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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:33 am |
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Joined: Sep 20, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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Hi all , new to 206 so new to the forum . 2 weeks I've had my 2001 GTI on the road running sweet except for a rough idle on cold starts for the first 90 seconds . Today after a 15 minute trip with a 90 minute break then a few less than 5 minute trips it wouldn't start and still won't .
I only have the spare key for it and after the last trip I stopped at a locksmith to get a price on a new key for the near future . He had to scan the key to work out which is the correct one to give a price. Then the car wont start 2 minutes later.
I checked for the sound of the fuel pump and fuel pressure at the bleeder and both were present.
I got my wife to come out with 2 spare coils I know work as they were only tested weeks ago and a socket set and still no joy Road side assist came and read that all 3 coil packs are firing on the 2 cylinders closest to the gearbox but wouldn't get a scan tool out instead opting for a tow truck.
Now the question is to those who haven't lost interest yet should I be looking at the key or something on the car ?
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:57 am |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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There's common issues (especially on here) with both the key and the key reader 'aerial' (also called several other things, but is basically the receiver around the ignition barrel for the transponder in the key).
It sounds very much like there's going to be a key issue, though. The immobiliser sounds like it's doing it's job as it doesn't recognise the key.
Can't think where/if there's an immobiliser light on the preplex (as I assume yours is), might be worth checking in the manual as it should indicate whether or not the immobiliser is armed whilst you're trying to start the car.
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:31 am |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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It's odd that cylinders 1 and 2 are firing. If it had been an immobiliser fault then you would have thought all 4 cylinders would be dead,
The immobiliser works in several ways:
- disconnect voltage to HT leads/coil pack and subsequently stop spark plugs from firing
- disconnect voltage from fuel pump
- disconnect voltage from starter motor
Depending on the vehicle the immobiliser system may employ any combination or all of the above.
As a general rule, if the immobiliser cuts the spark, then it also stops the fuel. This prevents raw fuel being pumped into the cat and destroying it.
As far as I am aware, there is no indicator on a 206 to say when the immobiliser is active.
Long shot, did the guy in the key place take the key apart? You say spare key, but don't say if it was the service key or the remote fob. It's very easy to lose the chip from inside the key, and a few people have thrown them away without realising.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:18 am |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| macca1411 wrote: |
It's odd that cylinders 1 and 2 are firing. If it had been an immobiliser fault then you would have thought all 4 cylinders would be dead,
The immobiliser works in several ways:
- disconnect voltage to HT leads/coil pack and subsequently stop spark plugs from firing
- disconnect voltage from fuel pump
- disconnect voltage from starter motor
Depending on the vehicle the immobiliser system may employ any combination or all of the above.
As a general rule, if the immobiliser cuts the spark, then it also stops the fuel. This prevents raw fuel being pumped into the cat and destroying it.
As far as I am aware, there is no indicator on a 206 to say when the immobiliser is active.
Long shot, did the guy in the key place take the key apart? You say spare key, but don't say if it was the service key or the remote fob. It's very easy to lose the chip from inside the key, and a few people have thrown them away without realising. |
Multiplex 206s have an indicator light by the hazard switch, an audible 'chime' and will display on the MFD if the immobiliser is active when the car tries to start.
I'm also quite sure that the immobiliser controls the injectors, so fuel at the line doesn't guarantee that it's getting into the cylinders.
To the OP - Pull the plugs on it - dry plugs = no fuel getting in to the cylinders. If they're wet, it'll be narrowed down to ignition.
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:46 am |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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| pigoat wrote: |
He had to scan the key to work out which is the correct one to give a price. Then the car wont start 2 minutes later.
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Wouldn't be surprised if the key code has been corrupted by this.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:46 pm |
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Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 6526
Trade Rating: +10
Location: Westhoughton, Lancashire
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| badj wrote: |
| Multiplex 206s have an indicator light by the hazard switch. |
You sure? If they do then mine must be well hidden.
I always thought the light in the middle of the double switch was an alarm status indicator, not all 206s have the double switch and not all have the alarm.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:55 pm |
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Joined: Sep 20, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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Àwake now as I'm Down under . 1. The key is the no remote fob , it was just scanned and not pulled apart . 2. According to the info on my Peugeot online manual when I put the VIN number in it comes up as Without Multiplexing . As for a light in the middle of the dash I haven't seen one unless it was on the stereo which I don't have it is a hole in the dash at the moment .
I'll go see if the plugs are getting wet and be back. Cheers for your help people.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:37 pm |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| pigoat wrote: |
Àwake now as I'm Down under . 1. The key is the no remote fob , it was just scanned and not pulled apart . 2. According to the info on my Peugeot online manual when I put the VIN number in it comes up as Without Multiplexing . As for a light in the middle of the dash I haven't seen one unless it was on the stereo which I don't have it is a hole in the dash at the moment .
I'll go see if the plugs are getting wet and be back. Cheers for your help people. |
a 2001 with normally not be multiplexed, so wasn't expecting the light by the hazard switch tbh.
You'll just have to go back to old school basics as mentioned, if it's not firing, wet plugs mean fuel is getting in, but likely no ignition.
It depends how it's trying to start, I'd expect it to cough and splutter if it were trying to start even on two - if it's just the normal cranking them I'm sure it'll be something to do with the immobiliser.
Good luck anyway
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:41 pm |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| macca1411 wrote: |
| badj wrote: |
| Multiplex 206s have an indicator light by the hazard switch. |
You sure? If they do then mine must be well hidden.
I always thought the light in the middle of the double switch was an alarm status indicator, not all 206s have the double switch and not all have the alarm. |
As per the manual, not aware of any changes across the trim nor does it suggest so?
I've highlighted it in the red box
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:29 pm |
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Joined: Sep 20, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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I'm back , plugs seem to wet up . I left the coil unbolted and put a spark tester between the coil and each plug and no spark at all on any of the cylinders so maybe the Roady' Assist reader was picking up some sort of residual current .
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:35 pm |
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Joined: Sep 20, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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Is there any sort of reset for the immobilizer ?
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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:45 am |
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Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 144
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Wiltshire
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| pigoat wrote: |
| Is there any sort of reset for the immobilizer ? |
Not quite, but there is a 'soft reset' feature, but I think thats for the multiplexed cars only.
You could leave the battery disconnected for 10 mins or so, as per the old school ecu reset.
Although it's not necessarily likely to do anything, it can't hard to try.
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| Iceland Blue '99 206 GTI (140) - SOLD
KMF '05 1.4 HDi | |
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:28 am |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Read MrBSI post!
Go back to the key shop and try to get the money for a new genuine key from Peugeot code to your car. That will make his eyes water.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:47 am |
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Joined: Sep 20, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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Found a black wire with a blue plug running down the steering column that was loose but all I got now is a backfire .
So next question is the beep still sounds when the key is left in the ignition after turning the the ignition off , does that means the car still recognizes the the key or is that just an automatic function ?
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:40 pm |
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Joined: Sep 20, 2014
Posts: 6
Trade Rating: 0
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The tale so far , have changed plugs , the big relay under the ecu , other relays in the fuse box , multimetered the 3 coil packs then fitted the lowest resistance one and changed crank angle sensor . Charged battery .
Still no joy but I am getting a spark when I let off the key ........Thinking I might get a ecu from the wrecking yard.
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