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 Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:23 am |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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Hi Guys,
Well today has just gone from bad to worse. tempted to just get back into bed and forget today has ever happened. I rely on my car to get me to uni and I need it tomorrow to take my gran to the hospital so its urgent I get it fixed. Hopefully you guys can help?
Last night I went out up the road probably 8 miles round trip. When I tried starting it last night it sounded like it was struggling and took slightly longer to fire. Now were only saying a couple of seconds longer and then it fired no problem. So off I trundle, I get to where I was going but stayed sat in the car with the engine running. I tested a radio for 15-20 minutes as I am a licenced amateur radio operator. Then drove home. On the way home the car behind kept flashing me, I figured it was because I had my fog lights on as it was a big foggy. I turned them off as I had gone down a hill and it was pretty clear. By which time I was turning off to go into my village and the guy flashing me continued straight.
Parked up and turned the engine off and went inside and then to bed. I wake up this morning in a panic as I had overslept and needed to get to university for my first lecture back after xmas break. Unlocked the car with central locking fob and got in, stuck me rucksack on the passenger seat as I always do put the key in the ignition and turn the key to the on position. I waited a couple of seconds for the glow plugs to warm then tried starting the car. Its probably worth pointing out the glow plug light went off immediately as it normally does but I always wait a couple of seconds anyway. I turned the key to start the car after making sure it was out of gear and then it turned over and over and over. It wont start just keeps turning over. I tried several times but no luck. I did a walk round to see if there was anything obvious as that guy was flashing me last night (just figured it may be related) everything looked ok. Popped the bonnet and check all the fluid levels, fine. Gave the fuel primer a good few hard squeezes, yep plenty of fuel and no big air bubbles. Tried to start it again, same thing. Now I could quite easily strip a petrol engine down to nothing and rebuild it but diesels its another thing entirely. The fuel pump is mechanical and I can see the fuel in the lines and there are no airlocks. I'm stumped as I don't have a decent knowledge of diesels.
PLEASE HELP!
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Last edited by commandosqueak on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:49 am |
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Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 4266
Trade Rating: +4
Location: Palestine
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You need to check if the Primary pump in the tank which deliver the diesel from the tank to the high pressure pump is working.
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:34 pm |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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I have fuel at the fuel primer so the lift pump is fine, I can also hear it running. But I will go and double check. I assume it the one under the rear seat on top of the tank?
EDIT: the 1.4 doesn't have one according to my Haynes manual
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:37 am |
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Joined: Jun 19, 2010
Posts: 1600
Trade Rating: +4
Location: South Bucks
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Any engine management light?
I've had a 1.4 hdi since 2003 and I have never seen the glow plug light come on except when the glow plug relay broke .. (big black box on back of battery case).
It could be a load of things and really you need it on a diagnostic to see if you can get any fault codes.
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| Down to just the 1.4 HDi. Cayman Green 2.0i CC sold. | |
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:44 pm |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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Is there a way of testing the glow plug relay? Im thinking it may have something to do with my battery. I charged it as I had run it low by turning the engine over. It was fully charged but when put back on the car the MFD said eco mode. It has been quite cold lately and its 4 year warranty ends about now give or take six months.
I will drop vortech a message as I know he as pp2000, if i pay him with beer hopefully he will come as he is the closest person. I don't fancy taking the top of the engine off to get to the injectors and glow plugs to test them. I changed an injector on it about 18 months ago and that was a nightmare job. Honestly the timing belt was better.
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:10 pm |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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OK, the relay is ok, I can hear it clicking when the ignition is turned on. There is a valve or solenoid of some kind just under the hand pump for the fuel pump. What is it? here is a pic, its the thing connected to the red plug.
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:59 am |
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Joined: Feb 16, 2010
Posts: 440
Trade Rating: +2
Location: Devon
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1.4HDi doesn't have a lift pump as you state.
Unless the fuel rail sensor sees 300 bar (iirc) the injectors won't open to fire - potentially worn pump
The Cam and Crank sensors need to be 'in sync'
The fuel pipes under the air box can rub through, but i would expect you to see/smell diesel under the bonnet.
Fuel filter could be blocked
Air filter blocked (that is a long shot though)
Are you able to have a go bump starting it?
If you do have access to PP2K then you'll be able to see the live data when cranking it over and what the pump is doing and if the cam/crank is in sync
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:28 am |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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Since the break in I have parked the car in the field in front of my house. I going to have a job getting it out of the field with all the rain we have had let alone bump starting. I have sent a pm to vortechs to see if he is available to stick it on pp2000 at some point, If I don't get a response I will have to find someone who is willing to travel a bit.
