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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:10 am |
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Joined: Sep 08, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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Brought here by this:
www.206info.co.uk/Foru...10000.html
Seems like my problem as the Rev counter's been misbehaving for the last few months too.
Had the no glowlight symptoms before and have eliminated the glowplug relay by having that changed. It's been fine for a few weeks.
Now back to no glowplug light and no starting. All the cranking in the world though. No fuses seem blown.
Looks like the 'multifunction relay' or 'combination relay' or 'ecu relay' is at fault. Haynes says its under the ECU but being WJZ mine has no ECU. So where is it? I'd like to pull it and check for a part number to go ebaying. On top of what would be the ECU plate (offside front behind the headlight) is a relay marked as a bitron >ppe-gf10< but googling that brings it up as cooling fan relay. There's another one of these on the nearside near the bulkhead. Not sure of the significance of that but I thought it weird.
Anyway a little help from the many who seem to have had this issue please? If this doesn't work it's off to we buy anycar for the girl as I'm sure the shortly due MOT is going to find something else.
LM
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:00 am |
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Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 495
Trade Rating: +1
Location: huddersfield
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With just the ignition on 2nd position, before trying to start the car, is the fuel pump priming, (noise for about 5 seconds.)
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| 206 2ltr Hdi glx 53 plate | |
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:15 am |
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Joined: Sep 08, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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Cheers for responding.
Must admit I can't pick up any sound even with the bonnet open. But that could just be my ears. What sort of noise am I listening for?
More help for diagnosis. Last time running was yesterday where she turned over after the third try with a puff of white smoke. This was a return from the local Tesco when she'd been running about half an hour previously. Both to and from the supermarket required three attempts to start with about 2 or 3 seconds of key turn a piece.
Just tried again. Three key turns of about 3 seconds each. Faint white cloud of vapour out the exhaust and a faint smell of fuel.
I'll be honest I'm no mechanic (in case anyone hadn't picked up on that yet) but doesn't the above hint fuel is flowing?
Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:46 pm |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| LemmingMan wrote: |
Cheers for responding.
Must admit I can't pick up any sound even with the bonnet open. But that could just be my ears. What sort of noise am I listening for?
More help for diagnosis. Last time running was yesterday where she turned over after the third try with a puff of white smoke. This was a return from the local Tesco when she'd been running about half an hour previously. Both to and from the supermarket required three attempts to start with about 2 or 3 seconds of key turn a piece.
Just tried again. Three key turns of about 3 seconds each. Faint white cloud of vapour out the exhaust and a faint smell of fuel.
I'll be honest I'm no mechanic (in case anyone hadn't picked up on that yet) but doesn't the above hint fuel is flowing?
Mark |
No disrespect to the person who answered your post, but the DW8 is pretty much the same as the old XUD9 and has a mechanical fuel pump.
Pretty much no PSA diesel ever has 'primed' at the turn of the key like a petrol engine does, as it's a mechanical fuel pump (even the HDi). This wouldn't matter a bean to the glow plugs either.
Anyway, it'll no doubt be electrical somewhere along the way - it's just a case of chasing back the circuit.
See if this thread helps, assuming you've not already read it
community.preloved.co....tartrow=41
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:58 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 7094
Trade Rating: +11
Location: Suffolk
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Just shove some diagnostic equipment on it then report back with the codes
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| Team Impossible Possible
The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Forged 1.6 Turbo
Click to see more
144Bhp @ 7PSi - 193.9Bhp @ 13psi
206 Gti Race Car
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For all Race/Track Preparation, Feel Free to PM Me!
Whether its for a custom ratio gearbox or track-day alignment, I can help! | |
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:23 am |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| Addaz wrote: |
| Just shove some diagnostic equipment on it then report back with the codes |
There's no ECU, so that's hardly going to help him.
There's a number of factors to look at really, and if the rev counter is being a PITA then that could well be the TDC sensor.
I've had the TDC sensor issue on the older XUD9TE version in several guises, but I don't recall it affecting the preheating circuit.
Things that do affect the preheating circuit are the coolant temp sensor (as it overrides the system at 80 deg C) and I think the load lever switch on the fuel pump.
Considering the issues though, I'd be tempted to chase the wiring back up to perhaps the bulkhead, or any area which has a multiconnector - there's a good chance that it may have let in some moisture and just needs a bit of WD40 or similar.
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:31 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 7094
Trade Rating: +11
Location: Suffolk
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| badj wrote: |
| Addaz wrote: |
| Just shove some diagnostic equipment on it then report back with the codes |
There's no ECU, so that's hardly going to help him.
