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 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:23 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2720
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK
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| LeeThr wrote: |
| Big_Rich180 wrote: |
| LeeThr wrote: |
| macca1411 wrote: |
| Unless you have Peugeot Planet, you can't bleed the brakes. |
Only applies to the GTi 180. |
Why, I thought it was to do with the ABS? |
Only applies to the ABS system with ESP 
Which the only 206 to have was the 180. |
Wrong. My 54 plate GTi has it.
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:29 pm |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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| LeeThr wrote: |
| Big_Rich180 wrote: |
| LeeThr wrote: |
| macca1411 wrote: |
| Unless you have Peugeot Planet, you can't bleed the brakes. |
Only applies to the GTi 180. |
Why, I thought it was to do with the ABS? |
Only applies to the ABS system with ESP
Which the only 206 to have was the 180. |
Later GTI have it as standard, GTI HDI has it as standard.
I've seen it fitted to an ET3 powered 206 as the owner ticked the option box when they ordered the car new.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:33 pm |
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Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 2596
Trade Rating: +17
Location: North West Wales
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| MrBSI wrote: |
| LeeThr wrote: |
| Big_Rich180 wrote: |
| LeeThr wrote: |
| macca1411 wrote: |
| Unless you have Peugeot Planet, you can't bleed the brakes. |
Only applies to the GTi 180. |
Why, I thought it was to do with the ABS? |
Only applies to the ABS system with ESP
Which the only 206 to have was the 180. |
Later GTI have it as standard, GTI HDI has it as standard.
I've seen it fitted to an ET3 powered 206 as the owner ticked the option box when they ordered the car new. |
All those 90 horses must have been hard to tame 
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:55 pm |
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Joined: Jan 15, 2013
Posts: 244
Trade Rating: 0
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I am well aware that brake fluid is a degrading liquid,so over time if its exposed to air it will lose its non compressiive qualities and will need replacing..
But is this fact a possible cause of this guys problems because if there's no leaks to be found maybe a full brake fluid change is needed here?
Does anyone have any experience of this brake fluids main properties loss??i suppose leaving the cap off for long enough can cause this?
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:38 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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I would agree on brake fluid having air, or being old altogether, so bleeding brakes or replacing the whole fluid is [somewhere down] on my TODO list.
But I'm questioning why the brake pedal went all spongy so sudden -- from one moment to the other.
Other forum (Toyota 4x4s) said:
| Quote:: |
| Check the shoes on the rear, you get pedal pressure from the rear. |
My local garage suspects the whole brake pedal fitting frame (the lever) might be snapped/bending down
If not that, then I told them to look into rear shoes, too
Master cylinder seal loose is not likely, because the car brakes just as good as before
We keep fighting 
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:54 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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Wrote some rubbish myself (together with local garage suggestions):
| sledge wrote: |
My local garage suspects the whole brake pedal fitting frame (the lever) might be snapped/bending down
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Wrong, because pedal would feel spongy even with engine off. Or instead, when you pump the pedal a bit, it now becomes hard for couple of next presses
| sledge wrote: |
Master cylinder seal loose is not likely, because the car brakes just as good as before
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Wrong, because a seal-leaking M/C would still generate same amount of brake pressure efficiency, it's just that the brake pedal would travel to the ground as you stomp on brakes -- exactly my behaviour! (as opposed to staying firm hard, or travelling minimally - just checked on 307 -- it -does- travel, but you barely realise, unless firmly braking for 5 or more seconds)
On a Mercedes though, travel to the ground is normal, the travel should be on every car I think (the brake fluid -is- circulating, when constant hard pressure is applied to the pedal, just at different rates for different cars; and should not feel beyond zone of comfort. Mercedes normal travel speed apparently is on the border of comfort )
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:05 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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| eddie206 wrote: |
I am well aware that brake fluid is a degrading liquid,so over time if its exposed to air it will lose its non compressiive qualities and will need replacing..
But is this fact a possible cause of this guys problems because if there's no leaks to be found maybe a full brake fluid change is needed here?
Does anyone have any experience of this brake fluids main properties loss??i suppose leaving the cap off for long enough can cause this? |
www.aa-academy.com/Tra...Fluids.asp
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:11 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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| macca1411 wrote: |
| http://www.aa-academy.com/Training/Learning%20Zone/Brake%20Fluids.asp |
So can this statement be true: "when a water content in brake fluid gets higher than a certain amount, the pedal firmness is lost from one mile to another, i.e. exponentially and not gradually" ?
