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Forums › The Car › 206 Problems › Need assistance - 206 constantly cuts out when slowing down |
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 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:59 pm |
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Joined: Jan 07, 2013
Posts: 10
Trade Rating: 0
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Still having issues.
Further info, around the same time this problem began the speedo stopped working and the exhaust has been breaking up. The silencer has definitely become a problem.
Could this be the cause? Perhaps a sensor in the exhaust system?
It won't happen if you potter around under 20mph. However, going beyond that speed and slowing down will almost always result in it cutting out.
Looking under the rocker box was a milky substance, which has been cleaned. Looks like this had gone into some of the pipework. The butterfly also required a good clean. Could something as simple as a blocked injector be causing this?
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:23 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Silencer breaking up cause excess back pressure but I would expect engine management system to control revs despite that.
However, it needs replacing as a possible cause especially if it is defective.
When the ICV was fitted was the hole that it fits into cleaned out with carb cleaner. it should have, If not do that.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:22 am |
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Joined: Jan 07, 2013
Posts: 10
Trade Rating: 0
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Then that is unlikely to be the issue then, as the revs don't appear to drop in any way. It's just under very particular circumstances the car will simply cut out. I don't understand the workings of a car so don't know the processes it goes through when slowing down. Otherwise I might have a clue.
We have cleaned the pipes and will be sticking some injector cleaner in there too.
If it were something as simple as being bunged up with dirt I expect we would experience lots of faltering from the engine. It doesn't mis-fire or splutter whilst ticking over.
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:44 am |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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If the car will run on the throttle when it would otherwise cut out means it's an idle control problem.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:22 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Your throttle pedal does not control tick over. Well some badly adjusted ones do but it shouldn't.
The way it should work:-
When you take your foot off the throttle pedal there are a few sensors that check if the car is moving or stationery, what load is on the engine and what revs it is doing.
The tick over speed is then controlled electronically by the cars brain (ecu) and that sends a signal to the ICV.
The ICV is a special electric motor that opens and closes a small airway by varying amounts to give very small changes in rpm.
An example of how the ECU and ICV work are:-
If the car is ticking over (no throttle applied) turning the steering wheel makes the power steering pump put a load on the engine. That load would make the revs go quite low. The ECU sees the revs start to drop so tells the ICV to open letting more air into the engine. This will keep the revs constant even though you haven't touched the throttle.
The same is done if you turn on the lights and heated rear screen. The load on the alternator would be enough to slow down your tick over. Again the ECU would see this, open the ICV and keep your tick over correct even though you have not touched tthe throttle.
A few old(ish) cars had a very basic system to increase rpm that was often only linked to air conditioning and the revs would rise on tick over if you switched the aircon on.
However, on most old cars the tick over was controlled by adjusting the cable and throttle stop to a fixed position. Loads on the engine would slow down the tick over unless you pressed the throttle.
Modern cars are no longer made that way.
Changinging the ICV but not cleaning the hole it fits into can leave crud in there that can prevent this part of the system working correctly.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:26 pm |
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Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage
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| kandlbarrett wrote: |
| If the car is ticking over (no throttle applied) turning the steering wheel makes the power steering pump put a load on the engine. That load would make the revs go quite low. The ECU sees the revs start to drop so tells the ICV to open letting more air into the engine. |
It's actually the change in hydraulic pressure picked up by the PAS pressure sensor that tells the ECU to increase engine speed not the reduction of revs.
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| 2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible. | |
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:31 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Opps - thank you. Revs still corrected by ICV though.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:55 pm |
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Joined: Jan 07, 2013
Posts: 10
Trade Rating: 0
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So this must be related to idle control? Edward, I'm not sure what you mean. No problems encountered when stationary. This happens only when moving and slowing down.
Between the ICV and the ECU there must be some disconnect as something is going wrong that causes the car to cut out. Unless there is another sensor or mechanism involved along the way.
From what I can gather, the exhaust issue and speedo not working aren't linked to this.
It starts back up again no problem. Usually it happens as I press the clutch to change gear, so I release the clutch and bump start the car. Going from 4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd you sometimes barely notice it.
The garage apparently replaced the ICV. I would think cleaning it would be an obvious thing for them to do. Perhaps they weren't being truthful.
Thank you for trying to explain this to me.
I took it to a Peugeot dealer who updated the software but reported no faults. What would you suggest doing next considering the above?
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:40 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Does the car misfire at all or just cut out.
It may be worth cleaning or changing the MAP sensor but I hate just replacing components.
Just because the ICV is new doesn't mean it is a good one.
I would be inclined to return it to the garage and tell them the work they did and you paid for has not fixed it and you think the new ICV is defective. Get them to fit another - free - and clean where it fits into.
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:50 am |
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Joined: Jan 07, 2013
Posts: 10
Trade Rating: 0
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After going to Peugeot for a diagnostic check and spending 2 weeks in a garage without success we have finally solved this problem.
The clue was that the speedo stopped working at the same time...
The speed sensor was not connected all this time, it simply wasn't connected or plugged in. Someone got up on some ramps (at a difference garage) took a look at, I think, the gearbox housing, and immediately noticed this wasn't right.
All sorted. Hope this helps someone else.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:44 pm |
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Joined: Jan 15, 2013
Posts: 244
Trade Rating: 0
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Just thought id mention when you say rocker box do you mean the head and the cover that covers the cams etc???because if u do and uve got milky substance thats a bigger problem alltogether...if thats what you meant???the head gasket is likely blown if you are getting this milky s**t inside the engine at all...
As fir the rev drop off when decelerating its a common fault that has been baffling peugeot for years and im not sure but there's still no definative remedy advised by them...unless ive missed that info being issued?
But lets hope your fix is the right one...
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:09 pm |
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Joined: Jan 07, 2013
Posts: 10
Trade Rating: 0
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It has been resolved it seems.
Eddie, that is where I mean. There is no other sign of a head gasket issue.
One elderly owner before who had only clocked up 50,000 miles in 9 years. Thinking the many short runs meant the car never warmed up properly, leaving condensation to form and oil to mix with water.
Hoping that's all this is.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:59 pm |
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Joined: Jan 15, 2013
Posts: 244
Trade Rating: 0
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I have to agree but with an added air of caution tho..when i bought my 137 i found a little white crud under the oul filler cap and the dealer assured me that the engine was fine so i made the seller agree to specify a refund or repair if the head was to blow which fortunately it didnt. It was just condensation it seems..like yours hopefully..
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