There's a number of factors to look at really, and if the rev counter is being a PITA then that could well be the TDC sensor.
I've had the TDC sensor issue on the older XUD9TE version in several guises, but I don't recall it affecting the preheating circuit.
Things that do affect the preheating circuit are the coolant temp sensor (as it overrides the system at 80 deg C) and I think the load lever switch on the fuel pump.
Considering the issues though, I'd be tempted to chase the wiring back up to perhaps the bulkhead, or any area which has a multiconnector - there's a good chance that it may have let in some moisture and just needs a bit of WD40 or similar. |
The bsi (well the equlivilant back then) may have recorded some issues. Probably end up being along the lines of the immobilisation solenoid.
And also lets face it glows plugs dont affext the vehicle till below 5 degrees
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| Team Impossible Possible
The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Forged 1.6 Turbo
Click to see more
144Bhp @ 7PSi - 193.9Bhp @ 13psi
206 Gti Race Car
Click to see more
For all Race/Track Preparation, Feel Free to PM Me!
Whether its for a custom ratio gearbox or track-day alignment, I can help! | |
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:35 am |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| Addaz wrote: |
| badj wrote: |
| Addaz wrote: |
| Just shove some diagnostic equipment on it then report back with the codes |
There's no ECU, so that's hardly going to help him.
There's a number of factors to look at really, and if the rev counter is being a PITA then that could well be the TDC sensor.
I've had the TDC sensor issue on the older XUD9TE version in several guises, but I don't recall it affecting the preheating circuit.
Things that do affect the preheating circuit are the coolant temp sensor (as it overrides the system at 80 deg C) and I think the load lever switch on the fuel pump.
Considering the issues though, I'd be tempted to chase the wiring back up to perhaps the bulkhead, or any area which has a multiconnector - there's a good chance that it may have let in some moisture and just needs a bit of WD40 or similar. |
The bsi (well the equlivilant back then) may have recorded some issues. Probably end up being along the lines of the immobilisation solenoid.
And also lets face it glows plugs dont affext the vehicle till below 5 degrees |
On an archaic engine like the DW8 (which, lets face it is a reflogged XUD from the 80's) the engine will rely heavily on glow plugs to provide the heat/compression from cold start up.
The immobiliser solenoid could be the issue, but it's not likely as it wouldn't 9shouldn't) affect the glowplug relay.
As the 'immobiliser' basically just overrides the stop solenoid, the easiest way to tell would be to crack the fuel lines (quite safe on these, no high pressure like a HDi) and see for certain if fuel is getting through.
you can bodge these sorts of things by adding in an override switch/circuit for the glow plugs, but it's best to do a basic trace of the wiring to look for corrosion or a loose connection.
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:18 pm |
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Joined: Sep 08, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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All interesting stuff. Thanks folks.
Since I've still not found the location of the likely relay, really what I wanted to try changing myself before passing her to a garage, I've turned it over to my mechanic to resolve.
Will report back.
LM
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:43 am |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2721
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK
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Air in the fuel lines I'd be looking for.
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:41 am |
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Joined: Sep 08, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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As a side note to get her to the garage a little carb cleaner sprayed in to the air intake was all it took to get her going.
As I expected fuel doesn't seem to be the issue. Pretty sure it's the multi relay and its feed into the glowplug relay. The technician will advise.
LM
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:08 pm |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 7094
Trade Rating: +11
Location: Suffolk
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| badj wrote: |
| Addaz wrote: |
| badj wrote: |
| Addaz wrote: |
| Just shove some diagnostic equipment on it then report back with the codes |
There's no ECU, so that's hardly going to help him.
There's a number of factors to look at really, and if the rev counter is being a PITA then that could well be the TDC sensor.
I've had the TDC sensor issue on the older XUD9TE version in several guises, but I don't recall it affecting the preheating circuit.
Things that do affect the preheating circuit are the coolant temp sensor (as it overrides the system at 80 deg C) and I think the load lever switch on the fuel pump.
Considering the issues though, I'd be tempted to chase the wiring back up to perhaps the bulkhead, or any area which has a multiconnector - there's a good chance that it may have let in some moisture and just needs a bit of WD40 or similar. |
The bsi (well the equlivilant back then) may have recorded some issues. Probably end up being along the lines of the immobilisation solenoid.
