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tekzwob

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:12 pm

Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0

Hi there, I had this on another forum but they suggested I come here as you know your 206's apparently.

Here goes:

Hi there,

My dads peugeot 206 GTi cut out while driving up a hill. No noise or nonsense, no immediately visible damage. It instantly cut out and I crawled to a stop.

It cranked and turned over but does not start.

Timeline:

Immediate tests were: Put a gallon of fuel in in case fuel indicator had stopped working, no change. Listened for the fuel pump priming and could hear it started up.

Used easy start, it started the engine, so checked the fuel line. Fuel was pumping up to the rails (disconnected the fuel line at the rails and turned over the engine, fuel pumped out sufficiently).

Took to local garage: I think they were too busy or not arsed to deal with it, they phoned and said they couldn't diagnose the problem.

Took it to Peugeot dealership. They said there was oil/water around the spark area or something of that affect, they also said the oil breather tube needs replacing (it does, its clean snapped in half, but I doubt this will cause the engine to not start). They said it needed new spark plugs and if that didn't work a new coil pack and charged us £50. The quote for the spark plugs and coilpack plus labour £350. I wasn't sold on this due to the car starting with easy start, the only remote way this could happen in my limited knowledge is if the timing was out. And besides the quote was far too much for removing a few bolts. They said they dried the area although there are holes near where the spark plugs go in that seemed have dark murky water or something in.

Towed car home. It's been raining today so couldn't do much and I ran into a few problems. I checked the spark plugs, they look brand new, I guess my dad must of taken it for a service fairly recently. I couldn't check the coolant, I couldn't see through the reservoir but it looks empty, I hope he hasn't been driving it empty. I'm guessing engine would of blown with quite a bit of noise and chaos if this was the case instead of the cut out I experienced.

I'm fairly certain this is probably a fuel injector problem but to be certain I thought I'd cover the ignition first, I wanted to take the coil pack off and ground the spark plugs to the engine bay but it's more of a coil rail on this car, how do you guys usually do this? The spark plugs don't really clip into the coil rail, it's more it's pushed into it by torqing the bolts. So I laid the coilpack on the engine but couldn't find a place to rest/ground the plugs, and I was concerned that as the plugs don't clip in to the coil rail the plugs might not make contact with the coilpack. Also, I couldn't find a fuse box layout diagram, I wanted to disconnect the fuel system by removing the fuel pump fuse before checking the spark plugs for spark. Could anyone show me a diagram?

My plan is to test for spark, if there is spark which I'm fairly certain there is then I'm going to probably replace the fuel injectors. I was told that fuel injectors have a chip that communicated with the ecu, is this chip on the fuel injector rail as I want to rule this out too?

Last thing I'll do is go out and buy a compression tester.

Lat bits of info: The battery has now died so will have to charge it first. I'm concerned that the engine is probably flooded with fuel too with so many people cranking it over the last few days, will holding the throttle while turning over sort this?

The car had erratic idle for some time before this happened, may be unrelated but thought I'd mention it. I thought it was probably the MAF or ICV needing a clean, mentioned it to my dad but he's not a car person.

Any thoughts, ideas or anything would be greatly appreciated.

There is a small discussion with one member with a bit of added information, I hope linking to there is allowed, if not please notify me and I will rectify: pscuk.net/threads/7722...post670343

Steve206

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:17 pm

Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2719
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK

If Peugeot said coil pack, I'd go with that first. Also check your earth points. Especially the one on the gearbox. Did Peugeot give you any fault codes?


	Work in Progress

mattymj

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:21 pm

Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 729
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Norfolk

Any engine management lights? Was the fuel filter changed if it's been serviced? Think simple before spending out The coolant reservoirs are hard to see into. Stupid design I think. I rock the car to see movement. What spark plugs were used? I manually cleaned my injectors. Quite an easy job with some carb cleaner. Ask for a 206 owner locally to borrow a coil pack just to check the starting

broadblaster

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:39 pm

Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1025
Trade Rating: +1
Location: south coast

ah glad you found your way over here mate the lads on here know there ways round a 206 so if any can help you they will. if any have not read the link the car is a 99 non plexed 138 gti.


	on a back road playing

tekzwob

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:59 pm

Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0

It's kap garage in Kent, they are a Renault/peugeot/citroen dealership so I'm not sure how specialised they are but it's the only one around these parts.