It could be absolutely anything, problem is I have no idea when it comes to a diesel. Definitely not a fuel leak, that I can be certain of. Talking of fuel, the picture I put above I worked out to be the fuel temperature sensor. The pressure control valve is integral with the pump and the fuel pressure sensor is in the accumulator rail. Just hope to god What ever it is doesn't need the top cover taken off. That was a nightmare when I changed the injector.
Last night with a fully charged battery and jump leads to a second battery in my uncles bosses pickup truck we tried a jump start to see if it was the battery causing the issue. Still no luck. But I'm certain I need a new one anyway. I got the day to check a few things, Going to double check I'm getting current from the glow plug relay. It makes a defined click so I'm sure it's fine but no harm in double checking. I am going to drain the fuel filter to see if that clears a blockage and any water built up in the filter. Worse case I need to work out the path the fuel takes before it gets to the high pressure side and see if I have any flow. Although there is no lift pump so I don't know how I'm going to test that other than pulling and injector out?
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:52 am |
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Joined: Feb 16, 2010
Posts: 440
Trade Rating: +2
Location: Devon
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pull the pipe off the end of the filter, have a bottle there to catch any fuel that comes out.
Is it low on fuel? i have mine be a bit of a pig when it was low and i parked it facing uphill.
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:20 pm |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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I have over 1/2 a tank of fresh fuel. Only filled up on boxing day whilst i was in Nottingham with my aunt. Then drove to Blackpool to see my dad then drove home on the 28th. never skipped a beat! Got home and it sat, used it that night i got flashed and then the next day its dead.
I have drained some fuel from the filter, very little come out, had to pull one of the hoses off the top for anything to come out. There is no water in there just diesel. double checked the relay and when cranking the engine over I get about 9 and a half volts. Its a little low but its the current what matters. that i cant measure as my meter only goes to 10 amps and the relay pulls 12 not including the initial spike. Pulled the return off the top of the injector. Turned it over about three to four revolutions. Had fuel from the pipe but not the injector. Also when cranking I can see fuel moving through the clear pipe. (the one in the pic in post 6 of the thread)
Going to borrow my uncles car in a minute and drive over to gloucester to grab a new battery. hopefully with a fresh new battery I can retest the relay to see if there is any difference.
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:03 pm |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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Just got home with new battery, what a trip that was. on the way back home i lost the clutch on the car i was borrowing. had to be towed home with a rope. I certainly not gunna do that again, good job i got spare underwear. That has got to be the scarest thing i have ever done! lets hope this new battery solves my problem.
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:58 am |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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Right, Bit of an update!
I went and got a new battery on Wednesday. I stuck in in charge to trickle charge to ensure it was topped up. The charger detected no issue with it (smart charger) and charged fine. Just stuck it on the car seeing as the weather has improved and straight away it comes up with eco mode. How can it still be in eco mode? Its a brand new fully charged battery? I definitely think this is something electrical. My gran suggested maybe my rear lights were doing something weird or not working hence the guy flashing me and would explain why Im having issues?
I pretty good with electronics but when it comes to adding the BSI and ECU etc in it gets beyond my limits. I am desperate to have this sorted. Without my car I cant get to university and my uncles car is broke too so i cant use that.
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:22 pm |
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Joined: Nov 27, 2010
Posts: 11520
Trade Rating: +10
Location: What's it to you? ? ?
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ECO mode will only disappear once the engine has started & ran.
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| Toyota C-HR GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid with JBL & Alcantara packs. | |
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:33 pm |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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Ah ok that makes sense. Maybe my battery isn't knackered then. That's ok as it was due for replacement and I can use the old one to power my radios. Vortech recommended I check the earth lead as he said people have had issues with them in the past. I have taken mine off, cleaned it off then reattached it. It hasn't made any difference but it was worth a try. its got to be something simple as there was no sign of issues, it just died!
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:21 pm |
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Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 328
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Lower Slaughter
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Ok some vortechs came over and plugged me into pp2000. Man oh man did I have some faults. Vortech will post the screen shots when he gets a chance but essentially there were one engine ecu fault which is the clutch switch (I knew about this one, fault had been rectified but not cleared). There were three for the instrument cluster, engine speed, coolant temp and vehicle speed not being read (just note however I have never had a single issue with the instrument cluster). There were several for the airbag system and one for the MFD which was +ve misssing. The MFD was however lit up and working fine, could this be because its in eco mode?
Didn't see any thing about cam or crank sensor like southwestchap suggested. Double checked all the fuses to make sure, this included the bsi too. The BSI was about the only thing that reported no issues. As I said before this must be an electrical fault of some kind.
Please guys, The last six months have been hell. I really need my car.
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| 2003 206 1.4 HDi (3 Door) LX - Cypress Green - KQM
2003 206 SW 2.0 HDI Grey | |
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