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 Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:31 am |
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Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 390
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Bath UK
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I've already highlighted what was unnecessary.
As long as the earth line is indeed an earth line and not something else.
Look, a motor needs power and earth, the guy has checked that power is supplied, he has already checked the motor works, so all that's missing is an earth
Colours on wires in Peugeot vehicles are most of the time mis-leading
When there are two wires going to a motor, one supply and the other earth, if the red wire is checked to be producing supply then you don't need to be Einstein to know what the black wire is going to be
adding un-fused 'jumpers' to test things is not a recomended practice.
There's a reason why you don't normally put fuses in earth lines, the line is SUPPOSED to be a short circuit to earth, the more short circuit the better. Putting an earth on the earth line is exactly what an electrician would do with a power probe
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:50 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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| Deckchair5 wrote: |
I've already highlighted what was unnecessary.
As long as the earth line is indeed an earth line and not something else.
Look, a motor needs power and earth, the guy has checked that power is supplied, he has already checked the motor works, so all that's missing is an earth |
I can understand where both of you are coming from. A motor needs and input and an output wire, in this case looking at the wiring diagram, one does run to earth.
This is not always the case though and the second wire can run to other things, so it's worth checking the output with a multimeter as if you stick a wire straight to earth you could end up blowing something or even worse creating an electrical short that results in fire.
And following a wiring diagram is assuming that no one has messed with the wires previously. It's a case of check it and check it properly using the right gear.
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:14 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2949
Trade Rating: +6
Location: Athens, Greece
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| Deckchair5 wrote: |
I've already highlighted what was unnecessary.
As long as the earth line is indeed an earth line and not something else.
Look, a motor needs power and earth, the guy has checked that power is supplied, he has already checked the motor works, so all that's missing is an earth
Colours on wires in Peugeot vehicles are most of the time mis-leading
When there are two wires going to a motor, one supply and the other earth, if the red wire is checked to be producing supply then you don't need to be Einstein to know what the black wire is going to be
adding un-fused 'jumpers' to test things is not a recomended practice.
There's a reason why you don't normally put fuses in earth lines, the line is SUPPOSED to be a short circuit to earth, the more short circuit the better. Putting an earth on the earth line is exactly what an electrician would do with a power probe |
As I said, the jumper wire is unfused not the supposed earth line/point on the car.
The trouble with Aut0 Data is often that mux/non-mux or different options spec mean slight differences and expecting others to read the schematics as well as you do, is a bit hopefull really. It's more a question of method and test jumpers on v. low-impedance circuits (such as cars) is both dangerous and can cause damage to ECU's, esp. when done by a non-professional. As for wire-colours on Peugeot, forget it.
It's the id numbers printed on the cables you always go by, and still exercise great care. (AD has those next to each one in the diagrams).
I still think your original sugestion of a multimeter was spot-on, and I stand by that - full stop end of story.
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| 1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue
Repair safely - Drive safely | |
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:17 am |
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Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 390
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Bath UK
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Phew! Well thank heavens for that! But keep it simple, we're not talking about low impedence circuits or ECU's, we're talking about a plain and simple motor with a supply and an earth. An earth that goes straight to earth with no visiting the neighbours or the shopping mall in between 
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:25 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2949
Trade Rating: +6
Location: Athens, Greece
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| Deckchair5 wrote: |
| Phew! Well thank heavens for that! But keep it simple, we're not talking about low impedence circuits or ECU's, we're talking about a plain and simple motor with a supply and an earth. An earth that goes straight to earth with no visiting the neighbours or the shopping mall in between |
Really?
What about these as well, not relevant for the trip to the mall?
It will be great if the earth-side of the blower motor connection is simply missing, and I hope they sort it and it could well be it.
However not all problems are solved with the magic-screwdriver in my painfull experience, without wishing to offend the OP of this topic, and merely responding to your comments in the help I try to chip-in.
I'll also gladly share some of the humble-pie with you as clearly not all A/C systems cycle the compressor OR work the same (regards page 2), something which you chose not to aknowledge at all.
