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 Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:55 pm |
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Joined: Jul 13, 2012
Posts: 321
Trade Rating: +3
Location: North West
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I want to change the gearing to get the 0-60 of my 180 to about 6.5 seconds.
Is this possible, and what sort of max speed (standard is about 135) would I be looking at if I did this.
Considering it is idiotic to do over 100 on public roads and the tracks I plan on using do not have long straights, I'm not bothered about speed. Thus if I can get the 0-60 to around 6.5 seconds with a max speed of 100 or 110 I'll be happy.
I know people that could do this for me, but first is it possible?
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:24 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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not possible i would say. best bet would be better tyre and launch control.
with stock gear you will hit 60mph in 2nd gear (quite a bit before redline).
if you aim to have top speed of 110, you more likely to hit 60mph in 3rd (redline). with an extra gearshift more likely you will lose time rather than gain.
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:28 pm |
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Joined: Jul 13, 2012
Posts: 321
Trade Rating: +3
Location: North West
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Thanks Seabook.
Didn't actually realise tyres are so pivitol in performance with regards to acceleration, thought they were more for road grip/handling. What sort of tyres would you recommend purely for quickness (and legal on public roads of course)?
To be honest mate I'd love a launch control system (I know in some cars you can get them) because I hold my hands up I can't drive, but you can't get launch control systems for the 180 can you? 
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| Own a Blue Peugeot 206 GTI 180. | |
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:33 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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you need grip in order to accelerate. Although with careful throttle control you shouldn't have any wheel spin when launch.
for daily use the best bet will be yokohama AD08 or toyo R1R.
you can't use launch control unless you got aftermarket ecu, even so not every ecu support this.
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:55 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 4455
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Essex
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Strip the car out, re place side & rear glass with plastic, drop a wheel size, turn off the traction control & practise your 0-60 sprints.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:05 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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A van gearbox usually has shorter gearing so should give you quicker acceleration. How long a standard clutch would last with the harsher acceleration would be anyones guess.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:09 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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| macca1411 wrote: |
| A van gearbox usually has shorter gearing so should give you quicker acceleration. How long a standard clutch would last with the harsher acceleration would be anyones guess. |
torque doesn't work that way round, it's going out from the engine to the clutch then gearbox.
changing gear ratio won't affect clutch
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:50 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 4455
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Essex
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| Seabook wrote: |
| macca1411 wrote: |
| A van gearbox usually has shorter gearing so should give you quicker acceleration. How long a standard clutch would last with the harsher acceleration would be anyones guess. |
torque doesn't work that way round, it's going out from the engine to the clutch then gearbox.
changing gear ratio won't affect clutch |
I think he's on about the possibility of torque from a more powerful engine (138) effecting the clutch on a van gearbox that was designed for an engine with less power.
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Last edited by E5GDM on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:52 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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A shorter final drive just gives easier access to the engines power band. Also bring all the gears closer together. The engine still makes the torque the same as it always did so clutches wont struggle at all.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:59 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 4455
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Essex
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| Edward wrote: |
| A shorter final drive just gives easier access to the engines power band. Also bring all the gears closer together. The engine still makes the torque the same as it always did so clutches wont struggle at all. |
So your saying a gearbox & clutch designed for 50bhp, could handle an engine of 500bhp?
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:07 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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| E5GDM wrote: |
| Seabook wrote: |
| macca1411 wrote: |
| A van gearbox usually has shorter gearing so should give you quicker acceleration. How long a standard clutch would last with the harsher acceleration would be anyones guess. |
torque doesn't work that way round, it's going out from the engine to the clutch then gearbox.
changing gear ratio won't affect clutch |
I think he's on about the possibility of torque from a more powerful engine (138) effecting the clutch on a van gearbox that was designed for an engine with less power. |
you joking? all turbo diesel van with BE4 box run better clutch (higher torque loading) than the 138/180.
i can't see why a 180/138 has more torque than a diesel van. torque kill box, not horsepower.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:13 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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| E5GDM wrote: |
| Edward wrote: |
| A shorter final drive just gives easier access to the engines power band. Also bring all the gears closer together. The engine still makes the torque the same as it always did so clutches wont struggle at all. |
So your saying a gearbox & clutch designed for 50bhp, could handle an engine of 500bhp? |
be realistic. now we are talking about BE4 box.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:18 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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I've done it myself (twice) both times I had to use the clutch friction plate that was the right size for the splines on the donor gearbox. On the second one it was even more of a PITA because the flywheels were different and weren't interchangeable so I ended up only using the outside half inch of the plate.
The engine spins up faster than the clutch was designed to allow, more frequent and often snatched at gearchanges to reduce the chance of getting a dip in power adds to more wear and tear on the clutch. Racing clutches are designed to a better standard than OEM parts to allow for the extra abuse they receive during their lifetime.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:23 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 10151
Trade Rating: +12
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| macca1411 wrote: |
I've done it myself (twice) both times I had to use the clutch friction plate that was the right size for the splines on the donor gearbox. On the second one it was even more of a PITA because the flywheels were different and weren't interchangeable so I ended up only using the outside half inch of the plate.
The engine spins up faster than the clutch was designed to allow, more frequent and often snatched at gearchanges to reduce the chance of getting a dip in power adds to more wear and tear on the clutch. Racing clutches are designed to a better standard than OEM parts to allow for the extra abuse they receive during their lifetime. |
that's because you aren't using the right clutch as you have said.
and rather odd is that if you put the whole diesel box into the gti you will have very high top speed as diesel gear are very long.
you only want the final drive.
and heat kill clutch
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:27 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 4455
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Essex
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| Seabook wrote: |
| E5GDM wrote: |
| Seabook wrote: |
| macca1411 wrote: |
| A van gearbox usually has shorter gearing so should give you quicker acceleration. How long a standard clutch would last with the harsher acceleration would be anyones guess. |
torque doesn't work that way round, it's going out from the engine to the clutch then gearbox.
changing gear ratio won't affect clutch |
I think he's on about the possibility of torque from a more powerful engine (138) effecting the clutch on a van gearbox that was designed for an engine with less power. |
you joking? all turbo diesel van with BE4 box run better clutch (higher torque loading) than the 138/180.
i can't see why a 180/138 has more torque than a diesel van. torque kill box, not horsepower. |
you joking? I know it's torque, I even say it in the post above.
I think your still missing the point, &/or trying to be to clever, as the fact is that if you increase the power going through a gearbox & clutch, you may have to upgrade the clutch (& even the gearbox maybe) to cope. If not why are there so many variants of clutches & not just one?
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