I'm dubious about the coil pack, I'm not sure how they got to that conclusion, there exact words were, change the spark plugs, if that doesn't work try the coil pack. They didn't mention any codes, they should of pulled the codes really so I'll contact them and ask come Monday if not sorted by then.

Engine light is on, that's all. (The one shaped like an engine).

Could you explain the gearbox earth and how that would stop the car starting, bare in mind it starts with easy start so I thought that rules out transmission and ignition apart from maybe timing?

I have checked the sparks, they are the correct super spark boschs I googled them extensively, they look very clean.

I'm going to assume the fuel filter wasn't changed as they rarely do it unless your standing next to them round here and my dad doesn't know a thing about cars. I haven't checked the fuel pressure with a gauge but from visibly watching it squirt out of the fuel lines it looks pressured enough. I don't have a guage at the moment but will come to that when other things have been ruled out.

For instance, I want to rule out no spark first as it starts with easy start I think its fair to say there will be spark, I'll check its a good quality spark though. Could you explain how you would do that with Peugeot 206 gtis please as the coil rail kind of hinders things. I plan to ground the plugs to the battery with jump leads and connect 1 spark plug at a time to the coilpack outside of the engine and crank the car and observe the spark but it looks to me that the coil pack/rail is connected to the plugs by the pressure of being bolted down only?

I think this is an important first step to rule out?

Leegsi

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:13 pm

Joined: Apr 24, 2013
Posts: 267
Trade Rating: +1
Location: Near Portsmouth

If it starts with easy start there is a spark. I would go for crank sensor as that will tell the engine when to fire the injectors (Ie fuel). See if you can get the codes read by someone.

tekzwob

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:58 pm

Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0

I was under the impression that a faulty crank shaft sensor would also cause no spark, so if there's spark that can be ruled out?

macj

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:26 am

Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex

There should be a fault code if the EML is on.... this would point you in the right direction. I am not sure what fires up the injectors but you have the cam sensor and crank sensor for starters. There is the other issue of MAF sensor...... Mac Tools do a good code reader which I use for about £60. A very good investment for a Pug owner

tekzwob

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:35 am

Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0

Thanks macj, unfortunately, it's not my car an the consensus is to diagnose and fix it cheaply, as we're getting a new car anyway. The Pug is in a bad condition regardless so isn't really worth any money spent on it. I think I can get it diagnosed and working though as I personally think the injector rails or one of the sensors just needs replacing. There is spark, there is air, it must either be timing or more likely a fueling problem.

I'll call the dealership and see if they even tried pulling codes off and if yes, what they are. They didn't mention it on the diagnoses report though.

I had read that the crank sensor would stop fuel injectors and also spark, so if there's spark, then it's most probably not that. Is this true? I think the cam sensor can cause a no fuel, but spark condition though? I'm not quite sure how these parts work but I do know they are cheap to replace. Cheaper than a fuel rail/injectors anyhow.

macj

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:47 am

Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 3085
Trade Rating: +12
Location: Essex

Sensors would be my first choice. I have heard of issues with engine temp sensor giving an incorrect reading but it usually overfuels rather than cuts it out totally. I am in Essex but its still a little to far for me to come and plug in to read them I am sorry to say. Get a local garage who have a Solus or code reader to give it a go.... usually around £20-25.

Edward

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:52 am

Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 7045
Trade Rating: +5
Location: In the garage

Coil packs don't tend to stop the car dead. Open the oil filler while the engine is being turned over. Does the camshaft turn? Dodgy crank sensor would stop the engine. Camshaft sensor won't stop the engine. You can even run with it disconnected.


	2001 GTi 138, Bilstein Sprint dampers, H&R springs, 21mm Peugeot Sport torsion bars, 22mm rear ARB, Peugeot Sport Group A wishbones, 283mm discs, Goodridge stainless hoses, Maniflow 304 grade 4-2-1 2.5" manifold and system, 200 cell cat, Richard Longman head, 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, 9.5mm TB spacers, 90mm air horns, Jenvey throttle linkage, Jenvey fuel rail, Aeromotive and Goodridge fuel fittings and braided hose, ITG sausage filter, Radtec custom radiator, Piper Ultimate Road cams, Piper vernier pulleys, Omex 600 ECU. Saxo electric PAS pump, Vibra Technics engine mounts. Samco coolant hoses, TTV steel flywheel, 4.76 final drive ratio, 307 CC 180 ratios. 2019 BMW 530i. 2017 Mercedes C300 convertible.

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