In effect, I was saying that you shouldn't encourage people that don't know how to use a meter, to test-jump ANY electrical parts of a vehicle because:
"When it comes to elec. systems, you simply have to walk the walk, as well as talking the talk.."*
*John Hepworth, 1988
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| 1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue
Repair safely - Drive safely | |
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:23 am |
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Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 390
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Bath UK
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Yes really
The earth line goes straight from the motor to earth as can easily be seen from the wiring diagram.
All the rest is irrelevant as it is on the power supply side
I'll also gladly share some of the humble-pie with you as clearly not all A/C systems cycle the compressor OR work the same (regards page 2), something which you chose not to aknowledge at all.
If the evaporator temp goes too low then the compressor will be turned off to prevent it freezing up, if it froze up then the airflow would be very inefficient, if the aircon pressure is too low (or too high) then again the compressor will be cycled on/off, if you go to wide open throttle then the compressor is turned off so you have max power and with climate control then when things are cooled enough then that will also cycle the compressor. I didn't say all A/C work the same, I said that all A/C's are basically the same and they are, the basics are the same no matter what refinements and control are put on them. But again this is irrelevant to the OP
You seem to want to argue all the time, I'm all for opinions but if it's not relevant or helping the OP with their problem then I'm not interested and have better things to do
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Last edited by Deckchair5 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:26 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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You two are just going round in circles.
Take it to PM before my clicking finger gets itchy.
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:29 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2949
Trade Rating: +6
Location: Athens, Greece
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| macca1411 wrote: |
You two are just going round in circles.
Take it to PM before my clicking finger gets itchy. |
I'v nothing to add anyway.
Best of luck to Phil, hope you sort it.
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| 1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue
Repair safely - Drive safely | |
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:06 pm |
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Joined: May 29, 2013
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
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I checked the fan earth as you described Deckchair5. Sure enough when I used my spare battery as an earth the fan worked. I also checked the earth strap under the carpets by the drivers door and all is connected there.
So I guess you are right about it being an earth fault, what do I need to check next and where do I find it?
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:19 pm |
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Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 390
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Bath UK
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OK that sounds promising but I'm not sure what you mean when you say
when I used my spare battery as an earth the fan worked.
It needs to be the battery that's fitted on the car, as you know already the motor works when power and earth is supplied to it. You need to connect the fan motor black wire earth to the car battery earth. Perhaps you did that already, maybe you can clarify what you mean
If the motor has lost its path to earth then you need to find out just where the earth wire continuity is lost (ie find the break in the circuit) and repair it or renew the cable. More often the actual ground terminal where it attaches to the car bodywork(MC20 in this case) has corroded and simply needs taking off and cleaning up the contact points
As a test you could try connecting a wire from that MC20 body earth point directly to the car battery earth and if the motor then runs then you have definitely found the earth point to be a bad contact with no problems in the wiring
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Last edited by Deckchair5 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:28 pm |
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Joined: May 29, 2013
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
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I fitted the fan motor back again, connected the car connector and ran a wire from the back of the earth pin on the fan motor to negative on a spare battery. I didn't realise you meant run the earth to the car battery.
I will run the wire to the car battery and see what if the fan operates.
Cheers
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:36 pm |
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Joined: May 29, 2013
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
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I have connected the earth to the car battery and the fan works. I will disconnect the earth straps by the drivers feet and check to see if that solves it.
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:49 pm |
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Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 390
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Bath UK
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Super
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:51 pm |
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Joined: May 29, 2013
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
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I have found under the carpet all the sound deadening is wet. Normally I would think that the heater matrix is faulty but someone said that can't be the case as the car doesn't overheat and the warm air comes out of the vents. If that is true is this a symptom of the faults i currently have.
I will clean the earth connection and see if that was the problem, maybe the moisture nearby has affected it?
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Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:00 pm |
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Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 390
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Bath UK
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Yes, earth points are extremely likely to be affected by water. Maybe you have a door leak when it rains, that's pretty common and often caused by blocked door drains so the water coming in past the window seal is coming into the door faster than it goes out the drains. But to clear the drains, they go up and then immediately sideways so if you use a tie wrap then you can give them a good clear out well into the door
If it's heater leak then the water will smell of coolant (assuming you use antifreeze) Ha! Stick your finger in it and see what it feels and smells like
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