in the stat fatiguing and opening more than it should generaly, or
just being stuck-open.
This is a designed falure mode because stuck-open is better than stuck-closed obviously.
Advantages of running the engine at the proper 90 C temp as I understand it include better mix adjustment
by the ECU, better cat efficiency, fuel efficiency and overall running of the engine.
It is also a good one to keep the temp as steady as possible to avoid cyclical stress of engine and parts.
What I do to check the engine temp sensor is use any old diag tool to compare the air-intake temp reading
with the engine temp reading, which at low temps should be roughly the same.
P.S. Temp reading needle on the dash is not damped on the 206.
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| 1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue
Repair safely - Drive safely | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:21 am |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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My coolant temp & also oil temp are both reading around 90 deg C once warmed up.
I can get the oil temp to rise up a bit if the car goes on a long high speed run 
Highest ive seen the oil temp is 115 deg C after a while on the motorway.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:08 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2949
Trade Rating: +6
Location: Athens, Greece
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On my 2001 1.4i there is only engine temp and air-intake temp reading in diagnostics.
No oil temp reading on the dash either so I assume there is no sensor for it.
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| 1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue
Repair safely - Drive safely | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:14 am |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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| V9977 wrote: |
On my 2001 1.4i there is only engine temp and air-intake temp reading in diagnostics.
No oil temp reading on the dash either so I assume there is no sensor for it. |
Was a retro fit
Change the oil level sensor for the combined oil level & temp sensor, change the instrument cluster for a unit with oil temp gauge, tweak the BSI config to tell it there is an oil temp sensor now fitted.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:00 am |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Istill haven't had time to investigate yet but, as some on here have found, the thermostats are sometimes removed to disquise a failing head gasket. I don't think it is that but will report all once I have had a chance to investigate properly.
Now to find a cheap (free?) copy of either Peugeot Planet or Citroen Lexia. It looks like "bettyswollocks" is the expert there and if I am struggling I'll contact them unless there is anyone here that can help with some links!!!!
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:08 am |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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| kandlbarrett wrote: |
Now to find a cheap (free?) copy of either Peugeot Planet or Citroen Lexia. |
Software is totally useless without the leads, you cant even install it fully without the dongle 
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:24 am |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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MrBSI: yes i am aware that I will need the lead. I have a KKL lead for my son's 147 but haven't investigated the 206 yet. Is it a standard OBD connection and can I use a cheap ELM lead from fleabay.
I wasn't aware there is a "dongle." I assume that this is in addition to the lead to connect it to the car or is it a lead that is used in series with the main connector?
I note that a lot of the lead sets include a serial port lead; is it essential that the PC has a serial port to use the software as my laptop with serial port has just died and this laptop doesn't have one.
Is there a "how to" on here as I can't find one using the search function.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:25 am |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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| kandlbarrett wrote: |
MrBSI: yes i am aware that I will need the lead. I have a KKL lead for my son's 147 but haven't investigated the 206 yet. Is it a standard OBD connection and can I use a cheap ELM lead from fleabay.
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Planet / Lexia software only works with the correct Planet / Lexia leads.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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