And also lets face it glows plugs dont affext the vehicle till below 5 degrees |
On an archaic engine like the DW8 (which, lets face it is a reflogged XUD from the 80's) the engine will rely heavily on glow plugs to provide the heat/compression from cold start up.
The immobiliser solenoid could be the issue, but it's not likely as it wouldn't 9shouldn't) affect the glowplug relay.
As the 'immobiliser' basically just overrides the stop solenoid, the easiest way to tell would be to crack the fuel lines (quite safe on these, no high pressure like a HDi) and see for certain if fuel is getting through.
you can bodge these sorts of things by adding in an override switch/circuit for the glow plugs, but it's best to do a basic trace of the wiring to look for corrosion or a loose connection. |
There is pressure, but as you said, not like the HDI but i still wouldnt enjoy 200 to 400 bar hitting me
Hdi's operate at 1200 to 2000 nowadays.
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| Team Impossible Possible
The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Forged 1.6 Turbo
Click to see more
144Bhp @ 7PSi - 193.9Bhp @ 13psi
206 Gti Race Car
Click to see more
For all Race/Track Preparation, Feel Free to PM Me!
Whether its for a custom ratio gearbox or track-day alignment, I can help! | |
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:20 am |
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Joined: Sep 08, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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Right. Only goes to show. Apparently I have what's been described as a disintegrating engine bay fusebox. As its part of the loom, again apparently, a swine to change. Mechanic cant get a replacement anyway.
His suggestion is get it to an auto electrician who could be able to bypass the damaged section hooking up glowplug relay via ignition. With the fuse box in questionable condition I wonder if its worth it. I reckon the rear motor mount may be on the way out judging by the hammering on the floor when I start her and the knock when accelerating. Plus the grumbling from similar location could be the bearing running through it. Then there's the chance she'll need a new windscreen. Anyway I digress.
Looks like its a trip to the auto electrician for further opinion come Monday.
LM
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:12 am |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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Send it of to China, recycle it in to something more useful.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:40 pm |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| Addaz wrote: |
| badj wrote: |
| Addaz wrote: |
| badj wrote: |
| Addaz wrote: |
| Just shove some diagnostic equipment on it then report back with the codes |
There's no ECU, so that's hardly going to help him.
There's a number of factors to look at really, and if the rev counter is being a PITA then that could well be the TDC sensor.
I've had the TDC sensor issue on the older XUD9TE version in several guises, but I don't recall it affecting the preheating circuit.
Things that do affect the preheating circuit are the coolant temp sensor (as it overrides the system at 80 deg C) and I think the load lever switch on the fuel pump.
Considering the issues though, I'd be tempted to chase the wiring back up to perhaps the bulkhead, or any area which has a multiconnector - there's a good chance that it may have let in some moisture and just needs a bit of WD40 or similar. |
The bsi (well the equlivilant back then) may have recorded some issues. Probably end up being along the lines of the immobilisation solenoid.
And also lets face it glows plugs dont affext the vehicle till below 5 degrees |
On an archaic engine like the DW8 (which, lets face it is a reflogged XUD from the 80's) the engine will rely heavily on glow plugs to provide the heat/compression from cold start up.
The immobiliser solenoid could be the issue, but it's not likely as it wouldn't 9shouldn't) affect the glowplug relay.
As the 'immobiliser' basically just overrides the stop solenoid, the easiest way to tell would be to crack the fuel lines (quite safe on these, no high pressure like a HDi) and see for certain if fuel is getting through.
you can bodge these sorts of things by adding in an override switch/circuit for the glow plugs, but it's best to do a basic trace of the wiring to look for corrosion or a loose connection. |
There is pressure, but as you said, not like the HDI but i still wouldnt enjoy 200 to 400 bar hitting me
Hdi's operate at 1200 to 2000 nowadays. |
I'm not sure why any fuel should ever be 'hitting' you, but Peugeot's own method for bleeding the fuel lines on an XUD series engine involves cracking the fuel lines.
For the OP, the fusebox itself should be removable - not sure what your mechanic is quite on about.
Case in point, one on ebay which should be the same
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEU...5afacca324
Rear engine mount isn't that bad of a job, depending on whether the bearing needs looking at. Essentially you'd need to remove the driveshaft to take the whole assembly out, but I've done quite a few in the past and they're not that much of a nightmare, but they do have a habit of the bearing on the driveshaft seizing to the mounting.
Often the windscreen can be done on the insurance for either free or very little - it'd be a shame to not keep a car based on the cost to repair being reasonable little.
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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