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:21 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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| sledge wrote: |
| macca1411 wrote: |
| http://www.aa-academy.com/Training/Learning%20Zone/Brake%20Fluids.asp |
So can this statement be true: "when a water content in brake fluid gets higher than a certain amount, the pedal firmness is lost from one mile to another, i.e. exponentially and not gradually" ? |
On this quote yes
| Quote:: |
| This ‘soaked up’ business is important. The brake fluid draws in the moisture and is absorbed into the fluid. As the fluid absorbs the moisture it thickens and its ability to withstand heat and corrosion is reduced. The result is a significant drop in the temperature at which the fluid boils so after a period of heavy braking, the fluid could boil in the calipers. Hydraulics work on the principle that you cannot compress a liquid so the pressure created is used to force the pads against the discs or the shoes against the drums. However, if the water in the fluid boils you can compress a vapour (the steam produced) and this will greatly increase the distance the pedal will have to travel to apply the brakes. |
If your brakes are cold like at the end of a motorway, then there will be very little water vapour, but then you go onto an A road with lights and roundabouts and your brakes are used more which then increases the temp and turns the water into vapour which compresses.
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:26 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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| macca1411 wrote: |
| If your brakes are cold like at the end of a motorway, then there will be very little water vapour, but then you go onto an A road with lights and roundabouts and your brakes are used more which then increases the temp and turns the water into vapour which compresses. |
Thanks macca, my question is about my case: brake pedal behaviour changes over long-term: I had been driving this car with firm brake pedal for 18 months, and now it became soft, regardless the road.
So if that holds for brake fluid to deteriorate over time, but expose noticeable symptoms in a day, then car just needs bleeding or replace the whole brake fluid (in turn dismissing M/C, rear shoe, etc suspects)
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:40 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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I'd start with a fluid change and work from there. It's worth checking over all the brake components at the same time. Drums off, adjust the shoes so you can just pass the drums over them. Make sure the auto adjusters are working. Check along all the pipes and connections for signs of a leak, maybe use tracing spray. Make sure the compensator valve (if fitted) is working and not seized. Quite a few things to look at, but with brakes, might as well do everything properly.
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:29 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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Many thanks macca! a great concise tutorial
I tried removing drums myself, but couldn't undo the rear hub nut. I even snapped the nut's edge when I tried to bend it out from the cut-out hole in the axle (that's why they need to be replaced upon undoing anyhow according to Haynes).
So I leave it for the garage to inspect this weekend. I also bought them these (ok quality? lol those were my last words ): www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330831879159
For the spongy brake pedal senior mechanic suspects brake servo malfunctioning (working too well!?) But I insisted they remove drums and do thorough inspection (they didn't have time to remove them last week).
Could this be servo?..
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Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:49 am |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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A leaking master cylinder seal, in theory, shouldn't pump up as your does. However, I have seen them do that and it is what I suspect as your current root problem.
Brake fluid should be changed every couple of years but frequency depends on the type of fluid in the system. It is unusual for water in your fluid to give a sudden change in brake degradation (you describe it happening overnight) - it is usually a gradual loss over many months. However, if the fluid hasn't been changed for a few years then do that anyway.
The rear stub axle nut is (should be) torqued to 200NM or 148ft.lb which is tight but not too bad. To release the area that the nut is staked I use an old screwdriver and tap it between the staked portion of the nut and the stub. I must admit I have a very long bar that means ALL nuts are easy to release. You must fit new nuts when reassembling everything but they are cheap enough from either Peugeot or must motor factors and tighten the nut with a torque wrench not guess work.
Summary: if you are certain you don't have a leak then my bet is master cylinder seal and change the fluid if it is old.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:02 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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Apparently, replaced brake fluid fixed all nuisances. So if it goes spongy from one corner to another - replacing fluid is a good thing to do (especially when it's >1.5 years old)
Cheers all!
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:30 am |
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Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 495
Trade Rating: +1
Location: huddersfield
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Just out of curiousity, how did you bleed the brakes.
Garage peugeot planet.
Or manually the old fashioned way.
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| 206 2ltr Hdi glx 53 plate | |
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